What About The Clean Slate?

October 16th, 2012

Joe hears so many of his media colleagues shouting from rooftops and typing with vigor while calling for the immediate jettisoning of Aqib Talib.

They’re calling Greg Schiano a hypocrite. They demand to know how the New Schiano Order mantra of “Trust, Belief and Accountability” could possibly include suspended Talib’s return in a few weeks. 

Tampa Bay Times columnist/WDAE-AM 620 host Tom Jones even said this morning that Talib’s situation is very simple, “like a dog peeing on the rug,” and that dog needs to be leashed and taken outside otherwise he’ll continue to soil the house.

Joe gets the passion, and Joe wouldn’t cry if Talib is cut tomorrow. Not at all. But Joe hardly believes that Schiano isn’t capable of making Talib “accountable” without cutting him.

Does anyone really believe that’s not possible? If so, Joe’s got magic beans to sell you.

Also, there’s that concept of a clean slate for players that Schiano talked about many times in the offseason. Players’ commitment levels were evaluated to a high standard for more than six months, and then decisions were made on who stayed.

Talib earned a spot in the new family of “Buccaneer Men” and got high marks for his commitment. His slate was clean for this regime. That’s got to mean something and not just be talk.

Yes, Talib has dirtied his slate. But for all Joe knows, Talib’s teammates want him back, his captains want him back, and his coach already has explained how Talib will be made accountable before his return, perhaps a new conditioning test and more, and perhaps Talib will be made to earn his job back if he gets back on the roster.

Again, the concept that Talib can’t be held accountable without getting cut his ludicrous. Holding a teammate, family member or co-worker accountable is rarely about kicking them out of your world.

And then there’s that accountability to fans. Yeah, lots of fans want Talib gone, but that won’t help the Bucs if they need him late in the season, or if Talib is on another team shutting down Mike Williams in a key game. There also are lots of fans that don’t care about the drama and just want to see the best players on the field. Increasing Myron Lewis’ role is not Joe’s idea of “accountability.”

Joe still cares most about winning. Talib is an idiot, yes, but not a sleaze like Jerramy Stevens. For Joe, there’s a big difference there.

41 Responses to “What About The Clean Slate?”

  1. Jrock Says:

    The trade deadline isn’t for another two weeks, amirite? Is there a reason why there’s been no talk of a trade and lots of talk of a release? Seems to me someone around the league would pay something for an above-average talent with some baggage. The raiders come to mind…

  2. McBuc Says:

    Agreed Joe. At first my knee jerk reaction was cut him, because I was pissed that it might effect the KC game. Biggers played well, so I guess I am no longer mad. You bring up a great point, if the coach goes back on the “clean slate”, then he will lose the trust of the rest of the team. it will send a message that some may not really have a clean slate. I guess Talib gets one more chance, but I will be surprised if he returns next year. It really is unfortunate that this young man keeps making bad decisions.

  3. McBuc Says:

    Jrock, it has only been fans and media calling for his release. The team seems to be standing by their troubled corner.

  4. OAR Says:

    “Tampa Bay Times columnist/WDAE-AM 620 host Tom Jones even said this morning that Talib’s situation is very simple, ”like a dog peeing on the rug,” and that dog needs to be leashed and taken outside otherwise he’ll continue to soil the house.”
    Or you can TEACH the dog to only pee when you take him outside! Unless your Micheal Vick, then you just kill the dog! What a stupid comparison!

  5. OAR Says:

    McBuc
    Ditto on both your posts.

  6. bucsfaninchina Says:

    Nice look at all the angles of exactly what “accountability” means here. Schiano is now in a position where no matter what his decision is it will go against some principle or will piss off fans in some way. Based on his past I would prefer castration to seeing Biggers on the field as our CB2, possibly CB1 if Wright continues to battle to stay on the field.
    It all comes down to Talib. He has bought in and screwed up. If he walks the line during and after his suspension I would be amazed if Schiano cuts the guy, seeing as to how the bucs are now #2 in the division. Regardless, bucs need to draft or trade or do something to rely less on this problem child.

  7. bucsfaninchina Says:

    Nice look at all the angles of exactly what “accountability” means here. Schiano is now in a position where no matter what his decision is it will go against some principle or will piss off fans in some way. Based on his past I would prefer castration to seeing Biggers on the field as our CB2, possibly CB1 if Wright continues to battle to stay on the field.
    It all comes down to Talib. He has bought in and screwed up. If he walks the line during and after his suspension I would be amazed if Schiano cuts the guy, seeing as to how the bucs are now #2 in the division. Regardless, bucs need to draft or trade or do something to rely less on this problem child.

  8. Larry Says:

    hmmm maybe we should tar & feather Talib. After all, Adderall is a very dangerous substance. If it wasn’t Adderall then someone on the Buc’s should know exactly what the substance was that he used, even if it’s not revealed to the media. If it were something bad, Sciano would have had a different attitude.

  9. RCH Says:

    Looks like Talib has some extra time to go back to Texas and get his gang banning out the way so he can come back focused and ready to finish the season strong. Go Bucs!!!

  10. Macabee Says:

    I listened to Tom Jones on 620WDAE this morning and I read his column in TBT. I disagree emphatically. Tom wants a rage cut and no good business decision that affects the bottom line or one that has ramifications beyond the principals involved should be made in anger.

    I don’t trust Talib, but I do trust Schiano. There were reports that there was a conditional 5th round pick out there when Briscoe was summarily released. I can’t verify that but I know a good businessman weighs all the options available and selects the one that benefits himself and his business even when those benefits aren’t apparent to the casual observer.

    Then too, there may be facts in evidence concerning Talib that we and Tom Jones aren’t aware of. The league doesn’t make public the details of a suspension and Schiano is under no obligation to do so either. Schiano is a principled man who isn’t afraid to cut a player he thinks is not on his team evidenced by the Winslow, Price, and Briscoe cuts. The man has asked that we trust him on this one and he has earned enough respect with me to give him that.

    And of course Tom Jones has a right to his opinion, however in this case, I simply don’t agree!

  11. Buc Fan #237 Says:

    How many times will these media vigalantes need to be reminded that starting football players, that have starter talent, especially drafted in the first round, don’t just get “cut” on principle.

    Now, if the guy gets injured, then he is a goner… until then, he is an able body that the Bucs can use.

    Win Baby, Win!

  12. Have A Nice Day Says:

    Doesn’t the HC have to get the GM’s approval for roster moves? Is it possible a trade is being worked out for when Aqib? The trade deadline isn’t until the 30th. Are they even allowed to trade a suspended player?

  13. Vic Says:

    Talib’s got 8 more games as a Buccaneer. If we can use him and he can do whatever Schiano asks of him to come back, then keep him. Next year he’s never going to be worth the investment. Draft a corner and move on.

    Eric Wright looks legit, which is a good thing.

  14. Macabee Says:

    HAND,

    This suspension was known about way before it’s announcement. This was no off-the cuff response by Schiano – meaning his initial response has the full understanding and support of the Bucs organization. Even Talib had a prepared statement at the time of the announcement. Schiano says to trust him, I do. I don’t mean to imply that Talib should take any solace from what Schiano has said!

  15. Stranger Says:

    Why would you cut Talib right now? Wright, Biggers, and McDonald have been solid, but we still need Talib for the season. Especially when Wright looks to get banged up every game. We have a Falcons hype train to derail, so for this season, we need him on the field whenever possible.

    After this season, then we can look into bringing Jenkins back to Tampa and/or drafting one in the second round.

  16. ksneil2000 Says:

    I think we should keep talib. If anything if we decide to lock him up this saves us a lot of money. At the very least we could skimp out on the guaranteed money, or put in opt out clauses depending on his off the field issues without being scoffed at. I’d rather keep talib for a discount, hope for the best, than cut our #1 corner, use our now 1st round draft pick on another corner and hope he turns out when we could use that pick on another area of need

  17. raphael Says:

    Lol @ the media and the personel attacks on Coach Shiano…They have stooped to the thug talibs level…..It would be silly to release him right now from a business stance….Btw Its more the GM’s call anyway

  18. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Very odd timing for Talib to suddenly drop his right to appeal. Going up against a 2nd string QB and a team leading the NFL in turnovers, he takes a 4 week suspension?? In a contract year? Aqib does have an agent and a lawyer, you know?

    Wouldn’t it be better for him to just play a 12 game season, take the suspension and then kick it back home in Houston? Then the Little General cuts him, preserving his butch image.

    The timing of this smells of a back door deal. Somebody bought Talib’s silence. If you cut him, he goes to the NFL and tells where the uppers came from.

    What if there were more Adderall suspensions in the future? What if another player, coach or agent brought a bottle of uppers to gauntlet day and passed them around? Wouldn’t the Bucs stagger the suspensions so as not to decimate the team?

    We”ll see in 3 more weeks how many more suspensions will be announced and then again in 7 weeks. What if every Saturday for the rest of the season they announce another suspension or two? Wouldn’t it be something if this turned out to be bigger than Bountygate? How many Adderall are in a typical prescription? 20? 30? 40?

    Why doesn’t some reporter ask the simple question, “Coach, how many more Adderall suspensions are in the works?”

  19. Stranger Says:

    You should write a novel Miguel.

  20. ATLBuc Says:

    Totally agree, Joe. Cutting him just means another team will pick him (cough, Redskins, cough) and he’ll be starting somewhere else. The best way to hold him accountable is to keep him on the roster and make him earn his way back. Schiano can discipline him internally much more effectively.

    Side note, no one is going to trade for a suspended player, particularly when said player will be a free agent in a few months.

  21. OAR Says:

    110×16 Magnifico Gasser
    Why doesn’t some blogger ask the simple question, “Hey dork, how many more stupid repetative posts are in the works?”

  22. Stylnsteven Says:

    After reading up on Adderall and it uses I’m prepared to give Aqib a pass. I find it incredible that no one has mentioned why he might have been using this stuff. I think it’s fair to say Aqib has had a troubled career. I’m not going to knock the guy for trying to help himself. Something to think about. Does your own mental health come after the importance of your job?

  23. OAR Says:

    Stranger
    A novel? Not sure if a crappy science-fiction-fantasy-comedy would sell?

  24. ATLBuc Says:

    Stylnsteven

    If he has a problem he can get a prescription like the rest of us. That’s no excuse.

  25. Bucky23 Says:

    @ Miguel

    It makes sense for Talib to just take his suspension. He missed the KC game NO, MIN, and who OAK? We can survive without talib for the MIN and OAK game, possible could need him next week from NO, but that is the way it goes. I would rather him get his suspension over with and come back strong the final 8 games of the season when we play NO again and ATL twice and are hopefully making some sort of playoff push.

  26. Lev Says:

    I used to take ADHD pills before running. If I wouldn’t take them I would only go 3 miles and if I did take them I would go 9 miles. In my experience, it stimulates the mind in a way in-which you become mentally numb to extreme physical activity. Its more of a one time deal because after the 3rd or 4th time taking it you become adjusted and its effects aren’t as great. It doesn’t make you physically stronger or anything. I think it’s stupid that he got suspended 4 games for this.

  27. Joe Says:

    Lev:

    To be fair, Adderall is on the list of banned substances by the NFL and per the CBA with the players association, a first offense for testing positive for a banned substance is an automatic four-game suspension. Could be for Adderall, roids, pot or coke, doesn’t matter.

    Sudafed is even on the banned list, if you can imagine.

    The key element here is that if Talib got a prescription, he would have been in the clear (not to mention, not have broken a federal law).

  28. Joe Says:

    Jrock:

    Can’t trade a guy who is serving a suspension. Besides, as Gary Shelton pointed out, Talib is an inconsistent corner on the league’s worst pass defense. Throw in the fact his next offense will be a year’s suspension, good luck getting a bag of dirty locker room towels for him.

  29. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    @Bucky

    Aqib is in a contract year, his agent and his lawyer do not care what is best for the Buccaneers. His wife, girlfriend and family don’t care what’s best for the Bucs. He’s losing over $400,000.

    Aqib Talib:

    “Around the beginning of training camp, I made a mistake by taking an Adderall pill without a prescription.”

    It took them almost ten weeks to formulate that sentence. Why would a pro athlete just take one Adderal pill? Why wouldn’t he call his agent to see if its on the banned list? Where does a person acquire one Adderall pill?

    It’s simple, he showed up on the 1st day of camp, dreading the 110X16 torture tests. Someone he trusted, hands him one pill to help through the sprints. That someone had a bottle full and handed them out to others who were dreading the sprints.

    He might have asked, “What is it”, that person might of said, “Nothing bad, they give them to my kid at school.”

    Talib’s agent and lawyer are furious. How could the Bucs let this happen? The Bucs say, “Listen, work with us and we’ll make up for the losses during the contract negotiations.”

    In the mean time, Talib takes the first suspension and comes back in time for another player or two to be suspended. Why did they load up on DB’s this year.

    The fans on this site are so gullible, with no deductive reasoning or possessing little to no reading comprehensive skills. There are at least 10 comments above gushing over how trustworthy Schiano is. Why?

  30. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Lev Says:
    October 16th, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    “I used to take ADHD pills before running. If I wouldn’t take them I would only go 3 miles and if I did take them I would go 9 miles. In my experience, it stimulates the mind in a way in-which you become mentally numb to extreme physical activity.”

    Your Honor, I rest my case.

  31. 1976Buc Says:

    As a player of the game (many years ago) and more importantly a fan it disgusts me to think that some fans believe it is ok to do whatever it takes to win. Even taking banned substances. I hope Larry does not take this approach with his children. If it’s no big deal go to the Dr and get a script like every other patient legally taking a drug. I would be immediately suspended from my work and put on probation for at least 6 months with frequent random drug testing. Why should we expect any less from athletes paid millions of dollars to do something the rest of the world considers a game?

  32. Sneedy16 Says:

    @Miguel

    You always seem to amaze me with your wind sprints conspiracy theory. I don’t even get mad anymore. I just read, laugh, and move on. I really appreciate it.

  33. McBuc Says:

    I agree with Sneedy…What a hoot!

  34. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Another nail in the coffin, why would his agent and attorney agree to drop his appeal after only being paid 1/4 of his salary and risk losing the other half ($800,000)?

    Answer, they never would in a million years without a behind the door deal guarantying his roster spot, salary and possible re-compensation in return for their playing ball and keeping their mouth’s shut.

    This whole story smells to high heaven.

  35. Keith Says:

    There’s nothing smelly, and he won’t lose the “other half.” Don’t make up stuff.

  36. Pruritis Ani Says:

    Sorry, if we make an excuse for him and ANOTHER clean slate is given to him, where does it stop? What happens when some other idiot on the team gets into trouble.. do we give them a clean slate too? This Adderall business is nothing compared to when he assaulted a FHP officer, or when he punched fellow teammate, or when he assaulted taxi driver, or when he took a shot at his sister’s boyfriend. There are probably a myriad of other things he’s done that we don’t even know about.

    For those that are worried he’ll end up on another team.. So what? Do you really think he will last without being suspended for something else?

  37. Miguel El Magnifico Says:

    Keith Says:
    “There’s nothing smelly, and he won’t lose the “other half.” Don’t make up stuff.”

    7/25/2008: Signed a five-year, $14 million contract. The deal includes $8.2 million guaranteed. 2012: $1,852,500, 2013: Free Agent

    If Talib was cut on Saturday, he would have lost 3/4 of his 2012 salary or $1,389,375. There is no possible way his agent and lawyer would possibly allow him to take that chance.

    They would advise him to appeal the suspension until after the 12th game limiting his exposure to $463,125.

    They cut a deal, silence for a clean slate.

    **Miguel. You’re surely wrong here. Any veteran with a contract like Talib who makes the roster typically has his contract guaranteed automatically when the season starts. –Joe

  38. The Dutcher Journal (Pete Dutcher) Says:

    First thing: JOE, I know you won’t ban someone upon request, but I would REALLY appreciate if you would put the phrase “dreading the 110X16 torture tests” through the filter so we see “the ****** ***** **** ****” instead.

    Take a poll and see how many vote to block that phrase, lol.

    Second, the way I see it, Talib HAD a clean slate…and blew it the moment he stepped into camp. On that day he chose to break the rules and break the law…again.

    Thirdly, how many time has Talib got off with minor consequences? When does it become more about what’s best for him rather than what’s best in the eyes of the fans or team? He NEEDS to pay a steeper penalty. Period.

  39. Andrew Says:

    Joe i would strongly suggest removing Miquel as commenter if not for anything than as good business decision. just seeing his name makes this site a little more off putting. not going to tell you how to run your site, just thought you would like some honest feedback from a person who is a fan of your website.

  40. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    I’m with you 100% on this one Joe. Skill wise, he’s our best CB (although he often plays like our 3rd best CB). We are a team that struggles mightily against the pass, so it wouldn’t be incredibly bright to make our secondary worse by cutting Talib. The Aderall thing really doesn’t bother me that much, especially as compared to punching cab drivers and shooting at people. In that regard, this is like him doing charity work. I’m all about us winning as many games as possible. Unless he’s a bad teammate or a problem to the coaches, I see no reason for him to leave. Although it’s not fair, when you have talent, you get a different set of rules. It’s not just us, it’s everyone, and not only in football. When I played sports, I was never that guy, but I sure as hell understood that the better players had a longer leash. I was okay with it because I have common sense, and I suspect the other players on the Bucs feel the same way.

  41. McBuc Says:

    Miguel, did you ever think that failing a drug test without a n RX tends to be a clean cut case, there is no reason to appeal someting you have no chance at winning.

 
 

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