Limited Snaps For Spence
September 28th, 2016
Lack of snaps explained
Joe touched upon this yesterday. Not sure if anyone has noticed but second round pick defensive end Noah Spence didn’t play a whole lot Sunday against the rotten Rams.
In fact, Spence logged a grand total of 12 snaps Sunday, or three per quarter. Given the injuries the Bucs have suffered to their defensive ends, Joe thought surely Spence would be a key figure Sunday and maybe start.
In fact, the opposite was true.
So today in his daily presser, Joe asked Bucs head coach Dirk Koetter how Spence is faring with his progress adapting to the NFL. Koetter said the reason Spence didn’t get on the field much was because at this point in his development Spence is strictly a third-down passing specialist. Sunday, the Rams were not in many third-and-longs.
“He is not behind the eight ball, no,” Koetter said of Spence. “I think what we need to do as a defensive team is if we do a better job of winning on first and second down, Spence is going to show up more as a third down player.
“I think last week we had four third-and-ones or third-and-twos. Normally, a third-and-one is going to come up about once a game. So having four, we didn’t get that many third-and-10s. We need to get teams into third-and-six-plus. And that is when he is going to have a chance to shine.”
So there is something to monitor Sunday. If the Bucs hold the Broncos to third-and-six or more, then you can expect Spence on the field.
Joe totally understands rookie defensive ends normally struggle adapting to the speed and size and strength of the NFL. But given injuries to Jacquies Smith and Robert Ayers, Joe is still a bit surprised Spence cannot get on the field more, no matter the down-and-distance.
September 28th, 2016 at 3:53 pm
I swear, if we coil combine the skills of Will Gholston and Noah Spence we’d have the best DE in the NFL. Spence will develop. And it will be well worth the wait when he does.
September 28th, 2016 at 3:58 pm
Spence is going to be a decent player, but if we have better run stuffers at this point in spences development then why use spence in a situation he is not very good in? He was a second round pick, not von miller. I actually like the fact that he is a pure pass rusher. The bucs haven’t had good pass rush, so developing Spence to terrorize QBs is a good thing. Let him perfect his craft of the pass rush, then coach him up on run stuffing. I am a ok with letting players develop and not throwing them into the fire.
September 28th, 2016 at 4:22 pm
Yeah I can see why. After all, this is a pretty stout defense to crack the lineup on. Rediculous. How could he be any worse than the non- existent DE we have now?
September 28th, 2016 at 4:25 pm
I think a lot of us thought Spence would be limited against the rams. He is a liability against the run. Bad matchup for him. This week we get the broncos who don’t scare you with the running game. I imagine he will see more snaps assuming we don’t fall behind early and allow them to go into run the clock mode.
September 28th, 2016 at 4:26 pm
And we need to keep talented players and I quote “coach the LOVIE out of them”!!
September 28th, 2016 at 4:27 pm
Simeon Rice was weak agains the run, didn’t ever see him sit because of it
September 28th, 2016 at 4:31 pm
@conte piscateli
I agree with what your saying. I think the bucs have done a decent job against the run. We have arguably had the 2 best backs in the league the past 2 weeks. This week I think we can put Denver in a lot more 3rd and long situations.
September 28th, 2016 at 4:35 pm
Not sure this is a surprise right? All through he preseason MS was saying Spence was not ready to play the run down after down… why would that change 3 weeks in to the season?
September 28th, 2016 at 4:47 pm
we need the best 11 on the field at all times….GO BUCS!!!
September 28th, 2016 at 4:57 pm
I think most of us think he will be special, and I can hardly wait.
September 28th, 2016 at 5:33 pm
I’m waiting for someone to say……”Why play him in a “meaningless” game…..keep him from injury.”
September 28th, 2016 at 5:44 pm
@Tampabaybucfan on parole
how about “we are saving him for the playoff run”!!!!!!!
September 28th, 2016 at 6:30 pm
Spence got 35 snaps in the Falcons game, 24 snaps in the Cardinals game and 12 snaps against the Rams … steadily decreasing. Although all 3 teams have a decent running game, the Falcons passed much more than they rushed (22 rush/39 pass). The Cardinals about broke even (30 rush/34 pass) but the Rams ran considerably more than they passed (33 rush/26 pass). Since Spence is a rookie pass-rush specialist, maybe the defensive coaches really did know what they were doing by playing run-stuffers in appropriate situations. But shhh, don’t anyone tell Buccaneers or Mike Johnson. They’d freak out at the thought that Mike Smith and Jay Hayes might actually know more about defense than they do.
September 28th, 2016 at 6:48 pm
If he’s a liability in the run game, then you gotta play guys who aren’t a liability. Simple as that.
September 28th, 2016 at 6:59 pm
So, a 2nd round pick for someone who can’t play every down. I fear another 2nd round blunder here 🙁 …hope I’m wrong
September 28th, 2016 at 7:28 pm
……..but we have All World GMC right?
So what’s stopping us from using Spence?
Ol’ Softie gets double teamed every down right? He’s that good a right?
So why can’t we use a pure pass rusher with LB help and make it happen?
GMC is paid big because he’s THAT good right?
September 28th, 2016 at 9:33 pm
Spence is currently about 245 lbs – so no, having him in there trying to fend off run blocks from 310 lb Tackles is not the best idea right now. He needs additional coaching, experience and he also needs to bulk up about 15-20 lbs this offseason.
I agree that limiting Noah’s snaps to expected passing downs is the best course of action for the time being.
September 28th, 2016 at 11:45 pm
Even Von Miller in his rookie year couldn’t play the run the way he does now, so let’s give the guy a break and let him have time to develop that skill. A lot of high draft picks struggle at DE…he’s not some failure of a draft pick. Imagine if the Bucs had given up on Winston after only three games in his rookie season.
September 29th, 2016 at 12:06 am
If the Rams passed the ball 27 times and Spence was only on the field for 12 of those then their were 15 passing plays that he sat on the bench. When he isb on the field he brings pressure better than any other player on this team. My point is it not worth that extra pressure on 15 downs over his inability to hold the edge? I think not. Play him every down.
September 29th, 2016 at 12:22 am
Smiths injury is gonna kill us this season….once again no pass rush
September 29th, 2016 at 8:17 am
“…Joe totally understands rookie defensive ends normally struggle adapting to the speed and size and strength of the NFL…”
What is a surprise is that undrafted rookie DE Lambert was on the field for 51 snaps. So for Spence to get only 12 snaps, something isn’t right. Doesn’t this fact clearly counter Koetter saying Spence is “not behind the eight ball”?
September 29th, 2016 at 10:03 am
It really sucks that we cannot depend on J.Smith being injury prone. I could understand if we had a pro bowl DE in front of Spence but cmon, this guy needs playing time, we’re getting no pressure on the QB right now.
September 29th, 2016 at 10:07 am
@godzila13…
You have to realize that those 12 plays he was on the field were probably obvious passing downs.
September 29th, 2016 at 10:08 am
@Harry,
Maybe Lambert is a better run defender than Spence.
September 29th, 2016 at 11:04 am
@celly,
Clearly that is the case. But, what strikes me is that an undrafted rookie FA can start and play the majority of snaps (kudos to Licht), but our prized 2nd rd pick can’t get on the field (shame on Licht? time will tell…)
It is way to early to tell, but this last draft is not the “grand slam” of the past.
September 29th, 2016 at 11:35 am
J. Smith is injury prone as evidenced by the last 3 seasons, but he’s our most disruptive and consistent edge rusher when healthy.
it’s a travesty they had him out there on a damn special teams play! I told you guys we would miss him dearly.
September 29th, 2016 at 11:59 am
Harry, here’s an analogy.
I’m not going to ask the specialist that replaced my hip to act as my family doctor . The family Dr. is a generalist with practice in a much wider range of things than is the specialist. I don’t care about the draft status of the specialist. I want the generalist when I’m not getting a bone or joint dealt with.
Doesn’t the same apply to Lambert and Spence?
September 29th, 2016 at 12:05 pm
pretty simple ,Bucs were more afraid of Todd Gurley than the rams passing game.the secondary ,especially safeties are not good in coverage. Time to try Ryan Smith to see if can cover back there.Heck I would even try Barimah back there.Safeties have to do more than stop the run.
September 29th, 2016 at 12:51 pm
@BucinJAX,
I understand the analogy, but my point is if Spence was making the impact we hoped he would, he would have way more snaps.
As an example, if you want to talk “specialists”, old and never good vs the run Dwight Freeney (very much a “specialist”) got 31 snaps this past Sunday; double that of Spence. 2016 2nd rd Oakland draft pick DE Jahid Ward, drafted 5 spots after Spence, is starting for a good Oakland defense and he got 52 snaps this past Sunday. Jax rookie DE Yannick Ngakoue, drafted 10 spots AFTER our beloved kicker, is also starting and got 61 snaps Sunday, with 4 tackles and 2 sacks.
Now, sure, its way to early to have major concern. And maybe Spence is going to be Simion Rice. But, Spence’s lack of snaps is a legit concern.
September 29th, 2016 at 1:57 pm
@Harry,
The Saints offense is usually in a passing down situation. I’m willing to bet that the Saints had more obvious passing downs than the Rams did this week.
To my knowledge, unless things have changed, Oakland runs a 3-4, and that defensive scheme doesn’t usually have pass rushing specialists at the DE position.
As far as Jax, was Ngakoue drafted as a pass rushing specialist or was he touted as being better against the run?
If the Bucs can manage to get up early on a team and force them into more passing situations, I’d be willing to be that Spence would see the field more. I’d much rather have him take the time to develop into an all around DE and work on his rush defense than to throw him out there and get mauled and ran over on run plays.
We already know that if that happened, fans on this board would call coach stupid for allowing that mismatch.
September 30th, 2016 at 5:59 am
Slight issue with teams not throwing as much…they’re averaging 9 yards per attempt when they do. Yet, “the Bucs have been stout against the run”. You can’t have it both ways. As for him being a liability against the run, he couldn’t be any worse than a 5’11, 245 DE who wound up having 8.5 sacks his rookie year because he actually played…Elvis Dumervil. Frustrated beyond reason with this team.
September 30th, 2016 at 6:35 am
Then, of course, someone will say Dumervil is one out of how many light weight DEs to have that kind of impact his first season? Bucs will stay the course with Spence, teams will continue to throw for 300 yards per game, even though the opportunities for Spence to rush the QB are few and far between. They drafted a player, who requires just the right match up to use him? We’ll they traded up to draft a kicker in the second round, so that pretty much makes sense. Lol.
September 30th, 2016 at 6:41 am
Sorry for the typo, “Well” instead of We’ll”