If Stafford Got A 5-Year, $76 Million Extension …

July 10th, 2013

While Josh Freeman is no money hound, he must be cracking at least a little smile this morning, as word comes from USA Today that his 2010 draftmate, Lions QB Matthew Stafford, has signed a $76 million, five-year contract extension. The deal includes $43 million guaranteed.

Stafford, like Freeman, has only one great season under his belt and has an ugly career won-loss record. Unlike Freeman, Stafford has had serious injury issues.

So what the heck is Freeman now worth on the crazy quarterback market? A hell of lot.

Donovan McNabb, speaking on NFL Network, seems somewhat aghast by the money flowing Stafford’s way. 

“It’s about wins and losses,” McNabb said. “What has he really done for the Detroit Lions? Nothing.” McNabb went on to question Stafford’s decision-making and consistency late in games. It sounded an awful lot like criticism tossed Freeman’s way.

Regardless, Freeman’s leverage with the Bucs was just bumped up big time. Imagine if Freeman has a great season in 2013. He’ll certainly command Darrelle Revis money and more.

140 Responses to “If Stafford Got A 5-Year, $76 Million Extension …”

  1. robert Says:

    joe

    you just made my day with that picture.

    that’s some funny poo, even to a third grader like me.

    There’s a reason the lions always suck! horrible move…kind of like the Jets signing Sanchez. Don’t think for one minute this is going to help jfro 6 pack……if anything it will hurt him by putting the two sides further apart.

    I would imagine the conversation with his agent would be something like…. “hey Dom, we need 75 mill with 50 guaranteed” to which Dom laughs and hangs up the phone and then calls in Schiano for a good laugh.

    This only hurts jfro 6 pack and all but ensures he’s gone with anything short of a stellar season. He lights it up and they back up the money truck. but right now they are probably preparing for the worst and scouting every football field in the country for a QB without a jerry curl.

  2. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^^ the only thing I agree with on your demeaning diatribe is the fact that you’re in the third grade.

  3. flmike Says:

    The Bucs have a long history of giving up on QBs to soon. Williams, Young, even Dilfer…
    If they don’t resign Freeman teams will be lined up to sign him, just off the top of my head I can name 5 teams right now who would take him and start him this season. Oakland, Az, Tenn, Cleveland, Jets.
    All you haters can hate, he’ll still earn more in one season than you’ll earn in a lifetime…

  4. bucrightoff Says:

    Yeah I’m not at all happy about that Stafford contract. He’s not worth it and neither is Freeman, but if Freeman does even slightly well this season he’ll be within the market rate to ask for the same deal.

  5. Bucfan Says:

    If freeman produces and takes us to the playoffs, I wouldn’t extend. Franchise him and have him prove it again.

  6. BOb Says:

    and thats how teams get into trouble.

  7. lightningbuc Says:

    “It’s about wins and losses,” McNabb said.”

    Not according to West Coast and the other Freeman lovers.

  8. robert Says:

    Williams and Dilfer were never special. and Young trained behind Montana. So, who’s to say those were not the right calls.

    This only supports my point I made yesterday. jfro 6 pack knows he’ll have other offers and will perform mediocre once again while some schmuck team thinks they can transform him.

    Schiano is Belichick…… he won’t pay for mediocre or damaged goods.

  9. Sharkcoasttactical.com Says:

    Stafford gets injured a lot but I like him over Freeman

  10. Macabee Says:

    Sure! Go ahead and franchise him. The tag is 15mil now. With all the big contracts let this year, it will probably be 17mil in 2014. I’m sure he’d hate that!

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/03/01/franchise-transition-tag-values/1957879/

  11. Mjmoody Says:

    I know I can get it, but what did Stafford get guaranteed his rookie deal? More, less, or close? He’s old school. Overpaid & average. Supposed to be franchise. Keeping the fans waiting. There are lots of us on that boat, holding on to lots of hope. Sneering at the RGIII’s, Lucks, and Kapernicks.

  12. Couch Fan Says:

    Thats insane of the Lions to pay an oft injured QB that much money who hasent had much success… however, his teams have beat our teams consistently when we’ve played. I can’t see Dom giving anywhere near that type of money to Freeman without a trip to the NFC Championship. Even Stafford was lucky enough to get his team to the playoffs once. He also has better numbers than Freeman does.

    He is 40 yards short of throwing for back to back 5000 yard seasons… some of you would be worshipping him like a messiah if he were here in Tampa with those numbers, since to some of you stats is better than actually winning football.

  13. Bb Says:

    I agree IF hen has a great year franchise him and see if he can do it twice. If not we need to try to find someone who is not the worst QB in division.

  14. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    “lightningbuc Says:
    July 10th, 2013 at 10:19 am

    “It’s about wins and losses,” McNabb said.”

    Not according to West Coast and the other Freeman lovers.”

    Hmm, McNabb says its ALL ABOUT wins and losses? That’s funny because an actual football organization, the Lions, seems to think otherwise. McNabb is just jealous.

    The contract does have a major impact on Freeman’s future contract negotiations. Stafford has not accomplished much more than Freeman, if anything. They both had a 10-6 season. Stafford’s of course resulted in a one-and-done playoff appearance so obviously that makes him WAY better than Freeman. (Let’s not forget the best WR in the league either.) Even with that though, Stafford is very much an injury risk. No doubt that was included on setting the price for his contract. Freeman doesn’t have this issue so could potentially ask for even more.

    If you don’t think this contract helps Freeman then you are an idiot. If you think it doesn’t then please, tell me all of Stafford’s many accomplishments over Freeman that clearly puts him in a different class of quarterback. (And, no, I don’t consider getting blown out in the wild card playoff game an accomplishment.)

  15. bucfanjeff Says:

    It IS about wins and losses, but explain to me how that’s ALL on the QB. ??

    Last I checked it was a team game and not a tennis singles match.

    People only talk about the QB because it’s the most scrutinized position and fans and media alike think we know it all.

    The truth and fact of the matter is that if you have a hard working, stay out of trouble, good in the community, big\physical QB with upside, you’re going to get paid. They just don’t grow on trees and many teams would LOVE to have Freeman. In today’s NFL, unless you flop completely (ie- J Russell), you get re-signed.

    Freeman WILL be your QB into the foreseeable future (barring an injury or J Russell type play of course)

  16. Andrew 1 Says:

    he should split half that money with Calvin Johnson because without him no way does he get that kind of contract. heck I doubt the lions would have even let him stick around.

  17. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    @WCBF

    You’re exactly right, this sets a new precedence. Freeman could potentially reach for more, especially if he has a monster season.

  18. FlBoy84 Says:

    That Detroit move was partly due to the teams failure to get a quality replacement backup QB to provide an option other than Stafford for the next few years. Never quite understood why teams undervalue the backup QB position so much. Green Bay’s drafting of Rodgers is a prime example of how to bring a young QB along and have him sit and develop over a few years and then either replace the QB you’ve got or trade him if needed. Not sure what the team has in Glennon, but I like the fact that they realize that they can’t stand pat at the position.

  19. [THE HANGOVER] The One Where We Discuss Archer’s Maturation, Longo’s Slump, And Why Longo Is Not An All-Star | Rays Index Says:

    [...] What does Matt Stafford’s new contract mean for Josh Freeman? [JoeBucsFan] [...]

  20. Couch Fan Says:

    Stafford’s of course resulted in a one-and-done playoff appearance so obviously that makes him WAY better than Freeman.

    —————————————————————————-

    No but the back to back 5000 yard season puts our “Franchise record breaking” Freeman’s one 4000 yard season to shame. Injury plagued or not.

    You are ALWAYS harping on Freeman’s stats and lofting him up higher than he should be because of his stats, now your saying he’s better than people with BETTER stats than him and coming up with MORE excuses as to way. Yes Calvin Jonson is a beast. V-jax and Mike Will arent slouches themselves….

    LMAO its hilarious how you are always contradicting yourself to loft Freeman to a level he doesnt belong. The excuses just never stop coming.

  21. Andrew 1 Says:

    kind of easy to do when you have the best WR in the league. I mean the guy is ALWAYS open. he even catches passes when triple teamed. I give most all of the credit for Staffords success to Calvin Johnson.

  22. Couch Fan Says:

    You give credit to Freeman for “the 9th ranked offense” in the league… but yet win it comes to wins and losses, it’s a “team game”. LOL. It’s clear that your bias. And that’s ok, its your right as a Bucs fan… but at least be consistent with your argument.

  23. robert Says:

    “If you don’t think this contract helps Freeman then you are an idiot.”

    My point this can be a problem when negotiating someone’s compensation and the person in consideration is basing their expectations off what someone else makes.

    i.e. they got xxx, so I deserve xxx

    The shrewd business owner sets the market, they do not chase the market. What this often times turns into is unrealistic expectations which can hurt the negotiating process. and in the end often times said person will take more money somewhere else only to see it be the end of their career because they were thrown into a $hit hole.

    It’s the CRAP organizations who MUST overpay. TB has over paired recently for some free agents, most of whom where worth close to that anyway. but now they are much more desirable and in a better bargaining position. Combine that with jfro 6 packs inability to live up to the billings of a franchise QB, others wanting his services because he’s better than what they have & they think they can fix him. and you have squat.

    goodbye jfro 6 pack….and don’t let the good door hit ya where the good lord split ya!

    (unless he lights it up and takes us to the playoffs)

  24. Couch Fan Says:

    kind of easy to do when you have the best WR in the league. I mean the guy is ALWAYS open. he even catches passes when triple teamed. I give most all of the credit for Staffords success to Calvin Johnson.

    ——————————————————————-

    I disagree. We both agree that Calvin is the best Receiver in the league. No doubt. But he’s the only receiver they have. There are plenty of way better QBs who have had more weapons and not come anywhere near a 5000 yard season. You can’t diminish that accomplishment by saying he has the best receiver in the league. You have to have some talent to do that.

  25. Couch Fan Says:

    Some of you dont like Robert and sometimes I can admit he sounds like a moron but what he just said is dead on. I would lose all respect for Dom if he were to give Freeman a contract based on Staffords instead of basing it on Freeman’s actual performance… which up to date is nowhere near worthy of 76 million.

  26. robert Says:

    thanks couch, I do sound like a moron most of the time, but I stayed @ a holiday inn express last night :-)

  27. Couch Fan Says:

    lol

  28. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch Fan

    “But he’s the only receiver they have”

    er wrong. hes the only receiver they NEED. with a player like that, a future hall of famer, thats all they NEED.

    Calvin Johnson 2012 stats- 122 receptions, 1964 YARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    if you do the math and take those 2000 yards away from Staffords numbers and replace it with 1000 yard reciever like say we have, you get a 4000 yard passer…like Freeman.

  29. Andrew 1 Says:

    face it Megatron make Stafford look better than he really is.

  30. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    good one Andrew !

  31. Fritz50 Says:

    “all but ensures he’s gone with anything short of a stellar season.”

    Bull pucky…the Bucs will dump Free not one second before they believe they have a better QB to replace him with. I’d really like to know who, out there, you think will be both better than Free & available. I , personally, feel thann Glennon has some potential, but a heck of a long way to go to realize it. And looks fragile to boot. You’re crazy if you think they’re gonna dump Free for Glennon one second before he proves, convincingly, thay he’s better. It does no good to drop Free, even with all the faults you say he has, if the replacement is worse. Anyone here remember the “Throwin Samoan” ? A prime example, of both cheap management ( may he rest in Hell ) and flawed player evaluation & developement.

  32. Andrew 1 Says:

    Im still pissed the Lions stole him from us lol

  33. DCBUCSFAN Says:

    Joe,

    I having been trying to cleanse my mind of that pic for quite sometime now.

    Thanks for making me start over! LoL

  34. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Freeman had seven more TDs than Stafford in 2012 and the same amount of interceptions. Oh, and Stafford has been with the same coach (and HOF receiver) his entire career.

    While Vjax and MikeWil are “no slouches”, Calvin Johnson just broke Jerry Rice’s receiving record. The guy is in a class of WR all to himself.

    I am always using his stats to loft him up higher than he should be? Really? Well, at least I use some evidence to come to my conclusions. What do you base your evaluations on? (Oh that’s right, you don’t evaluate, you just criticize posts.) I doubt it is game tape because the few fans here that have watched the tape all say Freeman catches way too much flak for last year.

    And yes, the quarterback has more to do with a “ninth ranked offense” than the win loss column. It IS a team game.

    The one consistent with you Couch Fan is your amazing ability to criticize every one else’s comments while never actually making your own. Hard to be wrong when you are only criticizing other’s opinions.

    @robert

    The market definitely dictates contracts, whether the GM likes it or not. Way back when the Raiders were paying Asomugha ridiculous cash for a CB it affected the market so much it is still being felt. When Revis was due for an extension with the Jets, despite how ludicrous Asomugha’s contract figures were, they negotiated based on that contract.

    Right now, the market dictates that even a mediocre quarterback is worth $15 million per year, at least, if he is being extended.

    And I am sorry but Freeman is not going anywhere until a viable replacement has been found. (And, no, Glennon is not considered a viable replacement at this point in time.)

  35. robert Says:

    Jay Cutler or a high 1st round pick and no more jfro next year

  36. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Also, keep in mind that Stafford was extended in a year that he regressed in nearly every statistical category, including the win-loss column.

  37. robert Says:

    Jay Cutler or a high 1st round pick in 2014 and jfro is outta here

  38. Couch Fan Says:

    @Andrew 1

    First of all… I’m still pissed they stole him AND Suh from us.

    Now having said that, you say…. “face it Megatron make Stafford look better than he really is.”

    I say, the same is true for V-Jax and Mike Will. They make Freeman look better than he really is.

  39. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    @Couch

    Then you could say Harrison and Wayne made Manning, or Jennings and Driver made Rodgers, c’mon one year …that’s all Freeman has had with Jackson and Williams. In a brand new system I may add.

  40. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch Fan

    they may make him look better… but not as much as Calvin Johnson would to ANY QB. if that were the case then Freeman would have the same numbers as Stafford, but the fact is he doesnt because CJ makes his QB look BETTER THAN V-Jack and Mike Williams combined. the proof is in the numbers. its thats simple. hes that good.

  41. Couch Fan Says:

    I am always using his stats to loft him up higher than he should be? Really? Well, at least I use some evidence to come to my conclusions. What do you base your evaluations on? (Oh that’s right, you don’t evaluate, you just criticize posts.)

    ————————————————————-

    I since some anger in your tone, I must of struck a nerve. After all it must be real hard to be called out on your BS. You say you use evidence? Well if 4000 yards and the 9th ranked offense in the league (oh and let’s not forget your constant blaming of the defense ineptness for all Freeman’s woes) is your “evidence” that he’s our Franchise QB then, ok?…

    I would say his overall record is more indicative of his Franchise worthy tag than his passing yards, and apparently most experts, who actually know what there talking about and actually know how to diagnose game tape (though im sure you and your expert fan opinions hold more weight than the pros) agree with me.

    Now last but not least, I dont criticize you or anyone else unless they criticize me first. You are entitled to your own opinion. I come here to debate with other Buc fans and thats what I am doing. Stop taking shit so personal.
    Whether we agree or disagree were all Buc Fans, or at least I hope so.

  42. Couch Fan Says:

    @Buc’n Junkie

    You just made my point for me. The argument Andrew 1 is using can be said for any QB in the league. Therefore its null and void.

  43. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch Fan

    let me put it this way, would you trade Mike Williams and V-Jax for Calvin Johnson? as much as like Williams and Jackson… I would.

  44. Couch Fan Says:

    Look, obviously CJ makes Stafford look better, he would make any one look better. But how much better would CJ make Freeman look than Both V-jax and Mike will? This is all speculation, nobody knows those answers so the facts is STAFFORD threw for 5000 yards regardless of who was catching the ball… 2 years in a row… thats pretty dam impressive and you can’t take that away from him simply because CJ is his receiver lol I’m not saying he is better than Freeman. But clearly he has just as much talent and he’s accomplished more so far… maybe not much, but its still true no less.

  45. Couch Fan Says:

    Trade both? No. I think I would decline that… I’d rather take my chances with 2 real good receivers instead of just 1 great one.

    If that great one gets injured… your done.

  46. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch Fan

    well thats were we differ. I would make that trade. i guess it all comes down to matter of opinion.

  47. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    The only point that has actually been made is that Calvin Johnson is *MEGATRON* and who’s or whatever team he could be on would make any and all QB’s including my son who plays pee wees like an all pro in passing yardage.

  48. Andrew 1 Says:

    @ Couch Fan

    no offense but I am taking that away from him because Calvin Johnson is his receiver… for all the reasons that I mentioned. if you disagree then thats your opinion.

  49. Couch Fan Says:

    What do you base your evaluations on? (Oh that’s right, you don’t evaluate, you just criticize posts.)

    ————————————————————

    Dont get criticizing confused with correcting. Lol, im joking, stop getting so butt hurt. I dont criticize I debate. Thats why I come here to talk and debate with other Buc fans. No reason to get defensive. Whether we agree or disagree were all Buc Fans and just want to see our team win.

  50. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I do agree that Stafford has accomplished more, slightly. I would add that he has been in a more favorable position for a quarterback to be in. Same HOF receiver and same head coach his entire pro career. This cannot be underestimated. BUT, when you factor in his injury issues, I would say that Stafford and Freeman have about the same value in terms of a contract. Not saying Freeman deserves the same contract Stafford just got. I am saying that Stafford probably wasn’t worth that contract but because he got it, Freeman will be seeking a similar one.

  51. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I got defensive because you compared my saying that Freeman was the leader of the offense with saying this is a team sport. Saying that those were contradictory statements. They are not, so I felt the need to correct. lol

  52. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    I’m with WCBF, I think Couch Fan should be the author of an original thought sometimes so the rest of us could “CORRECT” him.

  53. robert Says:

    all this talk about jfro 6 packs “value”……when it’s the EMPLOYER who sets his value.

    no one else, no agent, no market conditions, no draft status. nothing, period end of story.

    what they are WILLING to pay is his value here. other than that he can GTFO.

    and it aint 76 million right now. his value next year is ZERO right now or they would have resigned him already!

  54. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^^ at least that’s an original thought!

  55. Couch Fan Says:

    Don’t you know you cant correct a couch fan!

  56. Couch Fan Says:

    @Robert

    I think his value is a little higher than 0. His Value right now is exactly what we are paying him, (10mil and some change I believe?) otherwise, as you said he would of got his extension if they thought he was worth more.

  57. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    I’m starting too! lol

  58. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Hey WestCoast have you always lived on the west coast or did you live on the east coast at one time?

  59. robert Says:

    @ Couch

    that’s this year……..he’s not under contract next year

  60. Buddah Says:

    Stafford 2-19 vs. winning teams in his career. According to Joe that’s a
    no brainer. He isn’t now, nor will he ever be, an elite quarterback. He should not be signed. He’s had the number one receiver in pro football catching his passes. His career completion percentage is 1% higher than Freeman’s, though in the same system for four years and in a West Coast offense.. So why do they want to keep him, because they realize what few of Freeman’s critics realize: there are only a handful or fewer “elite” quarterbacks. You don’t have to have an elite quarterback to win a super bowl. Actually, I like Stafford and think he suffers from much the same problem that has plagued Freeman until this year–not enough good players on both sides of the ball and a pitiful offensive line.

  61. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Buc’n Junkie

    I grew up in Tampa. I lived there when we won that glorious Super Bowl in 2003. Been a Buc fan ever since. Didn’t really follow the team as closely though until the year Raheem took over. Ever since then I have been an addict for all things Bucs.

    @robert

    I am sorry but you are just flat out wrong. It is not even debatable. All of those things you mentioned, agent, market conditions, etc. they DO affect the price very much. Are you saying that Revis would have received that same contract from the Jets if Asomugha never received that ludicrous contract from the Raiders?

    I am sorry but you are high as a kite if you think contracts don’t affect other players. Why do you think Flacco, for a short time, was the highest paid quarterback in the league? He definitely is not or has ever been the best quarterback in the league so why was he compensated as such? Tony Romo? It is because of the market, not because the team was feeling generous.

  62. Buddah Says:

    So Stafford has accomplished more than Freeman because the Lions made the playoffs one year. Not good enough in my opinion. The Lions made the playoffs in a year that Stafford led them to one win against a winning team.
    Stafford’s career record in games that he’s started is 17-28, whereas Freeman’s is 24-32. Freeman has a better record, weak as it is against winning teams. Freeman had a better rating two of the four years. The difference between the two of them is negligible. Obviously, Stafford declined markedly last year.

  63. robert Says:

    @ westcoast

    your talking price; I am talking value

    big difference

    val·ue

    Noun

    The regard that something is held to deserve; the importance or preciousness of something: “your support is of great value”.

    only the employer can say what value they place on a player, and if that does not mesh with the price the player or agent set they say no thanks.

  64. robert Says:

    to summarize…the Lions value Stafford more than the bucs value jfro 6 pack

    and when jfro 6 pack sets his price based on Stafford they say GTFO

    and then they sign Cutler or a very high draft pick

  65. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    At least now, we will see if Stafford can live up to his new contract beginning this year. Because if he does not and he actually declines in numbers, you can bet that might also have an impact on Freeman next year. Especially if Josh has mediocre season stats wise but yet we still finish 10-6 or better.

    The reason I said 10-6 or better is I’m not all convinced the Bucs wouldn’t set their own price. Practically take it or leave it. just like, Man, I hate to say this, robert said. lol

  66. Jay826 Says:

    Another thing to pay close attention to is the Victor Cruz signing. Has major implications on Mike Williams’ new deal!

  67. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    If Freeman has a monster season then of course he will carve his own destiny.

  68. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Buddah

    If we are talking about “accomplishments”, then yes. Freeman and Stafford have both been pro bowl alternates. They both had 10-6 seasons. It just so happens that 10-6 was good enough for the Lions and not for the Bucs. (Stafford also had a 40+ TD season. An impressive feat.)

    This means that, yes, Stafford is more “accomplished” than Freeman, albeit, by a very, VERY, VERY slight margin as that one playoff game was a blowout loss. In terms of talent as quarterback? That is a different debate entirely and not one that I would really like to get into. (Although, if you tempt me, I might.)

    @robert

    Do you think the Cowboys “value” Romo at ~$15 million a season? ($40 Million guaranteed.) Do you think the Raven’s “value” Flacco at roughly $20 million a season? He is a great quarterback, no doubt, but not the best. BUT they had to pay him MORE THAN HIS VALUE because the market dictated it. Teams simply decide if they want a player or not. Once that is determined, the market sets their monetary “value”. If they have the money, the team pays them, if not, they walk. Just because a player isn’t given an extension doesn’t mean they have no “value” to the team. A lot more goes into this than just deciding to pay a player or not. Right now, the Bucs are paying Freeman ~$10 million for this season. Obviously they believe he has at least that much “value”.

    Cutler . . . SMDH, really?

  69. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Teams often pay more than the “value” they place on a player simply because of the alternatives. In Freeman’s, and Stafford’s, case, there are none. As long as Freeman doesn’t have the worst year of his career, he will be resigned or tagged, regardless of “value”, because of the alternatives. They will most likely pay him much more than his perceived “value” in this process.

  70. Buc1987 Says:

    Okay I have to break my silence on the other f-word. I just plunked down a $100.00 of my own hard earned money on a new Freeman jersey. Why? Because I guaran-fing-tee he WILL be our QB in 2014 and beyond. So the haters can just hate all they want. It’s not like any of you will be around after the season for me to say I told you so. So now I have 100 bucks worth of confidence in Josh. blah blah blah. Might get the wife one too.

  71. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Stafford has always crap O-line. I’m sure he would trade about 10mil off that for who Freeman has in front of him.

    And, running back? He would love to have a Doug Martin to take the pressure off.

    Sure, he has Megatron but that’s it. VJax does a fairly good job of being Freeman’s safety blanket. But, Freeman has a complete offense, line and weapons.

  72. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    One thing we all can agree upon is whatever happens this year, Freeman controls his own destiny. Crap or get off the pot. :)

  73. robert Says:

    @ westcoast

    EVERYONE is replaceable. I can’t fathom how you think jfro could still have a job if he has his worst year yet just because there is not someone better waiting for his job.

    I’ve already given you 2 alternatives. Cutler, high 1st round pick…and here’s a 3rd. Glennon

    accept the fact the jfro, 6 pack is replaceable …ESPECIALLY if he struggles. he’s last weeks tuna sandwich then.

  74. Buc1987 Says:

    All of the haters comments are just pure LAUGHABLE. I’m gonna copy, paste and save some of all your foolish comments. Then in spite of you being Buc fans I’m gonna cram them down your throats come playoff time.

  75. Couch Fan Says:

    @Buc1987

    Go for it… I hope I am wrong cuz that would mean were finally winning meaningful football games come December and January.

    Either way I’ll be here to admit I was wrong or to “Cram it down your throat”

  76. robert Says:

    too much throat cramming talk going on :-o

  77. Fritz50 Says:

    “I’ve already given you 2 alternatives. Cutler, high 1st round pick…and here’s a 3rd. Glennon”

    Obviously, YOU think Cutler & Glennon are a better choice than Free. I just question how many others do. If Glennon were that good He’da been taken higher than 3rd round. And if Cutler were that much better, in the Bucs eyes, he’d already be here, after all he’s been available during Freeman’s tenure, & the Bucs declined to go after him. I’m sure you’ve worked out your excuses why they didn’t, but the bottom line is they made no effort at all to go after him.

  78. Almighty Buc Says:

    I think we can all thank the Ravens and the contract they gave Flacco. Its trickling down to all the other QBs ..

  79. robert Says:

    Joe Montana
    Russell Wilson
    Dan Fouts

    all 3rd round draft picks. not sayin’, just sayin’

  80. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Just like the blind squirrel, even they can get lucky and find an acorn once in a while. But the majority of your starting QB’s throughout history as far back as the merger were first round draft picks.

  81. PRBucFan Says:

    One thing our organization has always proven is that they hold the “leverage” and that no player will dictate the decisions they make.

    They will worry about an extension and the amount of that extension when Free gives them a reason to crack open their wallets.

    They knew the probability was high that they could have gotten him alot cheaper earlier if they decided to commit to him but they decided to wait and see.

    I trust the decision, it’s all up to Josh now and I’m sure the FO wants more than anything for Free to give them that reason to crack open their wallet lol.

  82. stevek Says:

    Freeman is not as valuable as Matt Stafford.

    Freeman will not be paid Matt Stafford type money, unless he takes us to the playoffs.

    We can draft a QB, pay them less, and get more production.

    We are not pidgeon holed into extending an “Enigma”, a “teetering” one at that.

  83. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    You know, for all the people claiming to be tired of the Freeman-related articles, they sure do get a lot of comments.

    I don’t have a problem with Stafford getting this contract. It’s the Lion’s money, they can spend it how they want. And if Superbowl winning QBs are getting $100 mil, this seems proper for a good QB.

    So far as Freeman, he WILL be franchised next year if the Bucs do not announce an extension before this season starts. They won’t have to honor the tag…they’ll work out a contract before they have to pay it.

    robert Says:
    “…even to a third grader like me.”

    Somehow that makes you more tolerable.

  84. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    robert Says:
    “Joe Montana
    Russell Wilson
    Dan Fouts

    all 3rd round draft picks. not sayin’, just sayin’”

    Ahem…almost too easy.

    Giovanni Carmazzi
    Chris Simms
    Charlie Frye

    I could go on. You’re young, do the research.

  85. mpmalloy Says:

    All of the haters comments are just pure LAUGHABLE. In spite of you being Buc fans I’m gonna cram them down your throats come playoff time.

    Josh?

  86. mpmalloy Says:

    You know, for all the people claiming to be tired of the Freeman-related articles, they sure do get a lot of comments.

    I ain’t sayin’ nuthin’, bro.

  87. Couch Fan Says:

    There is nothing else to talk about for the next 2 weeks, Freeman articles seem to be the only things keeping us going lol. Season cant come quick enough.

  88. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Stevek

    We can draft a QB, pay them less, and get more production.

    I am sorry but no. Unless it is a top ten pick, there is no quarterback we can draft that will give us more production for certain.

    What is it with these “fans” that believe good quarterbacks are lining up to take us to a Super Bowl? In 37 years, Freeman is the best quarterback, statistically, in franchise history. Given how “Dalton-like” those numbers are you would think some of us would understand what a terrible quarterback actually looks like AND how hard it is to even find a mediocre one. But no, Freeman isn’t Tom Brady so lets cut bait and spend the next decade trying to find someone even good enough to be considered an “enigma”. Seems logical.

    Freeman is not as valuable as Matt Stafford.

    What has Stafford done exactly? One playoff appearance from a ten win season in which his team was promptly blown out? Spent his first two seasons injured? Regressed after a ten win season? <<(Sound familiar?) His team made the wild card on the same amount of wins that our team missed them. Then promptly showed they didn't deserve to be there by getting blown out and then only amassing four wins the following year. <<(Sound familiar?)

    Am I the only one that is blown away by the "fans" that think Freeman could be easily replaced by the likes of a third round rookie or *GULP* CUTLER?! The only way Freeman is replaced is if we have a pick high enough to draft his replacement.

    @robert

    Nice list by the way. It is good to know that in almost 100 years of professional football. Three third round rookies have panned out. That is very reassuring. Maybe Glennon will be the next Montana . . .

  89. Vern4499 Says:

    Stevek,

    You say it’s all about wins and losses right? Free has a better winning percentage than Stafford right? Please explain how he is not as valuable? Thank you sir!

  90. PRBucFan Says:

    Can I be in on where people are getting these crystal balls from?

  91. Mcbuc Says:

    Couch. You must not respect 32 gms in the nfl, there is a reason joe always writes about a contract effecting everyone else at the same position that are up for an extension. The nfl is not like hiring office employees, the two are not comparable.

  92. Couch Fan Says:

    Am I the only one that is blown away by the “fans” that think Freeman could be easily replaced by the likes of a third round rookie or *GULP* CUTLER?! The only way Freeman is replaced is if we have a pick high enough to draft his replacement.

    —————————————————————–

    No there are other blind fans out there who are smitten with Freeman and convinced the stats tell the whole story. To bad nice stats dont equal wins.

    Whether you want to admit it or not, it’s not that difficult to find someone who can get us an average of 6 wins a year. All the stats in the world wont help him if all he does is get 6 or 7 more wins this year.

    Freeman gets paid to win. Not to throw for a certain amount of yards. Another subpar season and he is gone regardless of what the blind try to state as “facts”

  93. JonBuc Says:

    I agree with the Jay Cutler prediction above. Dom tried his arse off to get him several offseasons ago…

  94. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^for that to happen it all has to be Freemans fault. If he continues to put up great stats but we continue to lose because of mistakes out of his control. He will get that extension.

  95. Couch Fan Says:

    ^^ I disagree but we shall see in just a few short weeks!

  96. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I simply can’t believe the mentality of people that think there is a line of eligible quarterbacks waiting outside OBP to take us to a Super Bowl. Where is the logic here?

    If Freeman is replaceable then by who? You think we will have a pick high enough in 2014 to draft a decent QB? EJ Manuel and Geno Smith were the QBs we could have had a crack at. Is that what you want? Smith or Manuel to replace Freeman? Tell me please because with the talent, excluding Freeman, on this team I don’t see us getting a top ten pick for a long time.

  97. Couch Fan Says:

    Couch. You must not respect 32 gms in the nfl, there is a reason joe always writes about a contract effecting everyone else at the same position that are up for an extension. The nfl is not like hiring office employees, the two are not comparable.

    ———————————————-

    I think your confusing me with someone else who said Staffords contract doesnt effect Freeman. Of course it does because it gives Dom an outline to work with.

    What I did say was I would lose respect for Dom if he gave Freeman Stafford type money simply because Stafford makes that much instead of basing Freeman’s contract on his own play… which is nowhere near worthy of 76 million

  98. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    at least we agree to disagree :)

  99. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Couch Fan

    The few people here that have watched tape think that stats don’t do Freeman justice. Just ask BamBamBuc or chris. (Not the roof cleaning chris.) I am not basing my judgement of Freeman on stats but on his play. Although, I do use stats to back what I have seen. As do most people.

  100. Kevin Says:

    Love the point this article brings up….DAMN NEAR ANYBODY would say “Yeah I’ll take Stafford” but damn near everyone will say “FREEMAN SUCKS OR IS AN AVERAGE QB” I can’t wait for him to prove all these haters wrong this season. My money is on him beating out MATTY ICE in yards/ints/tds and the Falcons miss the playoffs this year

  101. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    99 comments on Freeman. This is becoming normal.

  102. Couch Fan Says:

    @West Coast

    I’m with Robert when I say its very odd you think we need a top draft pick to replace Freeman. 6 wins a year isnt irreplaceable. 4000 yards isnt irreplaceable.

    You keep saying “Who is going to replace him?” I dont have that answer right now, nor have I ever said he needs to be replaced right now. He’s our QB this year, BUT if he only managers another 6 or 7 wins with the talent on this roster…. He’s gone NEXT year.

    You think he’s irreplaceable but most experts agree with me and most non bias fans agree with me. But you know what? My opinion means nothing, your opinion means nothing and the experts opinion means nothing…. However the 2 opinions who do matter? Schiano And Dom, clearly agree with me as well… if they were so convinced that he’s the future, as you do…. he would be extended right now.

    A Good QB is hard to replace… a 6 win QB is not that hard to replace. Simple as that.

    I think it was LighteningBuc who said it right, you either have a franchise QB or your looking for one… right now were still looking. Hopefully Freeman makes us a believer this year and takes that franchise designation… but stop acting like he has already done that.

  103. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Wins are a product of a team effort. If the QB were the only person responsible for wins and losses then Stafford and Brees would be considered horrible quarterbacks. Stafford has a worse win/loss record than Freeman. If that is all that matters, why was Stafford extended?

    Flacco and Brees both played out the final year of their contracts. Do you think those teams lacked faith in their QBs? Is that why they were not extended? I am sorry but a lack of an extension proves nothing.

  104. chris Says:

    So if Stafford got a 5 year $76 million……then that does NOT mean the Bucs should make the same mistake.

    Detroit;s GM is making a risky risky move. And I mean, his job is on the line because of it. Freeman and Stafford have had similar career paths. To me, it’s hard to distinguish the better of the two because both are erratic. Stafford has the fortune of Megatron, who is difficult to cover, even double team.

    I’ll this: If Freeman takes us to the playoffs and we get bounced round 1, we don’t resign him. No. Franchise him, take the 15-16 million hit and make him prove it again. 2010 fooled us 2011 and 2012. Unless he wins us a Super Bowl this year, I would not lock Freeman up long term unless he does it two years in a row(playoffs)/.

  105. BigMacAttack Says:

    Josh shaved his head for the kids and he will perform like the Man of Steel. I think Josh is going to t-totally light it up this year. I was a little worried about Josh before the Draft, but then things changed. First and foremost is the fact he gets his O line back, which is huge. Doug Martin can’t help but be better and I think they strengthened his backups. I just like everything about their offense and defense now with these new signings and picks. I cannot wait for the Season to start.

    And I know Michael Jackson became a psychotic freak, but I loved his music (coming from a redneck) and I think the Josh Freeman pics as MJ were fantastic. He really pulled it off and I don’t anyone else that could that well. When the NFL tells you to do something like that, you do it. Everyone has to do their part to promote the brand. I keep hearing “Off the Wall” in my head.

  106. BigMacAttack Says:

    Sorry for all my mistakes. I should proof read but don’t, just hit submit. Selfish behavior I know, apologies.

    Let’s get this Party started!
    Go Bucs!!!

  107. Buddah Says:

    Freeman is extremely talented. (Consensus View).

    Freeman is inconsistent. (Consensus View).

    Going into Game 10 last year, Freeman was playing outstanding football and ranked among the top 8-10 quarterbacks in the league. (Consensus).

    Points of disagreement:

    The five game losing streak was primarily Freeman’s fault.

    The five game losing streak was primarily due to the league’s worst pass defense.

    On four occasions during the season, Freeman led the offense to a go-ahead score in the fourth quarter only to have the other team score last with little or no time left on the clock.

    Myth: Freeman buckles under pressure: Two touchdowns in the fourth quarter against New Orleans; Go ahead field goal with 2 minutes left against Washington; Tying and winning touchdowns against Carolina in the fourth quarter and overtime; 5 consecutive first downs on 3rd down passes against Minnesota to preserve the victory; Go ahead touchdown against Philadelphia in the 4th quarter; Go ahead touchdown against Atlanta in the fourth quarter of both games;

    The fact is that Freeman has two very ugly games, one against New Orleans and the other against St. Louis. We weren’t going to beat New Orleans regardless–Brees carved up our secondary all day like it was chopped liver. St Louis is truly the only game that can be put on Freeman. Would we have won the two games against Carolina without Freeman–doubtful; would we have won the the games against San Diego or Oakland without Freeman–doubtful; There were four games we could have won because of Freeman; won we lost because of him; and three or four we won because of him.

    Any arguments regarding Glennon are pure speculation. Nobody knows what he will be, but we have a long franchise history of developing quarterbacks then discarding them right before they are about to take off.

    I’m not worried because the chances are 80/20 that Freeman will be signed, possibly before the start of the season. If they don’t sign him, they will franchise him.

  108. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    @Couch Fan

    You are speculating that Schiano and Dom agree with you over the reasons why it was not important to extend Josh this year. I never heard either say what you claim. Pure speculation…

  109. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I agree with Buc’n Junkie.

    Couch Fan, you are making the VERY BROAD assumption that Schiano and Dom agree with you based purely on Freeman not having an extension already. Great players play out the final year of their contracts all the time. It is no indication of how a team views a player. Unless you think the Saints had their doubts about Drew Brees? Brian Orakpo is in the final year of his contract as well. So is Geno Atkins. Do you think this clearly shows that these teams are not confident in their players?

    Have you ever once stopped and thought that maybe Freeman believes he can have a career year in 2013 and thus declined any sort of an extension? How about that maybe Dom knows Freeman will command much more than his current salary so waiting as long as possible to sign him makes fiscal sense? Or does it just have to be that Dom and Schiano don’t trust or believe in him? Is that the only option here?

  110. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    I think Dominik and Schiano wanted this year ( 2 years in the same system) to get a true feeling on what his future worth may be. Instead of concentrating on contract talks, they want Josh to concentrate on the season and allow his play to dictate what his worth maybe. If he crashes badly then we know what would happen but if he breaks out they will have a better feel for what a long term contract should be worth. Josh can write his own paycheck if he puts it together!

  111. Couch Fan Says:

    Again you are comparing Drew Breese to Freeman. Stop that! New Orleans was in a cap crunch. They had to let people go (Carl Nicks?) to get enough money to sign Breese. Breese is a super bowl winning QB. He has won multiple division titles. Freeman’s situation can NOT be compared to that. New Orleans waited not because they werent sure about Breese, but because they had tough choises to make in order to resign him.

    Tampa is NOT in a cap crunch. We have plenty of room to resign him this year and if we truely believed he was “the guy” we would have paid him whatever he wanted, just like Revis. Only you would try to spin it any other way Lol

    Please stop bringing up Brees.

  112. Couch Fan Says:

    Josh can write his own paycheck if he puts it together!

    ——————————————————-

    Thats all im saying. Up until this point Freeman hasent put it all together yet. Dom and Schiano are no more certain that Freeman is there QB of the future than we are. It’s all up to Josh. I’m not predicting a losing season based on this year, im basing my opinion on what I’ve already seen… not what were about to see…. it’s all up to Josh to prove his worth. So far he’s not worthy of 76 million, maybe thatll change this year. Im hoping so

  113. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    now this we finally agree on… yea!!!!

  114. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I am not sure why you can’t grasp the fact that two players that play the same position are, by definition, comparable. Just because I say the names “Freeman” and “Brees” in a sentence together doesn’t mean I think one is automatically as good as the other. If I said, “Freeman is not as good as Brees”, is there anything wrong with that? Is it not a universally agreeable “comparison”? The only reason you even consider a player good or bad is by relation to other players that play the same position. There is no other way to evaluate. The only reason we know how bad Chad Henne is is because we know how great Tom Brady is. See how that works?

    Moving right along, I am saying that Brees’ lack of an extension isn’t any more of an indicator to how the team feels than Freeman’s lack of an extension. It doesn’t mean ANYTHING. Teams wait on the final year of player’s contracts, good and bad, all the time for various reasons. To say that Schiano and Dom agree with you is pure speculation and asinine as there are multiple reasons for a lack of an extension, not just the one that best suits your argument.

  115. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    And you miss the point entirely, again. The lack of a contract extension proves nothing. The Brees comparison was only of the financial situation.

    I am not sure why you can’t grasp the fact that two players that play the same position are, by definition, comparable. Just because I say the names “Freeman” and “Brees” in a sentence together doesn’t mean I think one is automatically as good as the other. If I said, “Freeman is not as good as Brees”, is there anything wrong with that? Is it not a universally agree-able “comparison”? The only reason you even consider a player good or bad is by relation to other players at the same position. There is no other way to evaluate. The only reason we know how bad Chad Henne is is because we know how great Tom Brady is. See how that works?

    Moving right along, I am saying that Brees’ lack of an extension isn’t any more of an indicator to how the team feels than Freeman’s lack of an extension. It doesn’t mean ANYTHING. Teams wait on the final year of player’s contracts, good and bad, all the time for various reasons. To say that Schiano and Dom agree with you is pure speculation and asinine as there are multiple reasons for a lack of an extension, not just the one that best suits your argument.

  116. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    And you miss the point entirely, again. The lack of a contract extension proves nothing. The Brees comparison was only of the financial situation.

    I am not sure why you can’t grasp the fact that two players that play the same position are, by definition, comparable. Just because I say the names “Freeman” and “Brees” in a sentence together doesn’t mean I think one is automatically as good as the other. If I said, “Freeman is not as good as Brees”, is there anything wrong with that? Is it not a universally agreeable “comparison”? The only reason you even consider a player good or bad is by rel-ation to other players at the same position. There is no other way to evaluate. The only reason we know how bad Chad Henne is is because we know how great Tom Brady is. See how that works?

    Moving right along, I am saying that Brees’ lack of an extension isn’t any more of an indicator to how the team feels than Freeman’s lack of an extension. It doesn’t mean ANYTHING. Teams wait on the final year of player’s contracts, good and bad, all the time for various reasons. To say that Schiano and Dom agree with you is pure speculation and asinine as there are multiple reasons for a lack of an extension, not just the one that best suits your argument.

  117. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    And you miss the point entirely, again. The lack of a contract extension proves nothing. The Brees comparison was only of the financial situation.

    I am not sure why you can’t grasp the fact that two players that play the same position are, by definition, comparable. Just because I say the names “Freeman” and “Brees” in a sentence together doesn’t mean I think one is automatically as good as the other. If I said, “Freeman is not as good as Brees”, is there anything wrong with that? Is it not a universally agreeable “comparison”? The only reason you even consider a player good or bad is by relation to other players at the same position. There is no other way to evaluate. The only reason we know how bad Chad Henne is is because we know how great To-m Bra-dy is. See how that works?

    Moving right along, I am saying that Brees’ lack of an extension isn’t any more of an indicator to how the team feels than Freeman’s lack of an extension. It doesn’t mean ANYTHING. Teams wait on the final year of player’s contracts, good and bad, all the time for various reasons. To say that Schiano and Dom agree with you is pure speculation and asinine as there are multiple reasons for a lack of an extension, not just the one that best suits your argument.

  118. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Ladies and gentleman, I present, the worst filters in the existence of man kind. The name “Tom Bra-dy” is apparently blocked.

  119. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    ^^Without the hyphen of course. I would be interested to know if I am the only one not allowed to use the words “Bra-dy” and “Ja-y” without hyphens. That would just be the cherry on top.

  120. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Brady

  121. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    You’re right Bra-dy was blocked

  122. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    Must be blasphemy in Joe eyes. lol

  123. Bobby Says:

    That photo still makes me throw up in my mouth a little…..

  124. Chris@Apple Says:

    Detroit was stupid to give Stafford all that money.
    This deal probably assures Freeman leaving Tampa, after this year.
    I just do not see Tampa paying this kind of money for Freeman, ever!

  125. SteveK Says:

    WCBF,

    I had a hard time trying to lock onto your small novel above. I did see the “Brees” and “Freeman” comparison, based on position, and something about “the nature of not getting an extension sooner”.

    2 Completely different situations:

    Bucs- drafted a QB in the 3rd round to develop for “depth”, have 18 million in cap room

    Saints: bounty gate, not much cap room, and making Brees a rich sumbitch.

    Brees brought a Super Bowl to No’Leans, Freeman brings us a hot start and a 5+ game losing streak the last two campaigns.

    You can only sell hot sh!t so many ways, if Freeman stinks this year: GOOD BYE.

    We can try another QB in 2014, even Captain Tim’s boy, Big Bird.

  126. SteveK Says:

    T0M Brady Quin

  127. Buc'n Junkie Says:

    ^^^^the losses will have to be completely freeman fault for that to happen.

  128. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    I give up. The horse is starting to smell. If you still don’t get it then the words to explain it don’t exist.

  129. Mean D Says:

    Lord! There is no doubt about it. WCBF wants to have Freeman’s baby!

  130. john Says:

    am i the only one who thinks he dosent like white qb’s that chaching???

  131. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    You got it! We would name it “Mean D”. A fitting name for a child. Don’t you agree?

    A troll is a troll is a troll! I actually feel pity for you because I can’t imagine how pathetic your life must be that you feel the need to hurl childish insults in a place where (mostly) men talk about football. It’s okay though, you do what you need to do. I will be here if you decide you want have a grown up conversation.

  132. delson Says:

    http://nflsfuture.com/2013/07/10/roster-report-tampa-bay-bucs-new-kings-of-the-south-2/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+nflsfuturecom+%28NFL%27s+Future%29

  133. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @Stevek

    How about the countless players every year that go into their final year before being extended? The lack of an extension proves nothing. Geno Atkins has been a monster since he was drafted and has been grossly under paid. He too is going into the final year of his contract. It means nothing other than the fact that a team is willing to use a franchise tag if necessary as well as preserving cap space into the future. Besides that, in any situation, if I was a GM I would wait until the last possible moment before giving someone a huge raise. It gives you the most time to evaluate all your options and structure a contract in a way that best suits the team.

    All this to say that it is certainly possible that they don’t believe Freeman and plan to let him walk after 2013, who knows? But the fact that he hasn’t already been extended proves absolutely nothing either way. Saying that it does is nothing more than pure speculation.

  134. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    @delson

    Whatever is in that link is busted. I just get a “Error establishing a database connection” message.

  135. delson Says:

    Go to the site nflsfuture.com and read the roster report new kings of the nfc south story.

  136. BamBamBuc Says:

    To correct the myth that it’s “easy” to replace a QB averaging 6 wins with a pick later than 10th overall…

    From 2001 to 2011 (I avoided 2012 as there isn’t an “average” to use) there were 143 QBs drafted. Discounting those drafted in the top 10, only a handful have had any success, and very few average more than 6 wins per year.

    Dalton and Ponder must be considered, with limited time (Ponder’s average is 6)
    Joe Flacco was drafted 18th
    Jay Cutler drafted 11th
    Aaron Rodgers 24th
    Ben Roethlisberger 11th
    Matt Schaub 90th
    Drew Brees 32nd

    That’s maybe 8 (including Ponder and Dalton) in 10 years and 143 QBs (minus top 10 picks). 18 were top 10 picks, so 8 out of 125 picks. We are talking less than a 7% chance of finding a QB after pick 10 that will average more than 6 wins per season. If I include the top 10 picks that didn’t average 6 wins (Jamarcus Russell, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, Matthew Stafford, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith, Byron Leftwich, David Carr, Joey Harrington) the percentage shrinks more. It’s about a 5-6% chance of finding a QB to get more than 6 wins a season after the 10th pick in the draft. These are NOT stats, they are FACTS. Actual win/loss records of QBs picked over that time frame. If the win/loss record is tied to the QB alone, very few make the grade. Forget the fact that the Raiders were horrible with or without Russell. The Cardinals were pitiful with anyone other than Warner. And the Lions haven’t been able to find a QB in their history that can win games without Barry Sanders. All of that means nothing because the QB wins and loses games all by themselves and they’re easy to replace.

    If you don’t like stats, fine… I can accept that. But don’t whine about “3 and outs” when it’s simply not true, even watching the games. Don’t complain about completion % (a stat) if you don’t know how many “drops” (not yet an official stat, but easy to see).

    I will say this. I do NOT credit Freeman for the 9th ranked offense, I credit the OFFENSE. That would include Martin, Jackson, Williams, Clark, etc…. as well as Freeman. Just like I don’t put the 32nd ranked pass defense on EJ Biggers shoulders, when it was Leonard Johnson, Danny Gorrer, and every other member of the defense that garnered that ranking. I also don’t credit or discredit any ONE player for the win/loss record, no matter how “important” they are to the team or the outcome of games. It is a TEAM game and if some parts of that team are bad enough, it doesn’t matter how good the other parts are. Freeman did not help the TEAM win 2 games last year. Every other game, he did his part. Could he have done more? Maybe, but he did what he needed to, other parts of the team did not. Asking one part of the team (QB) to do more than “enough” on a consistent basis leads to one thing and one thing only… the perception of inconsistency because they can’t exceed expectations consistently. Well, maybe expectations are skewed. Maybe we should expect him to have a lead in the 4th quarter, not to hold it or have such an incredible lead that it can’t be overcome no matter how bad the defense is. Inconsistency of being exceptional is very common, even if he is consistently good enough.

  137. WestCoastBucsFan Says:

    Now those are some facts. Good post BamBamBuc. That is what I was trying to explain (that QBs are not easy to find) but only you can explain it in an uncontested manner.

  138. delson Says:

    Jay cutler to tampa bay is a huge no no. Schiano wont let that happen. Talk about a locker room distraction. Freeman is up and coming in this offense. His big arm didnt match the west coast o greg imposed freeman was saved by shiano n sullivan. I was growing tired of tampa bays lack of starpower n free agency sit outs but we will be talkin super bowl in two years if not in december and january. No lie tho i like our teams chances. I watched bowers highlights of his clemson days n he can read n react to plays cant wait to see a full season with him. Spence is the strongest dt to come out the draft. Star has weight but spence can use his power and quickness. Watsons blitzing abilities and coverage abilities should give him the starting strongside position. Cant wait for the season thats for damn sure and i hope these doubters will be praising free after this year. I dont care bout his stats but more the learning curve it took to become a rookie again cuz of a new offense n have success. This is a team sport n his consistency played a role in our weak pass d. If our offense cant rest our d with long drives they will get tired and above average qbs can expose that. Free went how long season before last to put together game opening drives into tds but look last year free did that consistently. No more two runs and a pass we need to be multidimensional onfirst and second downs. Thats playcalling thats a team sport. My understandings hopefully my fellow buc fans as well

  139. scubog Says:

    And the debate rages on between those that at least have some sense and the JFro six.

  140. mpmalloy Says:

    Prediction:
    Freeman will go down in history as the greatest Buccaneer QB ever.

    Yeah……how do you like me now?

 
 

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