Lavonte David On Decisive Play

September 8th, 2013

lavonte david 0906

There are few players Joe likes more than Bucs linebacker Lavonte David. He will be in Pro Bowls. He will have a wonderful career in the NFL. But there is no way anyone can justify — or deny – his complete brain-dead play of a late hit on Jets quarterback Geno Smith that allowed the Jets to kick a game-winning field goal to open the 2013 season.

David, being the stand up guy he is, talked to Joe and maybe a dozen other reporters after the game about the play in question.

[Jets quarterback Geno Smith] just made a good play,” David said. “Nah, they just called the flag, I guess they thought I hit him out of bounds.“

David, who was in tears over the play and the outcome it forced, was nearly inconsolable on the sidelines but defensive line coach Bryan Cox and his teammates rushed to prop him up.

Players and coaches told David “’just keep your head up.’ Guys around here are very supportive. That’s what you need to be a great team. One play doesn’t make you.”

The Bucs were called for several personal fouls on defense for either late hits or what referees determined were hits on defenseless players, or hits to the head. David, maybe unaware the NFL has rules against such hits, noted this is the way the Bucs play.

“That’s the way our defense is, play aggressive, just play physical,” David said. “You are going to get called those calls. You may not feel like that’s the right call but you can’t do anything about it. That’s the way it is. We are aggressive and that’s what makes it great.”

Yes, there are things you can do about it. Do what most teams in the NFL do. They adjust to the rules of the game, whether they like the rules or not.

Roger Goodell isn’t going to order a stable of referees to call a different game just because the Bucs are playing.

79 Responses to “Lavonte David On Decisive Play”

  1. lightningbuc Says:

    “If Joe can be so modest, yes, there are things you can do about it”

    Yeah, get a real QB so when playing against a mediocre team your team will be up 20 and you won’t have to worry about a ticky tack personal foul penalty.

  2. Pete422 Says:

    News Flash Mr. David. You did hit him out of bounds. Still love ya though.

  3. Killian Says:

    Off topic, but why haven’t the Bucs called Austin Collie for 3 WR?

  4. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    We do have to adjust….however I recall Barron being called for a slam to the ground…but it wasn’t called when Page was slammed.
    I think Goldson sent 3 players to the locker room with his hits.
    The only problem I have with that is he should save it for Division games….we have definately sent a message about the “No Fly Zone”.
    I agree that the offensive playcalling cost us the game…I don’t know why we don’t open up more agressively and stay that way. Run after run up the middle wasn’t working.

  5. Free(Agent)Man Says:

    Glad it’s not a technique issue. It was a mental mistake at a costly time and we put them in field goal range. Something that can be fixed. It won’t be a problem for a smart guy like David. On a positive note, really like his relentless pursuit, and motor.

  6. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Barrons penalty was last year against RG3….

  7. Joe Says:

    Barrons penalty was last year against RG3….

    Yup.

  8. stratobuc Says:

    “Roger Goodell isn’t going to order a stable of referees to call a different game just because the Bucs are playing.”

    Yeah? It sure looks like it when they call it one way for the opposition and another for the Bucs. Look at the tape if you won’t believe it.

  9. Adam L Says:

    Just go hockey-style and hip check people close to the sidelines.

    I don’t care if he cried like Nancy Kerrigan. He cost the Bucs the game and I heard him say n••••• on the sidelines to someone he hit so this isn’t an upstanding well-thought conscientious person we are dealing with.

  10. Joe Says:

    We do have to adjust….however I recall Barron being called for a slam to the ground…but it wasn’t called when Page was slammed

    RGIII is a quarterback; Page is not. That’s the entire issue. Quarterbacks play under different rules. Either adjust, or be prepared for the consequences.

  11. Gus Says:

    @Adam L WTF are you talking about. Saying he cost us a game is one thing but to say he isnt a “conscientious person” is completely moronic.

  12. lightningbuc Says:

    “He cost the Bucs the game and I heard him say n••••• ”

    I thought it was OK for a black man to say it. It’s just us white folk who aren’t supposed to use that word.

  13. MadMax Says:

    Whoa now…. simmer down now…… ;)

  14. Drew Says:

    LMAO… KW is writing his newest tracks for his Toes on the Line debut album to be released in January of 2014. With such hits as…

    Toes on the line Schiano

    Sully can’t call no O

    Evil Free demon doll

    Dysfunctional life of a Buc

    Rollover B Big Buc

  15. ATLBucsFan Says:

    The league is destined to remove tackling from the game. Grabbing the shoulders to pull the player down is all you will see. The defense has been neutered and it will continue to decline. Either the fan gets used to it or finds something else to do on Sundays.

  16. BigMacAttack Says:

    It was a bad play by David, but hardly a hit. He barely pushed a player running with the football, not a sliding QB. He was half a step out and then Geno took a dive. The refs did not miss a single opportunity to flag the Bucs and this call changed the outcome. I watched Clay Matthews slam Kaepernick on the ground out of bounds, and that was a legit personal foul. This was just another excuse for the refs to one side it for the Jets and it worked. Refs have screwed the Bucs for years and this was another shining example. It is hard to play 11 on 17 all season, every year. This sucked an Schiano played the wrong defense when the game was on the line. Greg Schiano sucked today and Mike Sullivan was licking his ball$

  17. lightningbuc Says:

    ATLBucs,

    Correct! Today was a great example of the pussyification of the NFL!

  18. Eric Says:

    It was a clear penalty, and totally boneheaded. Not aggressive, boneheaded.

  19. Bucfever40 Says:

    I’ve been saying it for years, referee Ed Hochuli and his crew are almost obsessive with throwing flags, almost to the point of being profoundly ridiculous, and especially when it comes to the Bucs, I knew coming into this game that there was going to be controversial calls-without a doubt!! 3 BIG hits by Goldson that were highlight reel hits that took out 3 Jet players, all 3 hits were flagged for Personal Fouls! When you leave questionable calls on the discretion of referees, ESPECIALLY Hochuli’s crew, then you’re guaranteeing the game itself will be modified, how can you ask your big hitting safety to ease up on his hits, or to “think” before he lays the wood on a poor defenseless receiver? HELLO! It’s a violent game! These players have pads on, if the safety is not leading with his head and uses his shoulder to hit a players body, (not head)….I mean if that’s not acceptable, then you’re gonna end up with DB’s who use their arms to tackle as they will always be afraid to make the big hits(because of penalties and/or big fines), then that will dramatically change the position, from then on, we (The Bucs) can no longer create any fear for going up the middle…pretty soon it’s going to be the NTFL (National TOUCH Football League)!!!

  20. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Can’t believe the amount of people that think Freeman lost this game for us. Just a blatantly obvious lack of football knowledge. Either that or just ignoring what really happened to peddle the BS they always do.

    The people that have the slightest clue know what happened today. The TEAM lost this game. No ground game whatsoever? Terrible blocking? Terrible play calling and adjustments?

    Yes, Freeman had a bad game. So did the rest of the team. The defense played OKAY but they DID have several penalties. No one is making excuses here. FREEMAN PLAYED POORLY. I just acknowledge the equally, if not more so, terrible play of other players/coaches.

    The reason Joe keeps calling Lavonte out for this play is because you can actually pin point this loss to that particular play. You can say, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that if Lavonte did not push Geno then the Jets lose. yes, terrible play throughout the game contributed to the loss but you know that if he didn’t push Geno then we walk away with a W. Can’t really say that for certain about any other play in the game.

  21. Jason77 Says:

    Football, has become a pussy sport!! Were’s the Soccer at….I hate soccer.

  22. BamBamBuc Says:

    WCBF – The most sane thing I’ve heard all day, thank you.

  23. passthebuc Says:

    He did not cost the Buc’s the game. One play never decides the games outcome. 3 times during the game we pulled up just to see that someone decided not to go out of bounds and it cost us first downs. Over aggressive yes, deciding factor, no. Bad offensive line, and bad coaching yes. But don’t hang the loss on LD’s shoulders.

  24. lightningbuc Says:

    “The defense played OKAY”

    LMAO! All offseason you preached how they gave up 25+ points a game. Today they gave up 16, and gave the offense the ball on the 5 yard line for 7 of their 17 points.

  25. Thegregwitul Says:

    Those Goldson hits were clean, the impact jarred the ball loose on the first big hit. The David play was a mental error, going full speed and not pulling back, but Geno and the bench sold that to the officials; this wasn’t Clay Matthews going full blown Superman on Kaepernick.

    In any event, it was a disappointing game. The Bucs have played down to their competition when playing weaker or inexperienced teams over the last few years, it’s very frustrating. The playcalling needs to be better, this is 2013 not 1994. At this point it’s basically a given that Freeman will make one boneheaded play each game. Josh was solid on the final offensive drive, but he’s wildly inconsitent. Where is that Josh from 2010?

    Revis played well, McCoy was a beast, LaVonte was solid barring the late hit on Smith. I love the intimidation factor Goldson brings; he took out three guys by himself. I don’t remember seeing something like that since Sapp took out Steve Young and Jerry Rice all those years ago.

    At least the Panthers and Falcons lost giving the Bucs a chance to tie for the division lead next week at home against the Saints. Maybe it’s the fan in me, but I think the Bucs come out and have a strong game against the Saints next week. Here’s hoping…

  26. You go Joe Says:

    Peneed to think twice before calling for Davids head. Yeah he did a foul that resulted in a loss. But he’s a much greater player than that.

    Does anyone know Davids stats for the game?
    3 tackle, 5 assist, 1 sack and int. He put in his part more than enough to keep the game in arms length of winning. And it was that action that led to the jets win.

  27. tony Says:

    Freeman hardly lost that game. Ya he had some mental errors but I would say the o line had quite a bit of trouble protecting freeman. The game was in the bag. We all know what really happened so the glennon mob can pump their f***ing brakes.

  28. Bobby Says:

    They keep calling penalties like the one on Goldson and there is going to be a rash of ACL injuries because DB’s are going to start going low. They really have no other choice. If putting your shoulder into a guys chest is a penalty in football then this game is doomed. The helmet to helmet was incidental. It was not intentional and Dashon did not lead with his helmet. The second helmet to helmet was probably legit because three Bucs collided with the receiver and they did have their heads lowered.

  29. David Colwell Says:

    he was inbounds when contact was made!
    http://s22.photobucket.com/user/mdbrim2004/media/NFL/Lolreally_zps04b4037f.png.html

  30. Jacko101 Says:

    We need a 3rd WR I’d rather have Underwood. If Shiano wants to keep his job he better start looking now. Ogletree is garbage thus far

  31. Eric Says:

    Sorry but I can’t get excited about a defensive effort againt the jets. They had a rook with hardly any offensive weapons around him. We couldn’t even stop old man bad knees Winslow.

    Stop Brees this week and we can talk. Or Brady the next.

    Oh my God were sooooo doomed. Oh 3 right around the corner.

    Thanks Dom.

  32. You go Joe Says:

    @WCBF – straight on brother, keep on preaching!

    Horrible screen plays on 3rd and long
    A horrendous healthy O line
    Zero TE usage also productivity from their blocking
    Coaching did little to no adjustments
    Leonard, dam you and your penalties and blown coverage.
    Goldson awesome hits, but penalties are expected.
    3rd receiver, what 3rd receiver.
    No Lorig in the field hurts martin… A LOT
    Doug martin just ran through the middle very rarely to the outside (reminds me of last years play calling)

    There’s more than just Davids penalty. And freeman’s performance :P

    It sucks, but it shows what we can do and we can do some damage if we get our sh** together.

  33. Pete 422 Says:

    I was watching Football night in America & Rodney Harrison was saying that DBs around the league are going to start going low. Bad news for the knees of WRs.

  34. BigMacAttack Says:

    David Colwell, nice find on the pic. If he was out, it was only by a couple inches if at all, and Lavonte has full contact at the point of this photo. It was a light shove and not a hit. Geno was scrambling for max yardage and if it was a slide maybe a different story. This really sucked.

  35. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @lightningbuc

    Did we lose the game? Yes. Then that means the defense didn’t do enough. Throw in the fact that we had SEVERAL penalties, the lead with 38 seconds left, and the Jets had no timeouts and that adds up to an OKAY day.

    I’m not some ignorant fool that believes only one person was responsible for this loss.

    We lost, CONGRATULATIONS! I am SO GLAD that you were right and we sucked. Please keep taunting real fans that actually cared that we lost today, jackass.

  36. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    In today’s NFL, that is a personal foul. Every single one of us knew the flag was coming as soon as it happened. David has to know that the push, albeit harmless, has the potential to be devestating (as it was). There really is no defending him, but at the same time he’s a great player who just made a horrible mistake. He’s not the reason we lost, but his penalty cost us the game (I think that makes sense). The game should have never been that close. We were outcoached, out executed, manhandled at the line (on offense), and got absolutely no calls. This game had loss written over it very early on, and although we almost stole one, we ended up giving it away. Tough day to be a Buc.

  37. Alex2013 Says:

    Let’s call a spade a spade…he was inbounds, which makes the contact legal…If you don’t want to post my comments, its cool…Because, it was a foolish mistake and costed us dearly…But, to not acknowledge the bad call is not the Joe I know…You are the best in the game, and I will always support your site…Keep posting and all will come… #1 Bucs’ Site

  38. lightningbuc Says:

    WCBF,

    Not happy we lost at all. Just, you told us all offseason how the defense stunk last year, JFro had more touchdowns than all but 6 QBs, etc. Today, the defense gives up only 16, and 7 of that was after JFro got intercepted right after a Lavontae David interception. Plus, the defense basically scored 7 of the 17 points put up by the offense. You told us, if the defense improves, which it drastically has, that we’ll be fine with JFro at the helm. Now, when it proves true what I said, you have to pout and claim I’m happy the Bucs lost, which isn’t true at all. Typical goober smoocher JFro Jock Sniffing Mob!

  39. SteveK Says:

    WCBF,

    Keep trying to throw pointed digs, and completely lying to yourself about the ineptitude of JF5.

    Seriously, what planet are you on? Freeman got outplayed by Geno Smith, who was 7-6 last year in the Big 12.

    What does it say about your football knowledge to try and deny this?

  40. David Colwell Says:

    HawaiianBuc
    If that’s the rule then fine, but make it even and stop mean mugging my guys and end up missing to face mask calls and a power bomb on my returner. You wanna make it a sissy game fine but do it evenly across the board, I’m just asking for fairness is all.

  41. lightningbuc Says:

    SteveK,

    Now the JFro Mob are all coming at us as “reveling” in the loss just because we cautioned during the offseason that today may be the norm for these Bucs.

  42. Jake Says:

    This loss should not be put on the shoulders of Lavonte David. The Bucs could have put the game away after David grabbed his interception but the offense gave the ball right back and was nowhere to be found for the majority of the game.
    I am by no means a member of the Mike Glennon mob but it’s astounding how many Freeman apologist forgive his poor performance over an entire game because he led the team into field goal range at the end. The offense had 2 good drives today and they were fortunate enough to have a decent defense playing an inept Jets offense.

  43. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    and claim I’m happy the Bucs lost

    Really?

    “lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
    A thread with almost 300 comments, and none from Buc1987. Call the Sunshine Skyway bridge alert, stat!”

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
    Buc1987? Are you OK? I may not particularly care for you, but it’s just a game. Don’t jump!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Buc1987? Anyone, anyone?

    Raphael, your boyfriend was awful today! All offseason you goobers told us how much the Bucs gave up in points. Today, it was 18 (really only 16). JFro needs to win. BOO!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
    Buc1987 and BucNjunky,

    Please, for the love of God, you guys are tailgating next week together. Don’t JUMP!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    Anyone seen Buc87 or Buc Junky?

    Like a complete jackass in every single article you were calling people out to show how right you were. Gloating. You obviously cared WAY more about being right than the Bucs losing. It is blatantly obvious from your posts.

    And yes, our “stud defense” kept the mighty Geno Smith to 18 points. Huge accomplishment. Meanwhile, Freeman and the offense were facing a defense that has ranked in the top five for the last 3-4 seasons. You are a damn fool if you think 100+ yards in penalties, bad playcalling, blocking and losing the lead in the final seconds didn’t affect the game as much or more than Freeman.

  44. Just A Juggalo Says:

    That picture was at a very bad angle. Too bad the ref’s don’t call the game from 10 yards out of bounds. They do call the game from within the sidelines which gives them the opposite perspective.

    The problem is that he hit a QB after the whistle. 15 yards. That Jet FG barely made the distance too.

    I wonder if Schiano had one of those famous meatball sandwiches and a cold drink at halftime. After all, halftime is for eating, drinking, taking a leak and smoking a couple Marlboros, especially with that humongous 2 point lead.

    I think Rex might have won the battle kibitzing with his coordinators at the break.

    I’ve alway liked Geno Smith and had hoped that the Bucs could have maneuvered into position to draft him. I think he will be a competent pro.

  45. Chef Paul Says:

    Bottom line is Freeman and the offense played against a great defense. Our defense played against a rookie QB and a joke of an offense. Don’t think for a second this defense has improved all that much

  46. BigMacAttack Says:

    A player is not out of bounds until he touches out of bounds. His foot is in the air right on the sideline while his other foot is a couple feet in bounds. The NFL just went over this whole running QB thing with Harbaugh the other day. A running QB is no longer a QB in the pocket afforded all the same protections. Geno earlier in the game stretched a sideline run for a first down. Hochuli’s crew is flag happy and this was a bad call, a game changing call and the NFL should provide further clarification, or fire a Ref that has been involved in more controversial calls than the rest put together. The Jets lobbied on the sideline for the flag and the Ref who’s last name was Soprano was more than happy to oblige, and collect his envelope after the game.

  47. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    And this nonsense about Freeman being outplayed by Geno is nothing short of ridiculous. There stat lines were nearly the same and Freeman faced a MUCH tougher defense.

    You are clueless if you think Josh lost us this game. I mean just downright ignorant and narrow minded. He wasn’t any help but he was NOT the root of our problems today.

  48. BigMacAttack Says:

    Hits in bounds are legal hits on runners. Hits out of bounds are illegal on runners. It’s green and white. Until he touches white, everything is green for go.

  49. SteveK Says:

    WCBF,

    YOu’re right, lets just extend Josh to a 100 million dollar contrat. Clearly he is not at fault.

    The losing needs to stop. Today’s loss makes me think Freeman is not the answer.

    He can’t audible? I thought year 2 was going to work out the kinks?

    Geno outperformed JF5. Geno passer rating: 80, Freeman passer rating: 67.9. Freeman looked like the rookie out there today.

    The Jets are not better than the Bucs They just have a more confident QB.

  50. Chef Paul Says:

    Geno outperforming Freeman has just as much to say about the defense as it does Freeman

  51. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    You want to know who else Geno Smith “outperformed”?

    QB Ratings:

    Geno Smith: 80.6

    Ben Roethlisberger: 76.7
    Tom Bra-dy: 76.4
    Joe Flacco: 69.4
    Cristian Ponder: 63.1

    You going to make the argument about how Geno Smith is better than Tom Br-ady now?

  52. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @DavidColwell,

    I agree with you 1000%. The officiating was awful, and completely one sided, and I almost never complain about officiating.

    Right or wrong, my point is that regarding that play, they are going to call it every single time. They don’t have the benefit of slowing it down and seeing if he was touching the white as he was hit. They see him running out of bounds and getting pushed while his body was out of bounds. At full speed, I knew it was going to get called. I highly doubt anyone on this board thought differently, especially when it happens on their sideline. At minimum, we were scared out of our minds that it MIGHT be called. David has to know better. It wasn’t dirty, it may not have even been correct, but it will be called. I hate to admit it as does everyone else, but deep down we all know it’s true.

  53. Chef Paul Says:

    Freeman sucked today and had a bad game especially presnap. Putting all the blame on him is dumb. Just dumb. If Freeman isn’t the answer that’s fine. But if he isn’t the answer then neither is Schiano, Sully, Sheridan, Dom, Martin, Penn, or the entire defense that continually makes QB’s look like allstars. Making Geno look that good is way way worse than anything Freeman did today.

  54. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    He can’t audible? I thought year 2 was going to work out the kinks?

    Do you REALLY think this is on Freeman? It is the COACHES job to prepare their players. If they are NOT prepared in live action that is on the coaches and only the coaches.

  55. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    You can’t compare a proven player like Tom Brady to Freeman, Geno Smith, or any other unproven player. He’s in a different class. I don’t care if he has a zero rating.

    Numbers be damned, Freeman doesn’t pass the eye test. He is inaccurate (can anyone really with a straight face argue that?). He often times looks completely lost and/or frustrated. He loves to throw late across the middle, which almost never ends well. He has terrible pocket presence (very rarely will you see him side step or take off and run anymore). He takes forever to get rid of the ball. He almost never throws away from the side of the field of his first read (if he looks right, he is going to throw right). He doesn’t know what to do when he has an “equipment malfunction”. How often do you see him audible? Does he look like he is in control of the offense to you? Beyond occasionally pointing out the Mike, what other calls at the line of scrimmage have you ever seen him make? And the most important question of all: Would you rather have Freeman than Brady, Manning, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Kaepernick, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Wilson, Luck, RG3, Dalton, Roethlisburger, or Flacco? Would you even take him over Schaub, Cutler, Tannehill, Palmer, Bradford, Romo, Rivers, or Alex Smith? I don’t think I would. That’s 23 QB’s that you would either take over him, or at least strongly consider taking over him. That leaves 8 QB’s that he is clearly better than I guess. That’s not good enough for a team that has about 10 potential Pro Bowl players on it. Twist numbers all you want, but it’s the truth. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

  56. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    You can’t compare a proven player like Tom Brady to Freeman, Geno Smith, or any other unproven player. He’s in a different class. I don’t care if he has a zero rating.

    Numbers be damned, Freeman doesn’t pass the eye test. He is inaccurate (can anyone really with a straight face argue that?). He often times looks completely lost and/or frustrated. He loves to throw late across the middle, which almost never ends well. He has terrible pocket presence (very rarely will you see him side step or take off and run anymore). He takes forever to get rid of the ball. He almost never throws away from the side of the field of his first read (if he looks right, he is going to throw right).

  57. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    You can’t compare a proven player like Tom Brady to Freeman, Geno Smith, or any other unproven player. He’s in a different class. I don’t care if he has a zero rating.

    Freeman doesn’t pass the eye test. He is inaccurate (can anyone really with a straight face argue that?). He often times looks completely lost and/or frustrated. He loves to throw late across the middle, which almost never ends well. He has terrible pocket presence (very rarely will you see him side step or take off and run anymore). He takes forever to get rid of the ball. He almost never throws away from the side of the field of his first read (if he looks right, he is going to throw right).

  58. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Where did lightningbuc go? Too busy taking champagne showers in celebration?

  59. john Says:

    54 you are a winner, stupid play but and you cost us the game but keep your head up we need you. I still say bucs will NEVER go above 500 with current GM

  60. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    You can’t compare a proven player like Tom Brady to Freeman, Geno Smith, or any other unproven player. He’s in a different class. I don’t care if he has a zero rating.

    Freeman doesn’t pass the eye test. He is inaccurate (can anyone really with a straight face argue that?). He often times looks completely lost and/or frustrated. He loves to throw late across the middle, which almost never ends well. He has terrible pocket presence (very rarely will you see him side step or take off and run anymore). He takes forever to get rid of the ball. He almost never throws away from the side of the field of his first read (if he looks right, he is going to throw right). He doesn’t know what to do when he has an “equipment malfunction”. How often do you see him audible? Does he look like he is in control of the offense to you? Beyond occasionally pointing out the Mike, what other calls at the line of scrimmage have you ever seen him make? And the most important question of all: Would you rather have Freeman than Brady, Manning, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Kaepernick, Ryan, Stafford, Newton, Wilson, Luck, RG3, Dalton, Roethlisburger, or Flacco? Would you even take him over Schaub, Cutler, Tannehill, Palmer, Bradford, Romo, Rivers, or Alex Smith? I don’t think I would. That’s 23 QB’s that you would either take over him, or at least strongly consider taking over him. That leaves 8 QB’s that he is clearly better than I guess. That’s not good enough for a team that has about 10 potential Pro Bowl players on it. Twist numbers all you want, but it’s the truth. You know it, I know it, we all know it.

  61. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Nothing is more frustrating than typing up a well thought out post, then hitting submit, and it not being there. Seriously very irritating.

  62. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc

    You can always hit “back” and it will keep your post.

  63. Buc in DC Says:

    I went to the game and although we should’ve escaped with a win, I’m increasingly annoyed how Freeman throws his arms up in the air every time he does something dumb or gets sacked….or kicks the ball out of the end zone. How the hell do you come out of a timeout and get a delay of game, seriously how do you do that? Freeman isn’t the answer and neither is Schiano. Go back to Rutgers you bum!!! And cut Ogletree, does that dude know how to catch?

  64. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    Tried that, multiple times

  65. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Only works right after you hit submit and you see that it didn’t post.

  66. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Yes, I know.

  67. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Hmm, that’s weird. I have done it on several different browsers, including some mobile browsers, and I have always been able to hit “back” and recover my post.

  68. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    My post was actually directed at you. My basic point was that Freeman just doesn’t pass the eye test. He is incredibly inaccurate (no one can argue that). He loves to throw late across the middle, and it almost never works out for him. Far too often he looks completely confused and/or frustrated. He completely breaks down if he has an “equipment malfunction”. I can absolutely promise you that debacle on the first series would not happen with any of the good QB’s in the league, even if I coached them.

    (I’ll continue on the next post)

  69. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Most importantly, I’ll ask you this: Can you honestly say you would rather have Freeman than any of the following QB’s: Brady, Manning, Eli, Brees, Rodgers, Kaepernick, RG3, Luck, Stafford, Newton, Ryan, Wilson, Dalton, Roethlisburger, or Flacco? Would you even rather have him over Rivers, Palmer, Alex Smith, Schaub, Tannehill, Romo, Cutler, or Bradford? That’s about 24 QB’s better than him. That leaves 7 QB’s that he is better than, but even that is a stretch.

  70. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    argg, still won’t let me post. Basically I count 24 QB’s I would without a doubt take over Josh Freeman. There’s a few more that I would have to think long and hard about. I would challenge you to name 16 QB’s that Freeman is better than (which would put him as an average QB).

    All this is coming from a guy who has supported Freeman since the day we drafted him.

  71. bucs fan since 99 Says:

    I LOVED THE PHYSICAL PLAY! EVEN IF WE LOSE EVERY GAME AT LEAST WE GET TO WATCH QUALITY PHYISICAL FOOTBALL LIKE THE OLD DAYS. THOSE HARD HITS AND AGGRESSIVE (D) MAKE ME SMILE AND PROUD TO BE A BUCS FAN! (^o^)

  72. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Now it goes through like 4 times, smh

  73. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc

    I wouldn’t take Freeman over your first tier of QB’s (excluding Dalton) but I would honestly take him over every one of your second tier of QB’s. I think the general reaction to our first game is a little blown out of proportion because the Jets actually have always had a top notch defense. A good QB can have a bad game against a good defense. I am not saying that is what happened. Just that his first outing against a stud defense shouldn’t be the measuring stick. Especially when the play calling was so suspect.

    I do agree that he looked confused at times. I imagine it is very difficult when you get nothing from the run game, bad playcalling and bad blocking. I am not saying Freeman was a victim here. Just that it is kind of hard to evaluate the QB when the players around him had a very rough game. Can you honestly say that the playcalling was even mediocre or creative? Can you say we had anything resembling run game today?

    Freeman is at his best off of play action. The play action doesn’t work when there is no threat of the run.

    To be honest I do not think Freeman will ever be elite. I do share some of your recent skepticism. I think he could be just good enough to take a good team far. This team has all the pieces. If the coaching staff can get it together then I think this team can still go far this season. With Freeman.

  74. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @WCBF,

    I can respect that. I pretty much agree, and I’m sure I’ll cool down a little with time (and a good game).

    As for Dalton, the guy’s been a pro bowler in his first two seasons. He’s accurate, and he’s won games. I’d give up Freeman and more for him, and follow it with a happy dance.

    With Freeman, it’s not just this week. He’s had probably 20 games like this in his career, if not more. He generally plays poorly on the road. He absolutely cannot handle the blitz. He makes multiple errant throws in EVERY SINGLE GAME, even his good games.

  75. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Playcaling was awful in my opinion. Blocking was too. But he’s not the first QB to have poor playcalling and blocking. Problem is, he can’t throw a simple screen pass. Even the times he completes it, the receivers are always having to stretch for it. He has a terrible tendency to throw everything high. Re-watch any game and disagree. You won’t. He rarely hits people in the numbers.

    Is he good enough to take us far? I thought so, but I am really doubting that now. He’s had 4 years, and he has yet to show it (except against a historically weak schedule in 2010). We can possibly win DESPITE him, but I don’t think we are going to go far BECAUSE of him. If the best he can be is “good enough”, then he’s not the guy I want with a team this talented. I would rather start over and hopefully get someone who can win games for us.

  76. Buc1987 Says:

    WestCoastBucsFan Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 9:28 pm

    “and claim I’m happy the Bucs lost”

    Really?

    “lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
    A thread with almost 300 comments, and none from Buc1987. Call the Sunshine Skyway bridge alert, stat!”

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
    Buc1987? Are you OK? I may not particularly care for you, but it’s just a game. Don’t jump!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
    Buc1987? Anyone, anyone?

    Raphael, your boyfriend was awful today! All offseason you goobers told us how much the Bucs gave up in points. Today, it was 18 (really only 16). JFro needs to win. BOO!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
    Buc1987 and BucNjunky,

    Please, for the love of God, you guys are tailgating next week together. Don’t JUMP!

    lightningbuc Says:
    September 8th, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    Anyone seen Buc87 or Buc Junky?

    Like a complete jackass in every single article you were calling people out to show how right you were. Gloating. You obviously cared WAY more about being right than the Bucs losing. It is blatantly obvious from your posts.

    And yes, our “stud defense” kept the mighty Geno Smith to 18 points. Huge accomplishment. Meanwhile, Freeman and the offense were facing a defense that has ranked in the top five for the last 3-4 seasons. You are a damn fool if you think 100+ yards in penalties, bad playcalling, blocking and losing the lead in the final seconds didn’t affect the game as much or more than Freeman.

    Whoa whoa..this the same guy that said before the game that he was going to put differences aside with Buc1987 because it was game day? What an as*hole!

  77. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Buc1987

    Yeah, lightningbuc thought it was hilarious that the Bucs lost today. He made sure to let everyone know he was right.

    @Haiwaiian Buc

    I would encourage you to look at some of Dalton’s individual games last year. He had 3 or 4 horrific outings. As for him being a pro bowler? He was alternate. Just like Freeman in 2010. He also plays alongside a GREAT defense.

    I don’t disagree about Freeman’s issues. I would like to see us upgrade when the opportunity presents itself but I really don’t think Glennon gives us the best chance to win. I could be wrong. Horribly wrong, but I still think Freeman will do just enough to get it done.

    Just like the game yesterday, he drove down the field and had us in position to win despite a pretty bad game all around. That is what I like. We were in all but two losses last year by one score. Sure I would like a consistent quarterback that can put the team on his back and win it by a huge margin but I realize that is quite unlikely so I just put all my faith in the QB we have now. If he fails and Glennon takes over then I will root for him just as hard.

    The sky isn’t falling just yet.

  78. Joke Says:

    “David, maybe unaware the NFL has rules against such hits, noted this is the way the Bucs play.”

    Joe, enough with the condescending bullcrap. Spend your time looking in to the one thing fans care about – whether the hit was legal or not. Actually watch the last broadcast replay, from the sideline. It looked clear that Smith hasn’t touched out of bounds when LVD pushed, although the right side of Smith’s body had clearly broken the out-of-bounds plane. So the question is, what’s the rule in that situation? Did the refs make the right call or not?

    Not about the whether the call was technically correct, as Joe’s explained several times. Also, there are still images out there showing David with his hands on Smith out of bounds. David was foolish no matter how you slice it. –Joe

  79. big007hed Says:

    This article was disappointing to read. David made a questionable play but not address the fact that they used this same escape on the sidelines earlier gives him a ton more credibility. Why isn’t there an article questioning this penalty or the 2 stupid defenseless receivers penalties?

 
 

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