Bruce Almighty’s Legacy
March 28th, 2010
One reason Team Glazer decided to gut the franchise and rebuild through the draft was the inept drafts under the guidance of Chucky and Bruce Almighty.
So bad were the drafts that some five years after Bruce Almighty’s first drafts with the Bucs, scant few are even playing in the NFL, documents the Mad Twitterer of the St. Petersburg Times.
The only player remaining from the 2004 draft is WR Michael Clayton, the Bucs’ first-round pick whose career has gone south since his rookie year. The Bucs did re-sign Clayton last year to a five-year, $24 million contract with $10 million guaranteed. He rewarded them with 16 receptions.
The 2004 draft was the first under then-general manager Bruce Allen. The 2005 draft wasn’t much better, netting only two starters from 13 picks — RB Cadillac Williams and LB Barrett Ruud — and no backups. Two of those picks are with other teams, and nine are out of the NFL.
Guards Davin Joseph and Jeremy Trueblood are the only starters remaining from the 2006 draft. From 11 draft choices, one other is a Bucs backup (WR Maurice Stovall), one is with another team, and seven are out of the league.
The backbone of any draft is how many productive players can be found in rounds three through seven. Not only did Bruce Almighty (and directly/indirectly Chucky) whiff on many early round picks, they were horrid on the second day picks.
So Joe can see why Team Glazer wants to start building through the draft.
March 28th, 2010 at 1:27 pm
I give the GruAllen haters their due.
You can’t argue that we’re not a victim of cumulative bad drafting.
However, that said, then whose responsibility is it ultimately that
we have good drafts?
March 28th, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Aw cmon Joe, lets not misrepresent the man’s record.
Curent Bucs starters drafted during Bruce Almighty:
Aqib Talib
Geno Hayes
Tanard Jackson
Adam Hayward
Sabby
Joseph
Trueblood
Stovall
Ruud
Caddy
Clayton
plus Josh Johnson, back up QB.
Free agent sigings of note:
Jeff Garcia
Clifton Smith
Antonio Bryant
Jeff Faine
Donald Penn
Admittedly, some of the above draft choices suck, especially Clayton and Sabby, but some are a big part of the present plans. That article paints an incomplete picture. A GM doesn’t just draft. THose free agent siginings were pretty darn productive.
Heres the statistics that matter to me.
Two NFC South Division titles, and one 9-7 season. I know thats disgraceful to the Glazers, but lets see how Dom compares.
March 28th, 2010 at 2:08 pm
Eric:
Joe believes Bruce Almighty was a wizard with the salary cap. As a draft expert, he left much to be desired.
March 28th, 2010 at 2:30 pm
Id have to agree was no draft wizard, and surely he had some very bad selections, but not as bad as represented in that Article.
But, I think a lot of people fail to realize that most players drafted dont make it. Every draft is full of busts even by the best selectors. Suh could be a bust! Remember the “greatest ofensive lineman of all time”? Thats why putting all your eggs in the draft basket is very risky.
Remember, Bruce also traded for Joey Galloway. I think the bucs benefited greatly from that one also.
March 28th, 2010 at 3:21 pm
Eric — the success on the field was Gruden, not Allen. Some of those players that you attribute to Allen are part of the 3-13 Bucs. Who knows if they will be part of the future
March 28th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
JimBuc
Could be true. Im just saying that when you talk about a man’s “legacy” put out the complete record.
You can’t judge Bruce without mentioning his bringing in guys like Galloway, Bryant, Garcia, Faine, Penn, Smith, Hilliard etc. especially if Joe is going to provide cover for the Glazers “plan” based on Bruce’s supposed poor “legacy”. Very poor journalism IMO.
I am not in agreement that the 2008 bucs were at an expansion team level. I don’t think the talent level Dom and Rah inherited was 3-13. Thats just a big fat excuse. A lot of the same players in 09 were on the 08 9-7 team. That only became the mantra after the 0-8 start.
As for Bruce being responsible for 3-13 bucs, you can’t blame him when they put Raheem in to coach the team. In every measurable aspect of a football team they digressed from 08.
Raheem has been crowing about Hayward, Geno, Ruud, Black, etc. Hell they are the ones that gave Clayton the big contract! So he can’t have it both ways. Bruce sucked but heres the core we are counting on, drafted by Bruce. Makes no sense. (along with the fact Dom was involved in the same drafts also!).
March 28th, 2010 at 4:29 pm
Eric, come on man, look at your list again.
Aqib Talib – Good
Geno Hayes – Suspect
Tanard Jackson – Decent
Adam Hayward – back up material
Sabby – Fail
Joseph – Decent
Trueblood – Mediocre
Stovall – Suspect
Ruud – Mediocre
Caddy – Epic Fail
Clayton – Epic Fail
plus Josh Johnson, back up QB.
So you have a guy that has been the GM since 03, 6 years of drafting and that is our core. I am amazed you even try to make a case for Allen and his drafts not sucking so much. Thanks to him and Gruden, this team lacks a core of young players.
I love it when someone makes cases for Gruden and Allen in a 7 year span of mediocrity with Bucs (that includes a 4 win season), but think RahDom as failures with just 1 year of suck.
March 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Eric – I am with you on that. I agree that Allen did much more than just draft players. Good point.
March 28th, 2010 at 4:42 pm
Joe, you have never GM’d in the NFL so you don’t know what you are talking about!
Joe, Bruce Allen is currently the GM for the Washington Redskins.
Allen was the GM for the 2002 Oakland Raiders Super Bowl team who eventually got beat by Gruden, my guy!
Gru and I won a few more NFC South division championships, and now I am in one the richest organizations in the National Football League. Joe buddy, my resume speaks for itself… and that’s why I am GM for yet another great NFL franchise. Did I tell you that I went out and got Shanahan? All while the Glazer’s cheap a$$’s wiffed on signing Bill Cowher. HA HA HA.
Enjoy another “re-building year”! The last few years I managed that organization, we had winning records.
How long will it take Raheem Morris (our choice for position coach NOT HC) and Dominik (that little butt-kissing twerp who undercut me) to win 9 games? To win more than 9 as that was the bar for Gruden and myself?
Hey Joe, what does your resume look like?
March 28th, 2010 at 4:45 pm
I said the drafting sucked.
But did Galloway suck? Bryant? Garcia? Faine? Smith? Penn? Hilliard?
Seven year span of mediocrity? Allen wasnt here seven years you dolt.
And if your talking about Gruden, Perhaps you might glance at the Super Bowl video at the top of the page?
And while your at it look in the Dream’s trophy case, see if there is anything else in there except a P.E. degree from Hofstra.
March 28th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Caddy an epic fail? You got to be kidding me. When he plays, he’s been very productive. He’s the 5th leading rusher of all time for the team. Give me a 1000 Caddys on the team and they would win the Super Bowl every year. The guy had some of the worst injuries a RB can have and he’s worked hard and came back and produced. Some players would have counted the money and just disappeared. Bad breaks happen and you find out the character of a guy when he faces them.
I read that article and I do find it funny that the Bucs kept Mark D, Dennis Hickey and a lot of scouts who were responsible for these drafts. So the Glazers didn’t like those drafts, but kept many of the people responsible for them? That makes a lot of sense.
March 28th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Got a few more stuff to say. Sabby a fail, while Caddy is an epic fail? I still can’t wrap my head around that. And Geno Hayes was a 6th round pick and he was coming on like gangbusters at the end of his 2nd season. And that’s suspect? He’s only going to be 23 coming into this season. You don’t normally expect a 6th rounder to be a starter. Those are usually your special teams guys. Geno Hayes is turning into one of Allen’s best picks. It seems to me that Allen was starting to get into the groove the last few years. It wouldn’t surprise me if Hayes, Talib and Jackson were consistent Pro Bowl performers. And Sears was turning into one as well until he went off the deep end. Joseph has been solid. Not sure what to think of Trueblood. Some games he looks great and other games he’s lousy and commits a ton of penalties.
I would say Allen was up and down with his drafts. I don’t think they were failures like some people think they were. They may look not bad if those 3 mentioned above keep on improving. I believe Allen’s drafts were better in the later half than the early half.
March 28th, 2010 at 6:19 pm
Yeah, Bruce was the GM for 5 years and Gruden the HC for 7 years. You mention good free agency additions, but free Agency should be something that complements the younger core on a team, but free agents were the core for Bucs in that era. Why could we only be mediocre long after a SB season? Because there were many misses than hits in draft and the free agents could only do so much.
Caddy’s case is an epic fail. He was drafted in top 5, players like that should be superstars. But when did Caddy ever play like a superstar? Even before his injuries, he was a barely decent RB with 4.0 ypc. He does have a great fighting spirit, I agree, but I never saw a player with top 5 pick potential in him.
If you combine draft and free agent signings, Bruce Allen did a mediocre job over all, that is why we have been mediocre. What I do not get is why people that back up Gruden and Allen for their mediocrity are so quick in throwing Rah and Dom under the bus. I read one of your earlier comments where you say Rah and Dom did not inherit a 3-13 team, sorry to tell you they did.
Derrick Brooks, Cato June, Ike Hilliard, Jeff Garcia, Joey Galloway, Matt Bryant, Kevin Carter, Alex Smith, Phillip Buchanon could have made Bucs a better team over all, but where is the future with them? They were the core of our team in 08, not all of them, but most of them. After the veterans were released, Dom and Rah had a 3 win team to work with.
I am glad they were released/not signed and we got to see what the backups for long really had to offer. If the result is a 3 win team, so be it. At least we have a chance to add a top 5 talent because of that. Far better scenario than winning 8 games and having a 15th pick.
March 28th, 2010 at 6:23 pm
As far as Geno is concerned, we will have to wait and see. Geno had few splash plays and many horrible mistakes. If his mistakes go away with experience, I will gladly eat my words, but at the moment he is a suspect.
March 28th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Tp echo a point, the problem when naming starters on a 3-13 team is that a Lions or Lambs fan could spout out the same garbage “Look how many starters we have from those drafts!”
But then you’d be missing the point, those starters managed to produce a record of 10 games below .500 in a 16 game season. Not exactly inspiring. Tanard Jackson was suspended for substance abuse issues, Caddy is great a person as he is, is damaged goods and getting closer to the death knell of 30 yrs of age. Ruud can’t get off blocks, Clayton…Stovall hasn’t done jack as a receiver in this league, Sabby will be replaced, and despite all the premium picks on the line (Trueblood, Joseph, Sears, Zuttah) they play uninspired and mediocre much of the time.
In other words, Allen = Bad Drafting Bucs GM. Although I personally blame Dennis Hickey more so given his role as scouting director. Hey, guess who is still on the payroll and making draft decisions. Lucky us!
March 28th, 2010 at 9:43 pm
Interesting to watch it all play out. The drafting under Allen was awful, not mediocre and yet they kept Hickey. There has to be a reason
March 28th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Caddy was an Offensive Rookie of the Year. He almost won Comeback Player of the Year last season. He probably has several years left in him since he has very little tread on his tires so to speak.
When I think of epic failure with high draft picks, I think of Ki-Jana Carter, Steve Emtman, Blair Thomas, Lawrence Phillips, Mike Williams, Joey Harrigton, Akili Smith, Curtis Enis, David Terrell, Charles Rogers, Peter Warrick, Courtney Brown, Jamal Reynolds, Tim Couch, Ryan Leaf, Andre Wadsworth, Tim Biakabutuka, Mike Mamula, Heath Shuler, Trev Alberts, Eric Curry, David Klingler, Tommy Vardell, Bruce Pickens, Charles McRae, Tony Mandarich, Sammie Smith, Rickey Dixon, Brent Fullwood, Tim Worley, Rick Mirer, Jonathan Sullivan, Reggie Williams, etc etc. Caddy ain’t an epic failure. He may not have lived up to his draft status, but he hasn’t been a failure like the ones I mentioned.
Geno Hayes has already passed his usefulness by starting. The rest he does is gravy. He’s going to be a very good one. Epic failure for Caddy. Stupidest thing I have ever read.
March 28th, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Thing is you need to look at the pics that could’ve been had when we made them. I remember the Stephen Jackson…um I mean Micheal Clayton pick really well. Every talking head was calling that pick but somehow….The Caddy pick was way better than I anticipated. I thought he was going to be a huge bust, turns out he has really been unlucky, his injuries were kind of flukey (although may have been assisted by overuse). The rest of the picks, other than Ruud just didn’t really pan out which sucks for them.
2006 gave us a pro bowler in Joseph and a Trueblood that I think is pretty good when he is asked to do the right things. Anybody remember when we had a healthy Caddy running left behind these two guys, heck they dragged Chris Simms to a playoff game (that we would’ve won if Shepperd doesn’t drop the ball),
2007 is the one that we are really feeling now. Adams was a reach, Sears was a good pick but we can’t get him on the field, Sabby (jury is still out for me but he has cost us more games than any other player for the past two seasons), Quincy Black not a terrible #3 but he is one of our third round homeruns and T Jack is a good value at #4. We are reaping what we sowed for that draft.
In 2008, Talib was the #1, got the talent but a stretch for the off the field issues, solid pick though, then Dexter Jackson in the second, the worst pick maybe in the history of the organization, should’ve just picked me. Zuttah, nice pick in the third but honestly should be a depth player, Geno Hayes in the 6th lacks consistency, throw Clifton Smith in the pile as an Undrafted Free Agent. All in all that wasn’t a great draft but might have been one of the better under the Gru Allen era. Two things really jumped out at me when I went through this list was the absence of Pro Bowlers, only one in Joseph and he was an alternate, and the other was the failure to find any quality D-lineman. Any good NFL team needs a good D-lineman. All of the premier teams has two or three.
The Draft is a bit of a mystery for sure as there are no sure things but the Bucs have failed to find the right talent. I can come up with way more free agents that worked out than draft picks as of late. This is why the build through the draft is so discouraging. While we have new guys at the top pulling the triggers it would be nice to have a guy at the number three position (like Hunsicker with the Rays) that was a bit more long in the NFL tooth to assist in some of these decisions.
March 28th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
“free Agency should be something that complements the younger core on a team”
Somebody forgot to get this memo to the Saints and Drew Brees……………
March 29th, 2010 at 8:18 am
“Somebody forgot to get this memo to the Saints and Drew Brees……………”
The chance of Drew Brees being a free agent happens once every 50 years and yet our Bucs did not grab that opportunity to get him. Brees was not a world beater by any means at that time, but he was young & better than mediocre QB that got released by Chargers, where was the mighty Bruce Allen, the master of Free Agency then? We were a team without a franchise QB and we could not take a chance on him, paid the price by letting the Saints win a SB.
Also if you look at the core Saints have drafted, you will be surprised. On offense, guys like Colston, Meachem, Henderson, Bush, Thomas, much of their O-line, Shaun Ellis, Will Smith, Roman Harper, Tracy Porter and Thomas Morstead.
Tell me that core is not good. You double the core Bucs have and you still need to add some players to match the Saints’ numbers. Their free agency additions in recent years such as Brees, Greer, Sharper, Shockey, Bell complimented their existing roster greatly. That is how FA works my friend, not the other way around. The major portion of your team should never be outcasts/scrubs from other teams.
As far as Caddy is concerned, to me a top 5 pick SHOULD produce a superstar or else its a fail, if you look at that draft and see the kind of talent we passed to get Caddy, that is an epic fail. You had Jammal Brown, Shawne Merriman and DeMarcus Ware being graded better than Carnell and still we passed on them.
March 29th, 2010 at 8:41 am
“Brees, Greer, Sharper, Shockey, Bell complimented their existing roster greatly. That is how FA works my friend, not the other way around. The major portion of your team should never be outcasts/scrubs from other teams”.
So those guys you listed are “scrubs”?
And if the Saints “core” is so much better than the Bucs, how did Chucky end up beating them for two division titles in 05 and 07? Remember the key road win with McCown hiting the King of Turds near the end of the game, or when Chucky went for it on fourth and one with Graham?
I recall the “scrubs” Galloway and Garcia being particularly adept at burning the Saints ass.
Folks have very selective memories around here.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:14 am
I think the point that has been proven by the replys is that you must have a coach and gm on the same wavelength to havve any measure of success. Time will tell about the Rah/Dom team. I also think that you can’t put all of your eggs in the draft basket especially in the win now league. And if I remember right , Mckay was here and not on the same page as Gruden for a couple of years without #1 & #2 picks . Are we gonna blame anyone else? All I want is to make the team competitive and continue building towards a SB win. Not too much to ask I think.
March 29th, 2010 at 9:52 am
Is there another human being on the same “wavelenght” as The Dream?
March 29th, 2010 at 10:56 am
Merriman is practically out of the league. He had just 3 good seasons and he’s a roid user. Just what the Bucs need in the locker room. Very glad the Bucs didn’t get him. Quite a few teams passed on Brown and Ware. Let’s look at the top 10 of that draft. Caddy has out performed A. Smith, Pacman Jones, Troy Williamson, Carlos Rogers and Mike Williams. R. Brown has played better than him. He’s about even with B. Edwards (1 very good year) and C. Benson (ditto). A. Rolle I could go either way with. Caddy has had 1 very good year and 2 good years. I wouldn’t call him an epic fail or a fail. I would say the pick has been average. With your definition, I would gather that you think Vinny was an epic fail as well because he didn’t live up to his expectations. I could rattle off so many #1 draft picks of the Bucs that were bigger mistakes than Caddy. Ray Snell, Ron Holmes, Rod Jones, Keith McCants, Eric Curry, Ron Holmes, Charles McRae, R. Anthony, K. Walker, M. Clayton, etc etc.
In 2006, the Bucs were coming off a division title with young Chris Simms at the helm. They weren’t in the market for a QB. And the Saints would not have won the SB without free agency/trades that they did. Many of the people who made big plays in that game were free agents. You can never win the SB just by drafting well.
March 29th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Give me Chucky, Mcnabb, Boldin, AB, Marshall, Brooks. No draft at all.
Well go win th NFC South and beat the Dream’s team 35-7.
March 30th, 2010 at 9:29 am
Eric, you know who the scrubs are. 1st round picks that did not pan out with other teams, players that should have been practically out of the league.
As far as Merriman is concerned, he plays at an “ELITE” level, focus on the word ELITE, when he is not injured or suspended by the league. I am yet to see a season from Caddy where he plays elite, like a 4th pick should. He is borderline average, he produces like a 3rd rounder.
“Chucky, Mcnabb, Boldin, AB, Marshall, Brooks. ”
This statement proves me that you are a fanboy of Chucky and Allen. Why would you choose McNabb over Freeman at this point of his career? McNabb has proved time and again that he does not have what it takes to be good or consistently good against good teams. What can he do with a team devoid of talent, he would be a good part of another December Debacle if he was here with Chucky and Brooks. Did you not get pissed that Gruden never got us a franchise QB? Marshall would not be contributing with Gruden as the HC btw, McDaniels is a BB, JG, Bill Parcells wannabe and look how things have turned out between him and Marshall.