The Morning After

October 16th, 2017

(Photo courtesy of

If it wasn’t for 3 Daughters Brewing Beach Blonde Ale, Joe isn’t sure he would have been able to sleep last night he was so disgusted.

1. How ugly was this game? So ugly this is the type of game that gets people fired. No, Joe is not advocating in any way shape or form for anyone to lose their job(s). Remember, the Bucs started 1-3 last year and damned near got to the playoffs. But don’t tell Joe this train wreck Sunday wasn’t similar to the greatest debacles of the Raheem Morris/Greg Schiano/Lovie Smith eras. Joe vividly remembers how Bryan Glazer once told Joe’s good friend “The Big Dog,” Steve Duemig of WDAE-AM 620, that his family is patient with building through the draft but once they start cutting checks for high-priced free agents, then they begin to get impatient and expect results. It’s one thing to have your hat handed to you. That happens. But for this curb-stomping to happen a year after the very same thing happened in the very same building? And for the Bucs to allegedly have one of the better offenses in the NFL and not be able to score until after the team coughed up 31 points to a foe largely considered over-the-hill? That is shameful. This game reminded Joe of the Tennessee-ready game or the Capitol Collapse, or turd-on-the-field games from Raheem Morris and Greg Schiano. There is no question the Bucs offense, for whatever reason, is struggling. Mediocre offenses do better in the first quarter than the Bucs, and the Bucs are freaking loaded with talent. Teams with these kinds of weapons should not have to scratch and claw to score points in the first quarter, especially against teams like the Cardinals who are not the Cardinals of recent seasons. Some games stick in your cranium for a long, long time as crossroad losses. This had the stench of one of those games.

2. Joe has said this before, but the Bucs remind Joe of the Rays or the 1990s Atlanta Braves. Why? Some organizations, for whatever reason, cannot identify/find/draft/develop players at a certain position, for whatever reason no matter how hard they try and no matter how much money is spent. For example, the Rays cannot draft and develop hitters since Chuck Lamar was fired. The old Braves under general manager John Schuerholz, couldn’t find/develop/sign a closer. The Bucs? It’s defensive ends. And the one they did have, they let go for no good reason. Whoever pulled the trigger on that stunt should be banned from any NFL front office. The Bucs, in case you didn’t know, are rock bottom in the NFL in sacks. And you know how many sacks the Bucs have from their edge rush (what edge rush?) through five games. One. One! One!!! That is simply outrageous! This isn’t a Jason Licht thing. This is an organizational thing. What quarterbacks are to the Browns, defensive ends are to the Bucs. It’s been going on for a decade now and it is positively embarrassing! How bad is it that the Bucs year after year swing and miss on defensive ends? Consider the Bucs last week brought in Lamarr Houston to work out. For whatever reason, the Bucs didn’t sign him but Houston did sign with the Texans. And what happened yesterday? Houston got a sack! No s(p)it! Joe is telling you, the Bucs are simply cursed when it comes to defensive ends.

3. And now the entire Tampa Bay area holds its collective breath waiting for the MRI results for America’s Quarterback, Pro Bowler Jameis Winston and his throwing shoulder. Those test results very well could determine not just the season, but if we all enter draft mode before Halloween. Again.

4. Last week winning Bucs coach Dirk Koetter joked that when the Bucs linebackers are healthy, he may want to run a 34 defense full-time. That may not be such a dumb thought after yesterday. Look, the Bucs are loaded with linebackers and the defensive ends, from a pass rush point of view, are horrible. The way old man Adrian Peterson shamed them yesterday, maybe a 34 might be the way to go? Why not, if yesterday is an example of the defense this team will play, what does the team have to lose? Defense can’t get much worse.

5. Joe got a lot of this on Twitter after the game and it was utter nonsense. Folks were unhinged Koetter would go for a two-point conversion, or nitpick a play call. Geez, folks. All that stuff is total BS. The defense spotted Arizona 31 friggin’ points for crying out loud! An extra point or having Ryan Fitzpatrick throw from the one-yard line is all bulls(p)it compared to being down 31 points. Complaining about trivial BS like that is totally missing the forest for the trees.

Trinkets: Props to Lavonte David. Guy never quit and he’s a big reason why the Bucs were able to make a comeback. He stripped Larry Fitzgerald of a ball and had a scoop-and-score. Warrior. … Lot of folks thought that once Doug Martin returned to the lineup, all would be well with the Bucs rushing attack. He did have an impact against the Belicheats but yesterday? Meh. Martin, on 14 carries, averaged 3.8 yards, which is rather pedestrian. … Joe’s about had it with people whining about Jameis and his long ball accuracy. There are some stats out there that demonstrate Jameis isn’t that inaccurate, but whatever. Joe will play along here: Let’s say Jameis really is that inaccurate with long passes. If that is the case, then why does Koetter keep calling plays for Jameis to throw deep? So instead of whining about Jameis, why not ask why Koetter keeps going to the well time and again and expecting a different result? That’s not Jameis’ fault. Again, Joe doesn’t believe this premise but he’s just playing devil’s advocate for the haters. … When Brent Grimes is your leading tackler, you know you are in trouble. Grimes had eight tackles yesterday. Corners should not be leading a team in tackles.

72 Responses to “The Morning After”

  1. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    GMC didn’t show up yesterday except for a garbage sack during garbage time……that’s GMC thing, he’s always like that.

    Old man Palmer has all day to throw, rarely did GMC affect the pocket……he was invisible once again, as usual…..when you need big-time plays in big time moments, you never hear from GMC……all you hear from him are “crickets” chirping

    Thanks GMC for your inspirational play……no no…no, thank LVD, because he did more in one play than you did in 4 quarters of play……..

  2. JameisWin55 Says:

    Average talent, mediocre coaching,missing or giving away multiple draft picks is reason we are in the situation we in now we are essentially a 8-8 7-9 team year in year out which sucks cause we only get middle of round draft picks instead of top 10 gamechangers

  3. ChanEpic Says:

    Blaming one single person, especially the usual suspects(Mr. McCoy, Mr. Winston), misses the point entirely. This team is not coached well AND we are cursed to never find effective DEs, ever again. Koetter seems like good man, but with the weapons he has we should ONLY lose in shootouts and we struggle, Mike Smith has all the experience one could ask for, and we struggle on defense just like we did with Lovie. We raved about Marpet being great at what he does last year and promptly move him to a position he rarely played. We get Chris Baker and he does what most FA D line men do here in Tampa which is NOT sack the QB. It isn’t on one individual, this organization is suffering from something elusive and hard to define but it is organization-wide. Maddening!

  4. thunderchunkyPA Says:

    Coaching fellow stick carriers. Wade Phillips has Donald, the BEST DT in the NFL going, he adjusted his scheme to fit his best player. You have stud LB’s, time to make a change there Mr. Smith. I do not want to hear about having the personnel, because what you are doing on D is not working. Coach Koetter, take a look at Peterson and Wentz in Philly, O’Brien and D Watson on Houston. The run game on those teams is not hall of fame worth, but they put the QB in the best posstions to make plays. Quick passes, 5-7 yards a chunk, then you know what happens, THEN they take the shot here and there. Stop force feeding #11 please. You have a STUD in Evans, and 2 good TE’s, USE THEM. How can this team come out “flat” AGAIN? This is all on the coaches. And let’s not let Mr. Licht off the hook, after the “HOME RUN” Draft,Mr. Licht had the “ground out to the pitcher or strikeout looking” draft. VH3 is mental, Spence is not making any plays, the Kicker? Need I say more, Ryan Smith can not get on the field, but is a good special teams player, Caleb B is still progressing, and damn it looks like Bond might be the best of the bunch. That’s like saying you are the smartest dude in remedial math class.

  5. Conte Piscateli Says:

    A couple things. You really can’t make any judgement of the running game when you give up points in the first half like we did. Seriously I couldn’t produce Arizona’s numbers for the first half on Madden. On a positive note, I never would have believed the team would fight to make the final score look that respectable, Matthew is a good thing for Jameis to see how accurate deep balls and check offs can make this offense look very hard to defend. Number one positive from the game, NO MISSED KICKS!!

  6. Capt.Tim Says:

    Pretty easy to figure this one out.

    Noah Spence- one tackle, no sacks, no QB hits
    Robert Ayers Jr.- one tackle, no sacks, no QB hits

    And they were being shut out, by Rbs and TEs! I rewatched the game(bleh!!).
    McCoy was constantly double teamed, and frequently triple teamed!!!!
    Chandler Jones tripled their production- plus 3 QB hits and a sack.

    Or pass rush( other than McCoy)- is criminally bad!!

    Speaking of Bad.
    Vernon Hargreaves should be cut. Today. He is ranked the worst CB in the league. Hes worse than that.
    Licht and Koetter Are afraid to admit hes a bust.
    Will probably let him get them fired

  7. BigPoppaBuc Says:

    I was hopeful for our pass rush (what rush?) after NE game, but that was a pathetic effort yesterday. Can’t win in this league with that kind of play in the trenches.

  8. ChanEpic Says:

    Capt Tim – VHIII looked like VHPee yesterday. I’m surprised this team stuck with NE the way they did.

  9. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Vernon “Marshmellow” Graves is looking worse than “Toast” Jenkins……..that’s really bad.

    ……looked like lovie ball on defense last night

  10. johnnybuc Says:

    thank you! anyone questioning dirk koetter decison making later in the game should be questioning why mike smith is still employed by this team . i get it dirks the head coach and not having them prepared to play falls on his shoulders but the way the defense performed on the field sunday has everything to do with mike smith and i tell ya it is not pretty. this was worse than the defense looked at any point all of last season. he should be ashamed of himself getting absolutely embarrassed by bruce arians to years in a row . you still think this guys gonna be looking for a head coaching job after this season? he better hope his relationship with dirk saves his job . i pray that it doesn’t …

  11. Bottomfeedersagain Says:

    You can easily call out that crap defense, but pretending that this offense is in any way better is hilarious. They couldn’t do anything in the first half against the Patriots when the Texans could with a rookie QB. Then they weren’t able to do anything again against the Cardinals other than give Anger’s leg a workout. Yes, defense was horrible, but offense is severely underperforming. Remember a few weeks ago when we were all so pumped about how defenses weren’t going to be able to stop all the weapons? Wrong. I think Fitz is terrible but at this point I’d rather see him under center than Jameis, simply because I at least expect Fitz to screw up. When is Jameis going to start getting it and finding his open man? The schedule is not looking promising for this team. Hopefully they make some adjustments that work, otherwise Koetter’s finding a new zip code next season.

  12. Clodhopper Says:

    Maybe Koetter keeps calling those long balls because he’s blinded by Jameis’ charisma and cant see he hasn’t improved since day one.

    Jameis = Overrated

    Yeah yeah yeah, this game wasnt on Jameis’ shoulders alone, but that doesnt change the fact that we see bad Jameis more than we see good Jameis. He’s still over rated

  13. Spicoli Says:


    How about updating the website with another template… The site needs a revamp like the Tampa D

  14. dooshlarue Says:

    I think having JW out for a couple of games might do him some good.
    He didn’t lose the game for us, that’s on the defense, but something ain’t right and he really seems to be struggling even if his stat line says otherwise.
    I don’t think Koetter is happy with his play as well.

  15. tmaxcon Says:

    Once again the leader of the losing culture and UNDISPUTED Face of the basement years leads a flat uninspired defense. It’s absolutely laughable the excuses you people make for the overrated MENTALLY WEAK smiling CAREER LOSER…. Stars step up when thier team needs them not disappear…

    Vh3 could not even make Snoop dogs pop Warner team. Vh3 is by far the worst football player on field each week… You can’t win with a gm who blows first and second round picks consistently

  16. darin Says:

    Smiths d was terrible, got them to the 31-0 point yes. The reason it was 31-0 n not 24-3 was dirk refusing to take 3, the first points of the game. I saw a quote from him saying u cant expect to spot an nfl team 31 and expect to win. Why the f not dirk? He gave up, plain and simple. The bucs scored 27 in the 4th alone. It should have been a tied game at 38, had he opted for the correct fg at end of half. Mike smith should be ashamed for that d. Dirk should be ashamed for giving up at 24-0. I had no problem with the play calls on offense yesterday, but the little league game management is inexcusable. Period. The game was not over at 24-0. It wasnt even halftime yet. Bucs were stil running the ball at 24-0 after half. It wasnt until arians threw the ball deep to go up 31 that dirk decided to put up a fight n try to come back. Inexcusable.

  17. tmaxcon Says:

    Jameis had nothing to do with the loss yesterday the gmc led defense gave up the booty faster than a two dollar crackwhore on Hillsborough. No surprise that is the story of gmc career…. Blowouts, excuses and smiles from the face of the basement years

  18. IsrBuc Says:

    We have talented receivers and TEs but are we balanced on offense? We don’t have the bruising back that can run between the tackles and create something from nothing to establish the run if our O line is not dominating. What good are all the OJs and the Godwins doing to us when we need to FIND A WAY to UTILIZE them? It seems like we don’t really need them since we need to MAKE AN EFFORT to find something to do with them. At the same time we are missing crusial components at RB, DE and CB which we NEED RIGHT NOW to help us

  19. DallasBuc Says:

    “This isn’t a Jason Licht thing”
    Really? If it not his job to acquire the requisite talent at all positions to compete than who’s “thing” is it? A total of 5 offseasons this bum has had and the product on the field with all of his players sucks out loud. Stop the endless excuses for the man in charge.

  20. DallasBuc Says:

    “Meh. Martin, on 14 carries, averaged 3.8 yards, which is rather pedestrian. … ”
    The offensive line sucks folks. Martin is a good back but no one is running well against good defensive fronts behind this soft aas line. So many excuses for sacred cows around here.

  21. deminion Says:

    haven’t posted in awhile.. here is a small take. Koetter’s offense isn’t qb friendly.. every time I see Winston drop back its always some type of 5 step drop I don’t see any creative play calling at all one play ARI dropped 8 in coverage no one open Jameis threw it outta bounds. Ppl say they would rather have someone else sure… I wouldn’t u put any of these guys in #3 shoes they have to make great throws the whole game.

  22. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Can’t disagree with most your take,Joe.But the deep pass is an essential part
    of good offense. See the second half where Fitzsimmons completed 3 passes to Evans for 93 yards and scored 3 touchdowns. He was a forgotten man while Jameis was playing.Now I would totally agree with you,that Koetter should not call the sideline pass that Jameis usually fails to complete to Evans between two defenders.Adjust this pattern so that Evans is working toward the middle of the field where I happen to think Jameis is most accurrate.

  23. IsrBuc Says:

    How does the fact Koetter keeps calling for big plays on offense change anything about the reality of winston being inacurate on deep balls? How does your feeling about it change the fact that winston simply cannot hit on deep balls so far? It is exacly like saying that Folk was accurate because Koetter kept asking him to kick!
    Koetter mind or opinion is not the reality. He may think Winston CAN be accurate but stats show this is not happening yet. Like saying we have a good offense because we have good receivers. Well that never happened too!

  24. Bucsfanman Says:

    Same ‘ol, same ‘ol! It must be GMC’s fault! Right?!
    How about this, someone else on that d-line make a play. ANYONE! This d-line is flat out AWFUL. And, without d-line pressure, VHIII has been thoroughly exposed as the liability that he is.
    How could we go into this game and NOT cover Larry Fitzgerald of all people?!!!
    It’s going to be a long season if this d-line continues to play the way it has been. If GMC gets double-teamed, 3 other d-linemen have one-on-one matchups. MAKE A PLAY!

  25. Fool me once... Says:

    It is not just pass rush. When is the last cornerback the Bucs drafted that was worth anything? Brian Kelly? We are in deep trouble if Grimes decides to retire after this season.

  26. Clodhopper Says:

    Hows this for some stats?

    Jameis had three drives. They totaled 15 plays. Fitz had 15 plays in his first drive.

    Jameis in three drives had ONE third down conversion. Fitz had two third down conversions and a fourth down conversion in his first drive.

    Last week he couldn’t convert a third down in three full quarters against a defense that was terrible every week before us and even looked terrible against Stewart McCown!!

    I’m not saying Jameis needs replaced by Fitz. But look how a below average QB plays with these weapons, surely a good QB could do more that Jameis has so far!!

  27. Ed Says:

    C’mon here, the Bucs problems this year has been on offense and finishing drives. While the defense absolutely has sucked at Minn and now at Ariz. the offense has not sustained any drives and goes through quarters where their time of possession is horrible. The offense should not ever be punting 5 or 6 times a game.

    It does come down to making adjustments on the offense and the defense has to ball at the lines of scrimmage. Peterson had big holes and bounced his way out of arm tackles. They should have game planned to stuff the run and at the very start of the game taken out those running plays because that jump started the Cardinals.

    Seeing Fitz running down the middle uncovered is another issue.

    It shouldn’t be out of he ability of coaches and players to gameplay against a team like Ariz., you slide your double teams to Fitz and you put a spotter on Peterson. If Carson Palmer can beat you with his secondary offensive players fine, you can lose that way but don’t let Peterson and Fitz put up 300 yards of offense.

    The other teams are doing a good job covering Evans and Jackson and they force Winston to beat them and he isn’t. Good teams play to stop the other teams best players. The Dolphins stopped D’Vonta Freeman and pressured Matt Ryan and won. But when we play Atlanta Freeman goes off on us.

  28. BigMacAttack Says:

    It was a bad game but they’ll bounce back. Arizona is kryptonite for these guys. VH3 doesn’t just get that bad for no reason. Something’s up there, and maybe a drug test is in order. Might look at the Secondary Coach too. They still need to let Jameis be himself because all of that Coaching and fixing has got us this. Re-evaluate, regroup and come back strong. I’m not pulling the plug yet.

  29. Joe Says:

    How about updating the website with another template…

    Why? First, Joe doesn’t believe in fixing something that is not broken. Joe is also not one to change just for the sake of change.

  30. Capt.Tim Says:

    I hate it, when the first post on an article, is one of the clueless Zombies.
    Way to go, BucAnthem. Way to bring the stupid

  31. Bird Says:

    He is the number 1 over all pick and we shouldn’t have him throw deep with the weapons we have. The speed we have. Teams are stacking line. They are not afraid of deep ball cause Jameis has been so inconsistent there

    Joes- please stop

    So you are saying he should be Americas game manager and dink and dunk

  32. JerseyBuc Says:

    Completely disagree on the deep ball……#1 pic in the draft needs to be able to complete a deep ball to top tier receivers……i don’t care how many yards he has thrown for, he’s been mediocre through the 1st 3 years of his career, that scares me more then head coaches…..would hate to be stuck with mediocrity for 10 years praying this guy develops into what we’re seeing out of other quarter backs in their 2nd years…defense sucks but this team should be 3-2 at worst, that’s on the offense……best division in football, this ain’t cutting it

  33. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    Capt.Tim Says:

    October 16th, 2017 at 8:56 am

    I hate it, when the first post on an article, is one of the clueless Zombies.
    Way to go, BucAnthem. Way to bring the stupid

    Why thank you! 🙂

  34. FortMyersDave Says:

    Hmmm: VH3, Noah Spence, Aguoyo…. Nice 3 picks from round 1 and 2 of 2016. Look I get missing on the occasional pick but missing on 3 such high picks is unacceptable and before someone says that its only been a season plus 4 games and that young players need time to develop, well: Aguoyo is gone, VH3 is not only a bust but a loafer and Spence, well he is not giving that DL a whole lot is he?

    The game yesterday was something akin to that ATL game where the Bucs were down 56 zip late.. Joe says that its not such a big deal that Koetter did not go after the FG to go 24-3 and then chased 2 pointers all during the 2nd half. I do concede that it is not as big an issue as the defense doing a Ned Beatty Deliverance revival but doesn’t it signal that Koetter is conceding an L by going for the TD on 4th down at 24-0???? If it was end of the 4th quarter then yeah, go for the TD but into halftime the points were still important and it would have been nice to give Murray some work….. Just seems to me that was kind of waving the white flag instead of trying to build some positive momentum. If the Skins used Koetter’s methodology against Lovie’s Bucs in 2015 well I guess the Bucs would have somehow hung on for the win instead of a one point loss and Jay Gruden might have got canned.

    Despite the loss, thanks for the great Buc coverage Joe; JBF is the best place to get some insight and get some good takes from all sorts of Buc fans from the positive glass full optimists who think the Bucs can rebound to the fans ready to do a one and half gainer off of the Skyway and are already looking at the mock drafts with the Browns, Niners, Bears and Giant fans….

  35. DBS Says:

    This is typical for this board. They were not down 21-0 but 24-0. Had Koetter gone for 3 and not the 6 everyone would be b!tching he went for the 3.

  36. Buc1987 Says:

    Is it possible that Koetter has TOO many weapons and is overloaded with what to do with them all at the same time? Cause it just seems to me he did more with less in the past…

  37. I'm tired and 87 is right Says:

    Jameis is definitely not playing up to his potential. Something is off with him and I definitely think he can be great but again he needs to be surrounded by the right coaches. We need a solid QB coach to help him. We can’t afford to come out flat anymore. Come on Bucs let’s turn the corner to greatness!! Go Bucs!!

  38. DallasBuc Says:

    Why are my comments still in moderation limbo? What infraction have I committed lately for this treatment?

  39. Dusthty Rhothdes Says:

    Licht is a horrible GM been saying it entire time, you have laremy tunsil available, bong mask and all, he is a 10 year left tackle to protect jameis, but bucs grab vernon who was garbage at floridacovering nfl ready WRs, licht needs to go

  40. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Joe….you have at least one more week to call DK “winning Bucs coach”….

    It is not trivial that Koetter made multiple judgement errors yesterday because he does that most every game…..I think he should give up playcalling.

    His decision to go for two down 12 was mind-boggling….there was absolutely no reason to risk that at that time.

    We have no running game because we fail miserably on 1st & 10…..our line pass blocks well but the run blocking stinks.

    Sure the defense was horrible in the first half but Koetter’s offense didn’t help.

    I like Koetter….but quit giving him a pass….he makes too many mistakes.

  41. Tom Edrington Says:

    Why on God’s Green Earth would anyone lose sleep over the Bucs??

  42. Greg Says:

    Joe there’s no denying that Winston can’t throw deep no matter what BS stat you want to find

  43. Bucsfanman Says:

    @87- I feel the same way. It looks forced. We are becoming predictable and it shows.

  44. BuccaneEric75 Says:

    Bird, kind of like T Brady dinks and dunks down the field every week for the last 17 years or so. Nothing wrong with short passes to get the offense moving and keep the pass rush off Jameis.

  45. DBS Says:

    You mean kind of like what Glennon use to do but everybody hated?

  46. JonBuc Says:

    Play softly…and carry a big mf’n play sheet.

  47. Bird Says:

    Buccaneeric 75-

    Funny. You just compared Brady and Jameis. Pretty sure Brady used to throw deep to randy moss every game or when he had that kinda weapon and arm was younger and stronger. Trust me. He Still is throwing deep bombs to Brandin cooks

  48. martinii Says:

    My gut tells me the Buc’s were the recipient of a couple of years of pent-up anger manifested in the form of Adrian Peterson. But then it is hard to tell, we have watched the team lose so much over the last several years. My take away includes the above, poor play calling and the old “Slow Start syndrome. Say what you want but coaches don’t tackle, block, pass rush, or pass defend. Though I was disappointed with the outcome of last nights loss, I was impressed with the come-back effort in the 2nd half and for the most part the play of Fitzpatrick. It was obvious that the Cardinals were playing prevent defense which almost lost them the game at the end. I hope Jameis was paying attention to that long perfectly thrown TD pass to Evans in the end zone. This has been a strange season so far and while I am not happy with our record, I am far from discouraged about our play-off chances. We have seen a lot of good from the Buc’s under adversity. 10-6, even 11-5 is possible with no clear front runners in the NFC South. Hold on Buc fans it could be a hell of a ride.

  49. Kobe Faker Says:

    “Kobe Faker was verbally persecuted by stating LAST YEAR that the 2016 draft class was the worst draft in the history of the the Tampa Bay history (yes, that bad) and that in year 4, NO ONE will be on the roster from the 2016 draft”

    Before the regular season, Kobe Faker stated the MVP was the Glaser ownership

    Do you know why?

    Kobe “fully clothed” Faker


  50. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    Coaches change and the curb stomping continues…I’m a lifelong Bucs fan and these things didn’t even happen with some horrible teams from 1985 to Dungy’s arrival, the 76-77 Bucs get a pass cause they had no offense to speak of…Who has been here for these yearly stompings recently…GMC for one, hmmmmm

  51. Steven007 Says:

    @Tampabaybucfan – correct. I made that point during the game thread, that Koetter has one more week for the Joe’s to use that ridiculous moniker (even with one more win than less it’s still obviously very mediocre). Clearly the monikers aren’t working. I am not superstitious at all but let’s at least attach worthy monikers to these guys if we must. My suggestions:

    – Average Head Coach Dirk Koetter. Why? Because he is until he isn’t.

    – America’s Average QB Jameis Winston. Why? I love JW but goodness, he’s clearly average at this point. There are at least 10-15 QB’s playing as well or better than him week to week, including rookies and 2nd year players.

    – Hot Seat hating GM Jason Licht. Why? Though I generally think he’s done an ok job (sense a pattern? Everyone is average) clearly his seat is getting warmer by the week.

    I think that covers the most annoying ones.

  52. Svenson Says:

    Cannot draft and develop DEs? Well you have to draft them first. In the last five years, we have drafted three DEs–Gholston in the 4th (2012); Steven Means in the 5th (2012); and Spence in the 2nd (2016). In 2011 we drafted Clayborn and Bowers, the former was injured most of his career in Tampa, and the latter was a bum who was injured when we drafted him. Gholston is an elite run player–that is who he always has been. That’s fine. Means was cut, but is still in the league. Spence has been playing with a shoulder injury since we drafted him, but he is a situational player at only 250 lbs.

    Bucs need to invest more in the DE and CB positions. That has been the case for years. This is just the effect of not having done so.

  53. JJBucFan Says:

    darin- nail meet head. Dirk gave up in the first half. If he takes 3 at the end of the half, we still get the ball to open the second. I can “maybe” see if we kicked to them, but to go in with a little momentum is huge. Plus get the new (old) kicker started with a chippy. He sat Jameis because he (Koetter) gave up. He probably wanted to just move on the Bills. Fitz played well IMO, but 2 ints were a killer. Our O-Line sucks. Our D-line sucks (except McCoy) and can anyone tell me why Clinton McD doesn’t play more? Dirk is so lost out there he doesn’t challenge Swaggy’s fumble recovery (not the first time he didn’t challenge a call that he probably should have, btw). Who cares if you lose the challenge? You already gave up in the first half remember? Another example of Dirks ineptitude, we are moving the ball down and driving by throwing the ball and he busts 2 runs straight up the middle for a total of 2 yards I think, down by like 20. He punts when it is 4th and 4 from the 39 of the Cards, after it was clear that our Defense took the day off. The worst part of Koetter may not be the play calling, it may actually be the design of the plays. There is NO innovation, few crossings, few pump and go’s, just vanilla a$$ spit. Jet sweep to D Jax? No, not gonna do it. The guy is only one of the fastest guys in the league and one of the best punt returners so you know he has some shake. Should I go on? Koetter is the problem. I wish Jameis would call him out in the media, just like Koetter does to him. Oh and Mike Smith is the G D devil! That is all.

  54. grafikdetail Says:

    yeah the defense gave up 31 point but the the offensive guru koetter with all the offensive weapons put up a goose egg… this isn’t a defensive team… it was supposed to be an offensive team… but they put up ZERO until Patrick Peterson was hurt and the cardinals went prevent defense

  55. Solinor Says:

    Coach needs to let our OC call the plays so he can focus on becoming a better leader and preparing the team. I think he’s so focused and spending so much time on offensive game planning that he is ignoring his responsibilities as a head coach.. And that is to PREPARE THE TEAM mentally and physically. We were not prepared yesterday. Our team doesn’t take preparation seriously they need some leadership coach. Please give up the play calling duties. Monken will do great. Give him the reins and focus on your job, not the OC job!

  56. ndog Says:

    I’ve said it before and Ill say it again when you blow your draft picks and don’t sign quality free agents (I wonder if those AP or C Campbell guys could have helped here?) then you just are not going to be very good. Lets face it we all were projecting that VHIII and Spence were going to improve but they just aren’t in fact one of them is injury prone and the other one just sucks (which I said from before he was drafted btw). In addition we signed a premadonna at WR that is clearly causing chemistry issues with the offense and a DT who gets out wrestled by at 38 year old QB for a football!!?!? When you don’t select quality talent then you better have the best coaches and I think it is safe to say that we don’t have the best coaches because no team with quality coaching ever looks THAT BAD!

  57. 813bucboi Says:

    all this noise about VHG but you have to look at others….look at the way Winston and the way he’s progressed since he’s been here….progression has been at a minimal….he looks like he has regressed….noah spence hasn’t improved….d.smith hasn’t improved….they screwed up ryan smith by trying to make him a safety…big will hasn’t improved….this falls on coaching…our coaches cant make anyone better….GO BUCS!!!!

  58. Buc1987 Says:

    JJBucFan…great post. What more needs to be said?

    I hope everyone in the org reads your post.

    It’s gut check time as far as I’m concerned.

    JW is fine. Koetter pulled him out. That wasn’t a face of pain. IMO. Disappointment?

    Get an OC to start. The O needed to move the ball as good or as close to as good as Zona. The Bucs D was stunned. The Bucs needed to score points. Koetter had NO answer!

    Get an OC. Please.

    I don’t even know at this point if this secondary can hang with any team on the schedule. Larry Fitz and Palmer just drew up a diagram of how to exploit the Bucs secondary. Throw at Hargreaves. Especially with no pass rush. This sucks and is going to suck. We’ve all seen this before.

    That’s my morning after.

  59. BuccaneEric75 Says:

    Bird, I wasn’t comparing the QBs, but the offensive systems. Dirk has Winston looking for the 10-20 yard routes while the Pats WRs run many more shorter routes than deeper stuff. Dirk needs to mix that in more. The Pats will throw deep, but the shorter stuff is where they excel.

  60. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    “JJBucFan Says:
    October 16th, 2017 at 10:24 am
    darin- nail meet head. Dirk gave up in the first half.”

    You cannot be serious by saying Dirk Koetter gave up????????

    That’s a very foolish thing to say about any coach at any level in sports.

  61. Buc1987 Says:

    I’d say he was giving up after the first half. I’ll say that. Foolish or not that’s the way it looked to me. Then Fitz went wild on a D that was laying down in the 4th.

  62. ATLBucsfan Says:

    I’m going to sit on the sideline and wait for the players to decide they will take over the game. And not just a game, but consistently week in and week out.
    They have the talent, not the will; not the leaders. The players need to challenge each other and the team as a whole.

  63. Mike Johnson Says:

    All of these beautiful..comments here. All of the antacids, and pepto bismol. We get 2 feeds here out West on TV for the AZ games. And after that 1st quarter, the cardinal fans were laughing at us and ridiculing our sidelines so bad, My wife and I just got up and went to the movies to see Bladerunner. My wife never curses. But after that 1st quarter she said, What the this Sh..! LEts go to the movies.
    Buffalo in Buffalo is going to be..tougher than Arizona. And nobody but Buc fans are gonna feel sorry for us. So Ruck up Bucs or..take one of the top 5 in next yrs draft.

  64. JJBucFan Says:

    Anthem as hard to fathom as it is, it is my opinion that he gave up. I bet after the MRI, Jameis is right back at practice. Jameis wasn’t under that much duress during the game, he scrambled and fell wrong on his shoulder, it happens, I honestly think Dirk was trying to help him by saving him for next week. If we were down by 3 or 7, he never would have come out of the game, don’t kid yourself.

  65. LakeLand Says:

    This is just a bad football team. They have bad coaching. They are bad on offense (except for garbage time). They are bad on special teams. They are bad on defense ( except for garbage time). They are just a bad football team.

  66. TheBucsAnthem Says:

    JJBucFan Says:
    October 16th, 2017 at 12:10 pm
    Anthem as hard to fathom as it is, it is my opinion that he gave up. I bet after the MRI, Jameis is right back at practice. Jameis wasn’t under that much duress during the game, he scrambled and fell wrong on his shoulder, it happens, I honestly think Dirk was trying to help him by saving him for next week. If we were down by 3 or 7, he never would have come out of the game, don’t kid yourself.

    Maybe…….but I highly doubt Koetter would do that and being the competitor Jameis is, he would’ve wanted to be out there regardless what the scoreboard said.

    Any shoulder injury is major for a thrower (baseball or football), and you can tear up and re-aggravate things more by playing through discomfort.

    I know this because I’ve had major shoulder surgery while the sports orthopedic surgeon told me it would take 6 months plus rehab before I can think about light workouts again….it took actually 8 months and not til almost 11 months til I felt a bit normal.

    So I can clearly understand and sympathize with Koetter and the decisions he made.

  67. Greg Says:

    FortMyersDave Says:

    October 16th, 2017 at 9:00 am
    “I do concede that it is not as big an issue as the defense doing a Ned Beatty Deliverance revival but doesn’t it signal that Koetter is conceding an L by going for the TD on 4th down at 24-0????”
    Ariens was making Koetter and Smith squeal like a pig yesterday!

  68. George Ekdahl Says:

    I was a long time Bucs season ticket holder who saw a lot of bad football for years that made me mad, disappointed, disgusted and at times hysterical with laughter but the first half of yesterdays game was the most FRUSTRATED I’ve ever been at a football game in my life. I live in PHX now and 2 years in a row I saw a Bucs team not prepared to play. The Cards or not good. Their right tackle, Jason Veldheer, has been beaten play after play for the first 5 games of the regular season. Palmer has taken the most sacks and hits of any starter in the league so for the Bucs to get NO pass rush from the ends is embarrassing. Both of the Cards starting guards were not on a team at the beginning of the season. The right guard, Watford, was on his coach two weeks ago. That line destroyed us. As far as pass defense, wow, shameful. Poor man to man coverage and terrible communication during zone coverage. Say what you want about the offense (and it was offensive for most of the game) but the question is what Koetter does about Mike Smith.

  69. 813bucboi Says:


    dirk quit on this team…simple as that!!!….GO BUCS!!!

  70. JJBucFan Says:

    Anthem-not saying Koetter I don’t understand why Koetter did it, just saying he gave up because in his eyes (IMO) the game was already lost. If Jameis was that hurt, he would have never put him back in the game, and he did. Jameis should have been in the locker room being examined by doctors to see if he could play. Jameis played 2 series after the injury. He completed 15 yards, 15 yards and 9 yards in the second series. He went 0-3 on the 3rd drive including a drop by Brate on 3rd down I believe. Arizona went down and got a FG to make it 24-0 and Jameis was pulled. He never went to the locker room for examination at that time. 11:33 left in the 2nd. If your “franchise” is gonna be pulled, I would have him in that locker room being examined and taken his pads for the rest of the game. Jameis was on the sideline throwing a football in the second half with pads on- no helmut though. Not every shoulder injury needs surgery, if Fitzpatrick got hurt- Jameis would have been playing- we don’t carry a 3rd QB. Will await MRI but I have a feeling it will be called a contusion or sprain and you will see him next week. We will see.

  71. Mo_Downs Says:

    Perhaps Koetter wanted a no excuses game to review on Monday in the team tape review session. Im not a coach, but, it seems like with all the “on-paper” talent, practice and planning during the week, it is not working on game day. The results, despite the best of intentions, long days and nights game planning, you are defined by your W/L record, period.

    I think Koetter allowed the team to expose themselves for who they are. If Jameis is really hurt, fine. He’ll rehab and be back when he is physically ready to play tackle football, with NFL players. But, I suspect he’s not hurt and Koetter wanted he and especially the rest of the team to understand, without question, the need for professional effort from the rest of the team. At a certain point all the talk in the world can’t make up for a lack of execution of a game plan.

    Considering all the positive hype surrounding every coach and player, the results speak loudly about being overmatched, beyond individual talent.

    Pro football is a team game played by VERY talented, highly trained adult athlete.
    Results (BALL) don’t lie. So, despite all the hand ringing on Monday, ultimately the COACHES must bear the responsibility for an underperforming team. Or, maybe, along with lowering expectations, we need to be realistic about our methods and stop elevating 4th qtr statistics beyond the reality of the opposition pumping the brakes.

    I don’t know if Jameis is allowed to call audibles at the line.
    I don’t know if a rookie MLB can call audibles at the line.
    But, I know the NFL rules don’t allow the coaches mics to be on once the team is at the line. So, running into a brick wall when a hot read could lead to success or being in the wrong defensive coverage because the opposition shifts to expose you
    should not be a big deal for a well coached team.

    Look, sometimes the opposition has better positional players, but you shouldn’t expect good outcomes when your players are constantly out of position.

    Koetter said that the team was out of position defensively and gap control was a problem. Ok, so after all the training camp and preseason games we still have problems with FUNDAMENTALS?

    Losers Lament..!!

    If a player clearly demonstrates that he doesn’t get it, over and over, it’s not his fault that he’s still allowed on the field to “not get it” and cost the team a chance for a win.

  72. SOEbuc Says:

    Koetter should just put Fitz out there every time he wants to throw the ball down field. He was throwing some strikes yesterday and the bomb to Mike for the touchdown was just a thing of absolute beauty.