He Just Can’t Win

March 26th, 2010
Joel Glazer

Joel Glazer

For weeks if not months, many in the local Fourth Estate have grumbled and kvetched about why no one from Team Glazer would come from behind their shroud of secrecy all season, other than to shoot down wild and outrageous financial allegations by a morning radio host who at best has a long track record of shaky credibility.

So what happens when Bucs co-chairman Joel Glazer appears for his annual (mandatory) press briefing at the spring NFL meetings this past week?

He gets hammered again.

Not so much by the Fourth Estate, but by fans, so notes Tampa Tribune columnist Joe Henderson.

These days, Joel Glazer could say “good morning” and ask how your wife and kids are doing and he’d get ripped for it. That’s a fact of life when your football team just finished 3-13 and many of its fans perceive you care more about an English soccer club than you do about them.

So no one can be surprised at the overwhelmingly negative reaction fans had when the co-chairman of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers warned Wednesday of impending home blackouts in the upcoming season.

And when Glazer defended himself against the wide-spread perception that he’s cheap, he basically got ridiculed.

This was almost predictable. Many Bucs fans foam at the mouth at the mere mention of Raheem the Dream. They are highly suspicious of Mark Dominik. So when Glazer noted how the Bucs were staying the course and building through the draft and, oh by the way, don’t ignore the possibility of blackouts, it seemed only natural how the fans would react.

Short of Glazer saying he was going to outspend the entire NFC East on player salaries and basically hand Dominik a blank check for players, the fans were going to seeth.

No matter how sound or logical Glazer’s information may (or may not) have been, fans want their owner to be George Steinbrenner, or worse, Dan Snyder.

One only needs to listen to sports radio the way Rays fans whine about Stu Sternberg not spending any money despite the fact the Rays have one of baseball’s best teams. Yet many of  these same fans won’t even drive 20 minutes across a bridge to see the team play.

Fans wanted to hear Glazer say that his checkbook is bottomless for salaries since there is no salary cap.

Was the backlash on Glazer fair? No. 

Was the backlash on Glazer predictable? Yes.

56 Responses to “He Just Can’t Win”

  1. justin F Says:

    i could go on a hour long typing rant right here but i wont im anti glazer till they spend money or sell the team i helped pay for rayjay and one buc place with my tax dollars asking for owners who care is not that much

  2. maddog55 Says:

    What about when they move the team becuase they finally get so sick of dumb ass fans trashing them for every move the make or don’t make?

    You’re obvious not a business owner. You don’t just spend to spend, you look for value and return on investment.

  3. Kirk Says:

    It is too bad that stuff happens, but in this economy people will vent where ever they can. Buc fans feel jusitified in pissing on the owners leg for not investing his money the way they want him to. There are so many things going on in this country that are beyond our control (politicians & economy), why the hell not beat up on the owners of your favorite sports team. What else do we have? I do believe, for me, it is a businees decision. I can’t afford to invest my money on a team the doesn’t seem to have anything to return on that investment. If the games are blacked out, so be it. I will listen on the radio. I did this in the early years and did just fine. The Buccaneers will always be my team, but I will not invest my money or my time if they are not willing to invest their money.

  4. nick Says:

    Maybe we just have the whiniest fans in all of sports. Whine about the Rays when their owner tells us he has to cut payroll because the fans don’t show up. Whine about the Bucs when the owner tells us he’s trying to build a long term winner.

  5. Jake Says:

    Talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words. Put a better product on the field NOW, not 5 years from now and us naysayers and skeptics will pipe down!

  6. BigMacAttack Says:

    This is what happens when you treat “WE THE PEOPLE” like they are stupid, when you think that you know what is best for them;
    when you don’t listen to their voices;
    when you practice quiet arrogance;
    when you conduct secret backroom deals;

    People are sick of this crap, sick of ignorant politicians, sick of Executives paying themselves $Billions in bonuses when their publicly held companies lose money. The Glazers timing could not have been worse, because their story is all too familiar in what’s going on these days.

    As Ralph Kramden says “One of these days Alice, POW!!!”

  7. JimBuc Says:

    justin F — if the source of your ire is that you helped pay for RayJay then should be on the County Commissioner’s blog not a Buc blog.

  8. Rob Says:

    Hard to put a better product on the field NOW dumbass since we drafted horribly from 2004 till Gruden was canned. Now it’s gonna take a couple seasons to build this thing back up. All you idiots think your entitled or something. Did you lose your security blanket of Mediocrity and pretty Coach. Worst Fans in the NFL.

  9. Joe Says:

    Maybe we just have the whiniest fans in all of sports. Whine about the Rays when their owner tells us he has to cut payroll because the fans don’t show up.

    You may be on to something Nick, at least as far as Rays “fans” are concerned.

  10. justin F Says:

    whenever the fan base goes from 100 thousand people on season ticket waiting list to blackouts the owners are not doing something right

  11. nick Says:

    Glazer got some flack for saying he didn’t want a 9-7 team full of duct tape to get them by. But I agree. The last time we finished 9-7 we got bounced at home in the playoffs in front of 50% Giants fans. I wouldn’t want that to happen again either. Bucs fans are lucky I’m not the owner. I’d be totally calling them out.

  12. Eric Says:

    The Glazer’s are very much misunderstood and underappreciated for their tireless commitment to put the best possible product on the field for the shareholders.

    And, of course, money is no object as they have said.

    After they add thier considerable expertise in the upcoming draft, to the best personnel office ever assembled, the Dream’s Dynasty of above 9-7 every year and Super Bowl contention must be right around the corner.

    I for one wish to extend my heartfelt apology for ever doubting them in any way.

    Does anyone have the number to the season ticket office?

  13. Fred Says:

    Joe – Enough with the ass-kissing. Let’s be real…..the Glazers are cheap pricks with a vague understanding of franchise management. This franchise was set up to consistently contend for the NFC South, but the Glazers’ hasty decision making has left the team with no real identity or future. Every fanchise needs to rebuild, but it’s impossible to rebuild when the foundation in crumbled. It’s time for a new ownership group will embrace the fans and put together a long-term plan that includes building through the draft and bringing in veteran free-agents who are leaders on and off the field.

  14. Eric Says:

    Hey i was watching the NFL network last evening, and they had the ranking of the “most motivational NFL coaches in history”.

    Three guesses who was listed as number 3.

  15. Joe Says:

    i was watching the NFL network

    Eric is a man!

    Joe’s seen that episode maybe a dozen times. Love Mike North.


    “After Lombardi — DITKA!”

  16. DAve Says:

    The optimist says:
    The Man U deal hurt them but not completely They are going with a youth movement because, financially they had to .. partially, and they were sick of piecing together a 9-7 team with suspect free agents under Gruden and Allen. They are trying to build the core of the team through the draft last year and this year and NEXT year will be poised to fill in holes with free agents who can help when it is the best free agent class in 15 years.

    The pessimist says:
    They haven’t spent in 5 years, are broke and need to seel one of the teams and soon.

    Personally, I think it is somewhere in between and the fans should give this team and this plan this year and part of next because it looks like a 3 year rebuilding process.

    Great point on the Rays though.

    I CAN NOT STAND hearing people bitch about them. The new owners of the RAYS have done EVERYTHING correct and fans still complain and whine and bitch and don’t show up. We have one of the top 5 best teams in baseball going on the third year in a row. the attendance has gone up each of the last couple years, but it is still one of the lowest in baseball. The salaries have doubled and the nucleus of the team is mostly signed on for the long run. there is nothing more they can do.

    If the Rays fans don’t show up this year, I am afraid that team will be moved within 2-3 years, and not to a new stadium in the Tampa area.

  17. DAve Says:

    “This franchise was set up to consistently contend for the NFC South”

    When exactly? After the SB run? The team fell apart. It was too many free agents all at once for a one year ride. The core was getting older and the draft picks were gone that would have replaced them. Add to that too many years of bad drafts.

    What Gruden did the last few years was basically stitch together a .500 team that did good with a weak schedule and struggle with a tougher one.

    They decided to wipe it clean and do a 3 year building process.

    The problem is MANY of you have the attention span of a gnat nowadays and never think your team has to rebuild. Sure they could have done it a little more subtle, but some of it absolutely has to do with finances and the lack of the CBA shortly.

    The Glazers have been very good for this team. I am willing to give this rebuilding process this draft and next years free agency to see how it unfolds before I pull the plug on them.

  18. Eric Says:

    I dunno, I think that crticism of Gruden is only partially true. He did make a considerable effort to rebuild the offensive line, and played younger players to do so.

    Plus, don’t forget a rookie named Cadillac was largely responsible for the 2005 NFC South title.

    Heck even the blocking icon had a great rookie year under Gruden.

    Now, I agree that some draft choices were not good such as Adams and Dexter Jackson. But I just heard the Dream praise three young linebackers which Gruden had on the team.

    So, I think it is fairer to say that Gruden did want to draft some young players for the future, but perhaps made some bad choices selecting those players.

    The Glazers bear some responsibility for the decline also, but I doubt they would look in the mirror and admit it.

  19. Eric Says:


    i was a tad dissapointed they didn’t have Lou Saban and “They are killing me whitey, they are killing me” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Eric S Says:

    I honestly don’t hear a lot of whining from Rays fans about finances. I hear a lot more whining about the drive across the bay to see the team. That always ticks me off. It is one of the easiest stadiums to get to and out of. I have no sympathy for those Tampa idiots who whine about that. They can go screw themselves.

    The Glazers are to blame for most of this mess. Bruce Allen expected the wallet to be open in 2007-08 and he got a rude awakening. That killed those teams ability to compete. Especially when Allen didn’t get some DL help for 2008. I put all of the blame on the Glazers for that. I just have a feeling that the Glazers did put a stop to spending on Allen. Here he expected to have the ability to spend after a couple of years in salary cap hell courtesy of Rich McKay, but then having a stop sign put up must have been deflating.

    The Rays and the Bucs are nothing alike. The Rays get very little in TV and stadium revenue. The Bucs get a ton of money from TV and they have one of the best stadium deals in the NFL. They have money flowing out of their asses, but still they don’t spend. The Rays have a iron clad contract with the Trop, so they ain’t moving any time soon. Hopefully they do get a new stadium built within this decade.

    I have no sympathy for the Glazers. None. They put themselves in this precarious situation because they wanted the most prestigious team in the world. And even when they were “good” owners, they were still snakes. They held the city of Tampa until they got that great stadium deal built on tax payer dollars. They waited several years to build the new Bucs complex after year after year of promising it. I just don’t trust them. I never have. They always have their hand out.

  21. Joe Says:

    I hear a lot more whining about the drive across the bay to see the team. That always ticks me off.

    When Joe hears that crap he just wants to choke someone.

    If one can’t drive across a bridge to see a game, just admit you’re not a fan and quit trying to con people. Most of these same “fans” don’t blink an eye about driving to Gainesville or Tallahassee to see a football game but whine like children about driving 20 minutes to see a ballgame.

    Joe would drive to Naples or Orlando to see a game. If you are a fan, the drive is insignificant.

    Joe rarely hears anyone outside of Tampa complaining about driving to Bucs or Bolts games.

  22. Jake Says:

    @Rob..maybe if they participated a bit in free agency they could put a better product on the field NOW dumbass!

  23. JimBuc Says:

    Ahhhh . . . the classic conspiracy theory surfaces:

    “Bruce Allen expected the wallet to be open in 2007-08 and he got a rude awakening. That killed those teams ability to compete. Especially when Allen didn’t get some DL help for 2008. I put all of the blame on the Glazers for that. I just have a feeling that the Glazers did put a stop to spending on Allen. Here he expected to have the ability to spend after a couple of years in salary cap hell courtesy of Rich McKay, but then having a stop sign put up must have been deflating.”

  24. buckeyebob Says:

    Do you not see why they do not want to give interviews…its a no win for them.

  25. Nick Says:

    Joe, PLEASE give me a break, the distance between Jerry Jones, George Steinbrenner and the Glazers right now is like the Grand Canyon. Everyone in the media that has a stake in covering the Bucs say the Glazers are taking the prudent approach while the fan base knows the reality. If the owners of the Steelers, Patriots or Cowboys said “wait for 5 years while we tear this team down and rebuild it” would want their owners on a silver platter. So obviously the Glazers are completely to blame that their drafts have been poor the last 5 years. THEY ARE THE ONES WHO HIRED THE SCOUTING STAFF!!!!! Now instead of signing a few high priced free agents (Anquan Boldin etc etc etc) which would help Josh Freemans development they say find a receiver in the draft???? Ask the Detroit Lions how well that works out. I am tired of the Tribune and this website defending the CHEAP GLAZERS!!! They are just saving money not striving for excellence PLEASE DON”T TREAT THE FANS LIKE FOOLS!!!!!!

  26. Joe Says:


    Joe has written this countless times: Joe is convinced many — granted, not all — NFL teams are counting their nickels is due to the looming lockout, the Bucs included. It’s kind of hard to justify paying a guy a massive signing bonus if he isn’t going to play next year.

    Joe will confess he is very suspicious of what the Bucs are going to do at wide receiver, and has written as much in past weeks.

  27. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    Nick, one more thing. Give me a break, too. Joe doesn’t sit here and defend the Glazers. In fact, Joe made much of your point here yesterday. https://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=26484

    Joe just spits out what he’s thinking at the moment. In this case, it was that Glazer got clobbered for saying he wants to win a title without hitting free agency till it can put them over the top. ..Agreee with him or not, he might not have deserved all the beating. That was the post.

  28. Eric S Says:

    JimBuc-I stand completely by what I said. Allen said that they would spend in those two years. So what happened? The Glazers happened. I have no sympathy at all for them. They put themselves in this bind.

  29. Eric Says:

    Hey if they do have a lockout it might help us. We had a decent scab team last time. John Reeves at QB and everything.

    As i recall we picked up a couple of wins.

  30. Tom Says:

    :::Thinks the title of this post should be “He Chooses Not To Win” rather than “He Just Can’t Win”:::

  31. Eric Says:

    On a quick break form hilarity, about the Glazers.

    My bottom line is they lost all semblence of credibility when they hired Raheem Morris as the coach of the Buccaneers. Owners committed to winning don’t make those kind of inexplicable choices.

    All the rest is window dressing, spending, not spending, whatever.

    No one can convince me that Morris was the best candidate for that job, which is the most important one IMO.

    So, I got no use for whatever these clowns say.

  32. JimBuc Says:

    Eric — I completely get your Gru/Allen conspiracy theory. Let me give it a shot. Gru/Allen were not actually fired. Had nothin to do w G. Adams or Dexter Jackson or a late season collapse, age of player, mediocrity. NOpe none of that actually came into play.

    In reality, Gru/Allen quit and they quit because they learned that the Bucs would not spend money. The problem was that if they quit they would have lost their salaries so they came up with a plan. They decided not to quit, but instead to convince the team — the one that would not spend money — to fire them. That way they would continue to keep their salaries even if it mean the team — the one that would not spend money– would have to pay twice as much for coach and GM. So when they sprung their idea on the Bucs — the team that would not spend money — the Bucs said, “good idea, don’t quit! We will fire you so that we have to continue to pay you and the next coach and GM! Great idea Gru and Allen!!”

    Yeah, that’s the ticket. Definitely what happened.

  33. Eric Says:


    as I have previously stated the firing of Gruden, while I disagree with it, I can accept.

    I don’t think you are being fair to the full body of Gruden’s work, but that is beside the point. The trophy case speaks for itself.

    Its the hiring of Raheem Morris that is not defensible.

    Of course the Glazers saved money firing Gruden. He would have insisted on signing AB. Brooks and other veterans would still be on the team. Other free agents would have been brought in.

    I don’t think it is even arguable that the net result of firing Gruden saved money, even taking into account having to pay his salary. But that kind of analysis it clearly beyond your abilities. You focus only on having to pay Gruden’s salary, which is not the only factor.

    Now, are you ever going to answer my question from yesterday?

    Let me refresh your memory, because reading comprehension is not your thing.

    You are given an NFL franchise. Money is not an issue.

    Your head coaching possibbilites are:

    A. Jon Gruden
    B. Bill Cowher
    C. Mike Shanahan
    D. Raheem Morris.

    Please chose one.

  34. Nick Says:

    Eric you forgot about the great hiring of Mark Dominick!!! So lets see they are committed to winning and yet they hire two complete rookies to run their front office and head coaching job and with this draft these rookies will shape the face of the franchise for years?? Thats a real commitment to winning??? Nooooo thats saving money plain and simple. Joe, I know what you are going to say and yes I know you have pointed this point out so I won’t blame you for taking the Glazers side on this issue. Joe I know you look at both sides I guess I got worked up over that headline. But really the headline is good because I can’t see the Glazers or their crew winning anytime soon! Maybe in 5 years after this ridiculous rebuilding effort that was never admitted to until now.

  35. Eric S Says:

    You are going just a tad overboard JimBuc. I actually was fine with the Gruden firing. The team looked horrible in those last 4 games and his Bucs tenure had been way too rollercoaster like. I do think he is a good coach. I actually think he was a better coach in Oakland. For whatever reason his offenses in TB never took off like they did in Oak.

    D. Jackson draft pick was horrible to say the least. G. Adams may have been more of a Kiffin pick than a Gruden/Allen. But as the other Eric has stated, Gruden did bring the Super Bowl to TB. That’s something that Dungy never did (I also was in favor of Dungy’s firing).

    I know you were being a complete smartass with your comments JimBuc, but I was being serious. Something stopped Allen from spending in those last few years. But I guess we will probably never know.

    I also am in complete agreement about the Rah hiring that Eric has commented on. That was one of the worst moves that the Glazers have done. Put a guy who was completely and utterly unprepared for the job in the head coaching position. He had never been a coordinator unlike Dungy who was one for several years. That hiring screamed of being cheap. They had to still pay off Gruden/Allen and they made it even worse by hiring this clown. I’ve already made my feelings known on who they should have hired. But that is over and done with and we have to be stuck with the cheerleader and Dominik for another year and possibly more. If the cheerleader doesn’t win at least 7 games this season, he should be fired with the schedule that the Bucs have.

  36. JimBuc Says:

    Wow, two Erics. Sensory overload. Couple things without getting off topic too much. I am a Gruden fan but he and Allen (100% a package) were fired for performance, not money. One Eric says the Bucs saved money by firing Gruden, other that it cost them. I guess you guys can work that out betwen yourselves. To the one Eric who say the Bucs saved $ becasue Gruden would have insited on signing AB etc., how will that theory stand up when the Bucs sign someone like Suh or McCoy to a big guaranteed contract, to be followed by a 2a and 2b etc.? Not sure your argument makes sense, but hey.

    On the Morris hiring, I said to one Eric (not sure which) on another thread that there is an argument that Morris’ hiring was all about saving money. That may be right, but that does not mean it was wrong under the circumstances: namely, a potential lockout. Why would the Glazers, who were already starting late, go out and find some big name coach (assuming the big name coach would even come here) who would want to totally retool the team DESPITE a possible lockout. That is a potential double negative. Potentially paying a coach and entire new coaching staff to do nothing and having to sign new players to deals when most teams would want to sit tight or at least sign only short deals.

    It is only fans that make all decisions in a vaccum (i.e. you always get the best available- period). Teams actually have to consider other issues. If the Morris hiring was all about money, I think it was reasonable under the circumstances. Not what the fans want, but . . .

    What if it was not about money? Then you have Eric’s hypothetical, which like most hypotheticals is based on a false premise. In a vaccum, no one would take Morris over any of the other names. But in the real world there are two reasonable reasons to take him (probably more). One, maybe they think he has potential. Pretty sure Dungy was passed over many times before he became a coach here. Not a lot of happy people when Dungy was named. Worked out OK. Not comparing the two just saying that the list is one inexperienced guy against three household names. Silly really. No one would ever advance by that standard.

    Second, maybe he was Dominik’s choice and he was a good fit because he would accept a cheap contract and a short-term. Again, not good for the fans, but a valid reason for a team owner.

    Erics are very fatiguing . . .

  37. Eric Says:

    Too complicated for this Eric.

    IMO Morris completely sucks.

    I really don’t care about the whys ifs and buts or if the Glazer boys want to save money or not, or hunker down for a strike, or enjoy the gay soccer team instead, or whatever. Since I can’t read their minds I go with their actions, which are either caused by some other factors such as finances or are just plane old stupid.

    They seem to have confidence in the Raheem the Dream. I suppose time will tell.

  38. Louie Says:

    The reason the Bucs don’t have a big-name coach is because big-name coach wouldn’t put up with with the Glazerhouse’s spending freeze. For example, after 2009 when there was talk of Cowher coming here, he was only going to come if the Glazerhouse’s agreed to open the checkbook.

    Gruden and Allen were fired primarily because they weren’t going to put up with the lack of spending any longer. A week before they were fired Allen publicly said they were going to spend the $30M. So, by firing Gruden/Allen, the Glazerhouse’s did save a lot of money — $30M vs. Gruden/Allen’s salary through 2010. Glazerhouses got lucky that the Bucs lost those last 4 games of the season because it made it easy from a PR standpoint to fire them.

    I’m hoping (PRAYING) the Glazerhouses will start spending again after 2011 or whenever the CBA deal is done. At that point, if Morris and Dominik haven’t turned things around, then they’re gone and will be replaced some big-names. Morris and Dominik were hired because they were cheap and are expendable once the dust clears on the CBA. If they by some miracle win, then that’s a bonus for the Glazerhouse’s, but I think “the plan” is to dump them when it’s time to spend money again.

  39. JimBuc Says:


    This is just hillarious:

    “Gruden and Allen were fired primarily because they weren’t going to put up with the lack of spending any longer”

    Wow . . . maybe topped by this:

    “Glazerhouses got lucky that the Bucs lost those last 4 games of the season because it made it easy from a PR standpoint to fire them.”

    You might want to get some fresh air

  40. Eric S Says:

    The Glazers still had to pay Gruden/Allen after firing them. I think Gruden had several years left on his contract and Allen had at least a couple. I think that had a lot to do with the Glazers hiring Rah because he didn’t cost much. Cowher would have cost an arm and a leg. Couple that with paying Gruden, Allen and the kick ball debt and presto you hire the neophyte. I don’t have much hope for this season. But I did renew my season tickets, so you can’t say I am not supporting the team. I am just getting a bit frustrated by the whole organization.

  41. Louie Says:

    @JimBuc: OK Einstein, the only thing you’ve done is ridicule the Eric’s and me. You haven’t said a single thing to dispute what we’ve said.

    Do you really think Gruden would have kept his mouth shut through all this? Hell NO! He would have been in the press bitching that the Glazerhouses aren’t spending any money. The Glazerhoue’s couldn’t control him, so they had to get rid of him.

    In fact, no big-name coach would sit quietly for that. They are big-name coaches because they win and you can’t win in this league by having the lowest payroll in the league since 2004.

    Ridicule that!

  42. JimBuc Says:

    Louie — if you honestly think the Glazers conspired to get rid of Gruden because he would make waves over finances, well . . . never mind

  43. JimBuc Says:

    Louie — while the Glazers were refusing to spend money, having the lowest payroll in the league and plotting to dump Gruden, they signed Gaines Adams to a $46 million dollar contract with an $18 mil guarantee. How did that work out for them? How about Michael Clayton, Stovall, Dexter Jackson etc. Do you give any consider ation to what Glazer said about lacking players to re-sign to big contracts?

    Gaines Adams was a 4th overall in 2007 and got $46 mil. How will you explain the Glazers spending habits is this year they sign Suh or McCoy to a $54 mil/$28 mil guaranteed contract?

  44. Louie Says:

    @JimBuc: Have you ever heard of the salary cap floor? Prior to this year, they HAD to spend a minimum amount of money on players. They clearly overspent for Clayton, but it helped them reach the floor. Notice this year they are hardly spending any money. Ruud and Penn we only given RFA tenders and AB was cut loose altogether — no long term deals for any existing players this year.

    How will I explain Suh or McCoy contracts? That’s a no-brainer — they HAVE TO sign their draft picks. Duh! How would it look if they drafted players, but didn’t sign them???!!! Lately, the only money they spend is money they HAVE TO spend.

    I’m not saying they conspired to fire Gruden. I’m just saying it worked out conveniently for them to be able to get rid of a major obstacle to their current plan.

    Does “the plan” make sense from a business standpoint, probably. However, it’s not a plan that makes winning the #1 priority.

    Any more questions?

  45. Eric Says:

    Websters defines a “plan” as any procedure used to achieve an objective.

    So, the key is understanding what the objective is of our good friends the Glazers.

    I think that is a very open question.

  46. JimBuc Says:

    OK, I’ll bite: what do you guys think the objective of the Glazers is?

    (this should be good)

  47. Tom Says:


    I too thought it was funny that you were discussing the contract Gaines Adams received as evidence the Glazers would spend money. I mean, they could’ve drafted him and not signed him but since the whole Bo Jackson incident a few decades ago the bad press would outweigh any financial benefit. Huge irony about that? Adams was traded after 2.5 years, so the Glazers got off the hook for the remainder of the deal. Lucky them.

    Louie is right, and a point I try to make often is that all teams must hit 80% of the salary cap (when it’s in effect). So all those mediocre players the Bucs signed were for a purpose, they weren’t so the Bucs could be fighting the Saints to win the NFC South. You don’t hire a rookie HC and GM who are both in their early 30’s if you want to do that unless they are incredibly special. And, I think Dominik’s FA signings proved he is “special” but not the way you’d want to be.

  48. Eric Says:


    Well, if i was answering this question a few years ago I would say the Glazers were clearly among the best owners in the league, whose objective and committment was to produce a championship team.

    Who can forget the image of Glazer Senior marching into Rah Jah with the Vince Lombardi Trophy raised above his head? Effectively, the Glazers saved the Tampa Bay Bucs.

    Those Glazers did things like try and hire Parcells, fired Dungy and searched the Globe to find the best possible coach to replace him even if it meant big money and draft choices, Rice trade, Key trade, etc. etc. etc.

    Hoewever, their recent efforts seem to reflect a less than full committment to winning championships. Staying near the bottom of the league in payroll for five years for example. Dropping even further to the absolute bottom once the salary cap spending requirements were lifted is another.

    Then they replace the head coach, who was a proven winner, with an unproven and inexperienced Raheem the Dream. Mr. Dominik was curiously promoted to GM, despite his strong participation in what would later be termed “cancerous drafts”. To my knowledge not another living soul was interviewed or considered for these two critical positions.

    Once the new regime was in place, one buc place made it very clear – the team was not “re-building” they won nine games the year before. Rah repeatedly stated “we just need to learn to finish”.

    Currently, the same regime proclaims from the mountain tops they are rebuilding, with a plan that relies almost exclusively on the NFL draft and the only reason to go to games is to “watch the growth”. Yet, on the current roster, the wide receiver corp for the young franchise QB is a total joke to even the casual NFL fan. The teams leading receiver was unsigned.

    So, I think the recent actions of the Glazers calls their objectives into question. Perhaps they would “like” to win. But IMO they fall well short of their previous strong committment to winning. Big difference between the two.

    Then again, they could just be really stupid and utterly clueless and actually believe in their plan, and that they have have hired the most qualified people to implement it.

    Or, perhaps the grand plan will work, and critics like me are the clueless ones, and the promised 10-12 year super competitive always above nine wins “Dream Dynasty” is going to be a pot of gold at the end of the proverbial Glazer rainbow, to be savored by all of Bucdom.

    Thus, the reason i call it an “open question”.

  49. JimBuc Says:

    Louis, Tom and at least one of the Erics:

    I know you guys would find it hard to accept, but Glazer gave a very valid reason for the Bucs current payroll: the Bucs don’t have players to sign to big second contracts. Think he is wrong, then think about this.

    Start with the 2004 draft? Who is still on the team? Michael Clayton. They signed him to a big second deal. Maybe a mistake but they did it. Everyone other than Clayton is gone, right? Correct me if I am wrong but 2004 was the first Allen draft, right?

    Go to 2005 — only two starters. Caddy and Ruud, neither of which require big deals now. Caddy will not get one due to injury. We could argue that Ruud may be entitled to one but NO TEAM would give hime one right now when they do not have to under the current structure. Regardless whether or not you agree with the decision to tender Ruud, there are no players from the 2005 draft that the Bucs have had to re-sign to big second deals. Strike two for Allen.

    Go to 2006 — I think we did a little better because I know we got Jospeh and Trueblood. Can anyone think of any other starter fromthat draft? These players are still on their orignal deals so, once again, no drafted player that had to be re-signed to a big contract. Once again, sketchy performance drafting.

    2007 — Gaines Adams (RIP) got a 46 mill contract. I think it was a six year deal, but what would his second contract have been if he woked out? Huge, right? The only other guy is TJ, still on his deal. Some other guys emerged this year but only after purging prior starters. Again, no big contracts to re-sign.

    2008 — Talib was a good pick but then we have DJ. Where is he? Out of the league. He was a 2nd round pick? 2nd round picks should be stars let alone 4th overall picks.

    All this means that Allen (and by association Gruden) failed over the last five years to build a good core group of drafted players that would have to be re-signed to big deals. That is the #1 reason the Bucs payroll is low.

    So, it is ludicrous to suggest that Gruden/Allen were fired because they objected to the Glazers lack of spending. As you can see above, the Glazers lack of spending was driven by Gruden/Allen (and I am a Gruden fan — he did not get some of the payers he wanted) Some of you have it backwards.

  50. Eric Says:


    Interesting analysis.

    But, if they saved money by not having to sign the drafted players to big contracts, due to the fact the drafting sucked, could they not have spent it in the free agent market instead?

    They count on the payroll also i believe.

    Had they done so, would we be talking about Coach Morris?

  51. JimBuc Says:

    Eric — I think they did and I think that is what failed for Gruden and Allen. When Allen came in we were in cap hell. Why? In part, because we had a lot of drafted players that we resigned to long extensions, right? Gru/Allen brought in Stuessie, Deese, Garner etc and it flopped. Even with that we did bring in some FAs along the way and we paid them well — Faine, AB, Garcia etc. So, rightly or wrongly the past failure in FA and in the draft (and the labor uncertainty) is what gives the Glazers cover for the spending. With the exception of the labor issue, that all evaporates going forward from this draft so we shall see.

  52. JimBuc Says:

    Eric — one more thing. I did not suggest, nor would any reasonable person, that the Glazers “saved” money by not having to sign drafted players to big contracts. I just suggested that that is a valid reason that payroll is low. Hard to argue that you saved money by paying Gaines Adams (RIP) $18 million guaranteed. This is why the notion that Gru/Allen essentially forced their termination over a fight on spending is so laughable. Allen got the Glazers out of salary cap hell, but he also cost them a fortune and they are where they are right now because of him

  53. Eric Says:

    Well, I know one thing for sure.

    SOMEBODY sucked to get us where we are today.

    If it was Allen, and/or Gruden they are gone now and can’t be forever blamed. So, the onion will be peeled so to speak – over time.

    Personally, I am ready for the cleats to hit the ground, and somebody kick the pigskin, and play some damn football!

    You make some good points Mr. Jimbuc, my compliments.

    But don’t get too big headed, your still wrong!

  54. Louie Says:

    @JimBuc: Since the Bucs drafts have sucked since 2004, then why did they fire Gruden/Allen without making changes to the scouting department? It seems all the people doing the scouting are still in place. The jury is still out on the 2009 draft. It’s frightening to think those clowns are helping pick players in this all important draft. I would think re-building the scouting department would have been the first step. Instead they fire the winningest coach in Buc history.

    I’m telling you, the decisions this team has been making don’t add up!

  55. JimBuc Says:

    Eric, I guess we shall see. Thanks for the conversation.

    Louie, that is a great point. I have heard (with no particular credible source) that the Bucs think that Allen and Gruden dominated the scouting department. I find that hard to believe, at least as far as Gruden goes, because I think it is pretty clear Gruden did not get some of the players he wanted. Although, he also got some players he fell in love with (Clayton, Caddy). Who knows. I guess we shall also see how Hickey and the rest do

  56. RahDomDaBest Says:

    How is Gruden so bad? How is Allen so bad?

    ESPN sure doesn’t mind paying Gruden. Gruden will coach again.

    Allen is the GM for the Washington Redskins… Working with Shanny… I sure as hell wish we had Shanny and Allen.

    Then, on the other hand, eveyone who hates Gruden like he’s GWB, reinforces Raheem and Doms EVERY MOVE???

    It’s obvious what is going on… And the smarter fan recognizes it. And in general, smarter people have more money…. So all the Glazers have done is cater to the poorer, more stupid fan base. Enjoy the Blackouts.