Inside Talib’s Case File

June 1st, 2011

Picture this.

Aqib Talib’s enraged mother arrives at her daughter’s house, where her son-in-law, Shannon Billings, is outside and starts to move away from her as she shows a gun. She fires two shots at him while he runs away from the scene, presumably for his life, and the fleeing Billings then looks over his shoulder and claims to see Aqib Talib holding a gun and is sure Talib fires it several times at him.

This is the core of the case the good state of Texas is offering against Talib in his felony assault with a deadly weapon case.

A man running for his life at dusk, who happens to have a long criminal history, is fleeing a woman shooting at him and allegedly he was able to turn around in the frenetic scene and see Talib with a gun and know he shot at him. 

Joe had to laugh reading that in the arrest affidavit for Aqib Talib filed by the Garland police. Billings would have to be some sort of cool customer to pull that off. Maybe he can catch a football over the middle in heavy traffic.

The entire arrest affidavit filed by the Garland police that led to Talib’s indictment can be read here. Much of Billings’ account of the events, which the police stand behind, is below. (You can click the words to view it in larger type.)

The police also have another witness who was interviewed twice, a female neighbor, who claims she never saw Talib with a gun. Her story, from the affidavit, is below. (Click words to see in larger type.)

Now the police presentation of Talib’s statement and his mother’s statement reveals a mess of contradictions. Talib admits to lying about his girlfriend being on the scene. And his mom’s account is all over the place.

What is clear is there was an argument at the scene, shots were fired by Talib’s mother, and apparently the only witness fingering Talib with a gun crime isn’t going to win any credibility awards anytime soon.

There was no gunshot residue testing done on Talib, per a St. Pete Times report weeks ago. There were no injuries reported. And Talib’s attorney Frank Perez told JoeBucsFan.com weeks ago that “we’ve interviewed 17 or 19 witnesses and none of them say Aqib Talib had a gun. He wasn’t handling a gun.”

The event details are sketchy at best. And if there ever were a trial, Joe suspects the accounts would get even more fuzzy and muddled.  

Talib is scheduled to appear in Dallas County district court tomorrow, per the court docket, as Joe reported earlier. A court official told JoeBucsFan.com that the appearance is not for anything specific, meaning that Talib’s attorney’s will be talking to prosecutors and things will move along from there.

Maybe the two sides move close to making a deal that keeps Talib out of prison and reduces his charge. Maybe they don’t. Joe suspects Talib will never admit to firing a gun at the scene or trying to pistol whip anyone, either of which likely would be a major red flag to NFL lockout orchestrator Roger Goodell.

Regardless, Talib largely is viewed as a first-time offender in the eyes of Texas. His previous brushes with the law — not teammates — were very minor. And Talib is ripe for some sort of deal and/or intervention program, per discussions JoeBucsFan.com has had with Texas criminal attorneys not affiliated with the case.

Joe hopes fans will read the entire affidavit and make their own judgments, rather than rely on the few snippets the St. Pete Times provided last weekend that didn’t seem too fair and balanced.

66 Responses to “Inside Talib’s Case File”

  1. Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    This case is weak, look for a deal so both sides save face. I say Talib pleads to a lesser non felony charge, and he stays in Tampa

  2. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    I just read the entire affidavit. There are definitely some inconsistencies, but I see little to no evidence where Aqib Talib could be convicted of anything other than lying to police officers. It seems to me that his mother was not in a right state of mind, and was probably so full of emotion that she can’t remember correctly what really happened. It seems pretty obvious to me that Aqib and his mother didn’t really rehearse their stories, because there are so many inconsistencies. I don’t believe Billings side of the story for one second. If I was Talib, I wouldn’t take any deal that admits wrongdoing (other than possibly lying to police officers).

    Assuming Talib is cleared of all charges (which after reading this I fully expect to be the case), how in the world can Goddell suspend Talib? If he simply came to his sister’s house (unarmed), and got into an altercation with her abusive boyfriend (who was armed), and didn’t shoot a weapon, where are the grounds for suspension? Again, that is assuming that is what really happened, but it really appears to be a bunch of witnesses words against one man’s word. Unless there is other evidence Talib fired the gun or came to the house with the gun, what exactly did he do wrong? That being said, I doubt the warden will be able to see along those lines, and will probably suspend him 4-8 games, just because he can.

  3. dan Says:

    Thanks for showing us this Joe!

    I really support the… idk… the heart of what Aqib seemed to be (reluctantly) willing to do for his family, I would do the same for my family, and if i did i would not deny it if i had shot at the man, (which i do not think Aqib did from this evidence) if it had come to that. So in this i support Talib. (in that i support his right to defend his sister, if he would later be honest about having to do it). It is unfortunate his family members seem to have a penchant for trouble though, and he seems to (in his past) be of that mold too.

    heres hoping this (and the lockout) get resolved soon!

  4. bradenton bucs fan Says:

    sounds like an old western novel with how it was worded… i aint scared of u you gonna have to shoot me…a struggle goes on for a lose gun,a good wresling and fight scene, a good ol foot race and then the hero momma talib who joins the party she shoots and misses then passes the gun like a cigar.. im sold on the direct to dvd movie whens the release date

  5. Victor Says:

    Sure seems like a kid out of law school could blow holes in this case against Talib let alone the big money team Talib probably has. Having watched my share of Law and Order episodes, it sounds like Talib might have to testify against his mother to get a deal. This has to be a very hard time for him. Thought the part about the guy putting the dog in the yard first so it wouldn’t be threatening was hilarious. If Billings lives there, why would he be concerned about his dog threatening anyone? Wouldn’t Fido want to come in for a cookie?

  6. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Victor,

    I thought the exact same thing as you about the dog. As if a pistol wielding Aqib Talib would be scared of the family dog??? Makes no sense, especially since I would assume the dog knows Aqib. Sure seems as if Billings is trying to paint himself as the non-threatening victim in the case – you know, right after he beat his girlfriend!

  7. BigMacAttack Says:

    After reading these statements, how did this thing get this far in the first place? Maybe the cops are a couple of Billings’ crack customers. Did the cops just completely forget about the beating of the girlfriend that set this thing in motion. Aqib & Okolo still should have called police and let them handle it, but Billings’ statement sounds like a complete fabrication. I’d love to see this one in front of Judge Judy. As she says “When something doesn’t make sense it’s a lie”. The witness tells the story. She heard the first 2 shots, fire by Okolo. She heard 1 or 2 more which Billings said himself, he discharged Aqib’s gun once. It could have been twice. Billings is an idiot, and if Aqib wanted to shoot him, why didn’t he chase him down, and keep on firing at him? Billings story makes no sense. I still think Aqib is a problem child and should have handled this differently, but if I was on the Jury, it would be Not Guilty all the way 100%.

  8. BigMacAttack Says:

    He needs Vincent Laguardia Gambini on the case. “The two yutes…

  9. MOBucs Says:

    Seems to be an extremely flimsy case for the state. No matter the outcome, Talib will almost certainly be suspended. I’ve read about how his teammates like and support him, but the guy has problems. I think it’s only a matter of time before Talib is in trouble again.

  10. Steve From Oregon Says:

    Interesting….strictly based on the information listed, its a who do you believe more. I don’t know Billings history; however, his story seem plausible but how would they be able to prove it.

    I do know Talib’s history and to be honest, it would not suprise me one bit if he not only pistol whipped the man, but fired some shots at him as well, it just seems like a natural progression to his behavior….sad but also plausible.

    I’m not taking sides….because honestly, I could not even guess who is telling the truth….I will say, I’m really done with Talib though on our team. He cannot be relied upon…simple as that…if does get out of this unscathed, I do not believe this will be the last time he gets himself in trouble.

  11. Brad Says:

    It’s shocking the state thinks they have any case at all. What a joke. And to think the media had this guy convicted and on his way out. They should be ashamed!!

  12. Theodore Says:

    For those exonerated Aqib, there’s one thing that’s troubling – He brought a gun with him. Just because he didn’t fire doesn’t mean he didn’t commit the other charge of aggravated assault If the boyfriend recovered Aqib’s gun, that means not only did Aqib bring a gun but it was “out” in a way for him to lose control of it. Even if he didn’t pistol whip the guy, just having the gun out pointed at someone is assault (right?).

    Assuming the police recovered a gun they deem to be Aqib’s, if Aqib didn’t commit assault, he needs to explain how he lost the gun.

  13. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Theodore – If you read through the file, you’ll see Talib claims he left the gun at the “victim’s” house weeks earlier and, off the top of Joe’s head, his sister claimed she knew where it was hidden in the home.

  14. Theodore Says:

    Thanks Joe. Still doesn’t help Aqib. If the gun was hidden, how did the defendant get the gun to show the police?

    In fact, I think this makes it worse for Aqib, it shows he prepared to one day use the gun.

    There was a 2nd gun, admitted by Aqib to be his, found in a trrashcan. Either the boyfriend has possession of that gun the whole time of the incident (or knows exactly where it is to frame Aqib) or the gun was transferred into the boyfriend’s possession during the incident. The latter points to an assault charge.

    In order to clear Aqib from handling that gun, you have to believe that he allowed it to be found by his sister’s abusive boyfriend. And besides, at the end of the brief, the mom admits the Aqib took her gun and went off running. That’s now two guns Aqib handled, neither in self-defense.

    Sorry, but this case looks stronger for the state then what I’m reading here, and I pretty sure one doesn’t have to fire a gun to be convicted of assault with one.

  15. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Theodore,

    I’m not sure if you read the entire affidavit, but if not, you definitely should. I think you have misunderstood some of the facts. First of all, there are 2 guns involved, both purchased by Talib. One was at his sister’s house, the other was with his mother. Talib”s story (and everyone else not named Billings) says that Billings got the gun from his (Billings) house, and Talib came over to the house unarmed. That is the same gun that was eventually found in the trash can. Talib’s side of the story is that he never had possession of that gun. He has a permit for the gun(s), so there is no law broken there if he didn’t fire it at anyone. It’s not against the law for him to handle the gun, even if it’s not in self defense (of course he can’t draw it on someone or pistol whip them with it). Also, as far as I know, there is no law about not properly hiding a gun, so I’m not sure how you conclude that because it was found, he was preparing to someday use the gun. That makes no sense to me. The second gun was taken from his mother (according to Talib), but was never fired by Talib. There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest otherwise. His defense can always be that he was taking it away from his mother, to avoid anyone getting hurt.

    I just seen no way the state has any case against him whatsoever. The only thing I can think of is that they indicted him to hopefully have him testify against his mother (for dropping his charges). Quite simply, where is the evidence against Talib? There’s no eyewitnesses or physical proof. It’s just the word of one guy, who just so happens to be a criminal who has a history of abuse.

    The question I have for everyone is this: If Talib truly did come over to the house unarmed, had Billings pull a gun on him, and took away the gun from his enraged mother, do you really think he deserves to be cut and/or suspended? Obviously there is a very good chance it didn’t happen that way, but if there is no evidence to suggest otherwise, what else can you think? I know that I am hoping that he is completely innocent, but I am trying to be non-biased on this. I just see nothing on this affidavit that makes me worry about him being found guilty of anything. I’m just not a big believer in the idea that we need to get rid of him because of what he may have done, or what he may do in the future. If he is completely innocent in THIS case, why should this case get him cut from the team?

  16. Theodore Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc – Thank you for the reply. Yes, I’m aware there were two guns.

    Let me restate my opinion – Aqib’s gun was found by police in a trashcan after the boyfriend told them where it is. The notion that that gun got there without Aqib handling it is simply implausible. In order to believe that, you have to believe that Aqib allowed his gun to be found by his sister’s abusive boyfriend. Think about that for a moment. In what universe would Aqib allow the boyfriend access to Aqib’s own gun?

    You guys are falling for an ridiculous scenario. It reminds me of drug addicts who always have their friend pants on.

    The much more plausible explanation is the boyfriend’s: Aqib had his own gun first. From there, it’s not that much of a leap to find the crime of assault with that gun on Aqib’s part, especially considering he incident ended with Aqib’s own gun not in his possession.

    Also, to be clear, I’m not saying Aqib will be found guilty, courts of law are fickle things. I’m just saying it isn’t realistic to believe Aqib’s version of his gun’s whereabouts. And btw, the police didn’t believe Aqib either.

  17. Amar Says:

    Tupac Talib

  18. Meh Says:

    “Talib admits to lying about his girlfriend being on the scene.”

    That’s a suspension (rightfully so) even if everything else about this case is BS (which seems likely).

  19. Vic Says:

    @Theodore – Plausible in whose world? This family lives in a world of guns, which is obvious from this file. Talib leaving a gun at his sister & boyfriend’s house that she had access to for protection is probably no big deal at all and very common in their world.

    I don’t believe Talib, but I also don’t believe anyone of the characters. How the state could convince a jury Talib used a gun here seems impossible. One of the papers reported the Billings guy was a sex offender and had a long rap sheet.

  20. Theodore Says:

    @Vic – It’s entirely implausible for a legal gun owner to leave his gun at his sister’s house for her protection in such a way the the boyfriend gains possession of it without first someone else handling it first.

    That’s my whole point. Handling a gun in a confrontation is not illegal, but a the same time handling a gun in a confrontation happens right before one commits assault with that gun. And there’s nothing to suggest the boyfriend handled that gun all by himself without someone else using it first.

    All of you exonerating Aqib have to explain how that gun got into the trash can without anyone besides the boyfriend handling it. The most plausible answer is it didn’t happen that way. The most plausible answer is the gun owner introduced the gun to the scene. Aqib is the gun owner with almost no reason to be without it and no reason to leave it where the person you’re afraid of gets it.

  21. Macabee Says:

    After having read excerpts from the indictment, the comments here are exactly what Talib’s lawyers are looking for. What has been demonstrated here by the differing opinions of the evidence amounts to REASONABLE DOUBT, which accrues to Talib’s benefit. His lawyers would be happy to have any or all you on a jury panel – at best not guilty by virtue of reasonable doubt (the judges instruction to the panel) – at least hung jury (if 1 member disagrees).

  22. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    I read the entire police reports and Joe you couldn’t be more wrong. No case/trial is a slam dunk and there are defenses (but they rest solely on the credibility or lack thereof of Talib and Okolo) but the State has strong circumstantial case:

    #1: the eyewitness doesn’t say that Aqib didn’t fire the gun, she says Okolo fired the gun and then they disappeared from view and two more shots were fired (completely supports Billings);
    #2: Okolo Talib: After he took the gun from Okolo “I heard a shot” and Okolo admitted that it could have been Aqib that shot.” This is devastating.
    #3: Also, the physical evidence (i.e. location of evidence such as weapons and bullett casings) completely supports Billings and proves that the Talib’s were lying;
    #4 the lying to the police after the crime is devastating toward jury believability of the Talibs. There actions are consistent with a cover-up which presumes guilt by the perps.

    This will be very clearly demonstrated by the State as a made up/concocted story (that Aqib didn’t fire the .380) by the Talib’s which is completely contradicted by their own statements and the physical evidence. Also, arguably consistent with the eyewitness who says she saw Okolo fire two shots, they disappeared and she heard two more which when combined with Billings statement – fits perfectly that the last two shots came from Aqib.

    When the jury is faced with two versions of an event, one consistent with physical evidence and the other completely inconsistent with the physical evidence – the former usually prevails. The state knows this.

    I personally know that evidentiary holes are easily filled by and through the Defendant’s lies. If I were prosecuting this case I would not hesitate for one minute to take this case to trial. I would not, for one minute, accept a plea arrangement that would lead to anything short of a felony conviction. I am interested in Eric’s take who I believe is a defense attorney and will likely have a differing perspective.

    Why? The main responsibility of the prosecutor is to protect the public at large, after reading this police report I have the belief that Aqib and Otolo are dangerous, volatile and dishonest people who have a high probability of harming an innocent person in the future. They easily could have hit an innocent bystander with tese acts.

    The weight of the evidence supports the prosecutor’s and Grand Jury’s decision to advance this case. Noone can predict with 100% certainty by have seen and been involved in trials and convictions with much less.

  23. Theodore Says:

    @Thomas – Excellent synopsis. I’d like to clarify one thing. The shots heard by the mom could have been the accidental discharge the boyfriend claimed happened.

    But again, and correct me if I’m wrong, Aqib not firing a gun doesn’t exonerate him of the assault charge. Chasing after someone with a gun can be considered assault. And of course, as I’ve been declaring, Aqib chasing after the boyfriend with the gun (as his mom admits happened) is the 2nd gun he confronted the boyfriend with.

    For someone not committing assault, Aqib sure likes to handle guns in confrontations.

  24. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Joe: thanks for posting the police reports. Good work.

  25. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    I posted some prev that wasn’t published. Am I being edited?

  26. admin Says:

    Joe here,

    @Thomas 2.2 — If something’s not here, then it was a computer glitch on either end. Looks like your long post is here.

  27. Macabee Says:

    Theodore/Thomas, Excellent synopsis, terrible analysis. Strong circumstantial case means lack of witnesses and weak evidentiary case. (1) the eyewitness is no longer an eyewitness when they disappear from view. From that point, it is opinion and that is only admissable from expert witnesses. (2) Okolo is confused as evidenced by her testimony and must be introduced as a hostile witness if called. She will not be required to answer questions that could incriminate her – a constitutional right. She will not be called. (3) RE physical evidence or the lack thereof – Okolo’s weapon was the only one fired and Okolo was the only one seen firing a gun. The witness admits that they disappeared from view. Where was Okolo standing when the last shot was fired? If she were to testify, It wil be “I can’t recall”. (4) Is it lying or confusion? Conflicting statements abound. Who’s lying, Who’s confused? (5) A fact you conveniently did’nt mention – Jury Nullification. I would love to have your star witness, the boyfriend, before me when his background is completely explored as it goes to his credibility. Thomas, I would love to see you rehabilitate this guy when I finish with him. No jury will want to believe a word he says.This is a perfect reasonable doubt case. Thomas, you should be the first one to recognize this.

  28. Joe Says:

    Thomas:

    Joe just went through the spam folder just in case you had a comment that ended up there. Found one, but it was in response to Tom on a post a few days ago (Detroit post).

  29. Buckeyebob Says:

    This court case is the least of his worries. The Commis is going to come down on him with another suspension. The Commis is in all likelyhood not a big fan of Talib’s so he will sit. Once again he hurts this team with his willingness to continue to put himself in bad sitiuations.

  30. scholty Says:

    Theodore:

    I think you are missing one important point. Talib’s gun was at his sisters house which is ALSO the home of Billings. They live TOGETHER.

    So it is not implausible at all that Billings would find the gun in his OWN home if Talib left it with her and she hid it.

  31. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Macabee:

    Sounds, locations thereof, directions of travel, what was observable to her before and after disappearing from view etc – not opinion.

    You go ahead and try to cast Okolo as confused under these facts and you would destroy your credibity as an advocate. Is she confused about whether or not she was even there? No, she was lying – and all you need is one lie.

    Okolo didn’t own a weapon, the only weapons fired were Aqib’s. The facts seem to confirm that Okolo had it originally, but when confronted with DNA questions, Aqib quickly backed-up his statement about when he last touched the gun being from 2 months to a few weeks. We will see, I suspect Talib cleaned the gun but the State may have some fresh prints or DNA.

    The only thing that I agree with you about is that Billing’s is vulnerable to cross-exam but if his version of the facts is supported by the physical evidence – that can overcome a shady history.

    Finally, my point is not that this is a slam-dunk guilty-verdict (cases rarely are), but this is a case (based on the reports) that a prosecutor would be just in feeling that he could not accept a plea deal reduced to a misdemenaor.

  32. Hector Says:

    Free Talib!!!! lol, found guilty by the court of public opinion.. sentenced to Death by losers who wouldn’t survive a NFL mini camp.

    bring it on, if you took that personal!!!

  33. Theodore Says:

    @Scholty – I’m aware of that. And sorry, that is just not plausible. A legal gun owner would make sure he hides it well enough.

    This whole “the gun was already there ” story is as fake as can be. Gun owners don’t leave their guns with others. Even if Aqib did leave his gun with his sister, they would hide it very very very well from the dangerous and abusive boyfriend who also lived there. Who goes around doing prison cell checks in their own house looking for contraband? Apparently, that’s what you believe the boyfriend did. Know bs when you see it.

    I’m really confused as to why everyone here believes a gun found at a crime scene where the gun owner doesn’t live was not brought there by the gun owner.

  34. Meh Says:

    This is ridiculous:

    “A legal gun owner would make sure he hides it well enough.”

    Being a legal owner of a gun in no way makes you good at hiding that gun.

  35. Theodore Says:

    “Being a legal owner of a gun in no way makes you good at hiding that gun.”

    Get a clue. If you owned a gun and wanted to leave it where an abusive and dangerous person who can harm your sister lives, how well are you going to hide the gun?

    What’s ridiculous is everyone here believing Aqib didn’t bring the gun with him.

    Police: So you left it there
    Aqib: Yes
    Police: Where the boyfriend lived
    Aqib: Yes
    Police: The boyfriend with a history of violence
    Aqib: Yes
    Police: And this gun was registered to you
    Aqib: Yes

    That sounds soooooo convincing.

  36. Booker Reese Says:

    Theodore, you are inserting “facts” here that just aren’t so.

    – Where does it say that the gun Talib alleges he left at his sister’s house was “hidden.” It doesn’t.

    - You are calling Billings a “dangerous and abusive boyfriend,” but it’s not a fact, it’s an opinion. All we know is that that very day, they had an altercation, and that years ago he was a felon. Do we know anything beyond that? Who knows what kind of relationship the sister and he had. otherwise. Btw, I believe they are common-law husband and wife.

    - You claim that “gun owners don’t leave guns with others.” Uh, re-read the part about his mother and the .38.

    - You seem to really think the “trash can” argument is a winner. Billings knew where it was because he in fact threw it there – read the affidavit.

    I’m with Vic – different world, different rules. Trying to apply common sense to the actions of many of those involved is a fool’s errand.

    Thomas, interesting takes but I think you are confusing the two guns in your most recent post. The timeline on the gun (2 months v. 3 weeks) is for the 9mm, not the .38 his mother arrived with.

  37. Theodore Says:

    @Booker – I think you need to read all my posts on this thread.

    I’m well aware the boyfriend threw Aqib’s gun into the trash can. I’ve posted plenty on this subject so I’ll just let you explain to me how the boyfriend came into possession of Aqib’s gun.

    Hopefully, your reply will feature a better answer then “Aqib left it there for him to find.”

  38. Booker Reese Says:

    Theodore, I did read them, and it’s still a muddle frankly.

    Again, you are making up facts to suit your opinion. We know what Billings says – he took it from Talib. Talib says it was in Billings possession from the start.

    You keep concocting this straw man about why Talib would hide a gun in the house that Billings could find. First of all, who said it was hidden? Second of all, who said it was there for Saran to protect herself from Billings? Talib simply says it was there.

    I don’t know why his gun would be in his sister’s house, but then again, I don’t know why his .38 would be in his mother’s house either. And yet that appears to be the case.

    Which story is more plausible isn’t really the point – it’s what can be proved.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think he’s necessarily “innocent” – I just think they’ll have trouble proving he’s guilty.

  39. Macabee Says:

    Thomas, my final post – you can have the last word or summation if you will. Let’s cover your most salient points by paragraph in your last post to me. (P1) Your witness didn’t say that Talib didn’t fire the gun. She said, in effect, that she didn’t know if Talib fired the gun. She only saw Okolo fire the gun and move out of her view. Can she say to an absolute certainty that Okolo didn’t fire the gun where the casing was found? (P2) I am not going to cast Okolo as confused or otherwise. I am not going to call her or Talib to testify. I want you to call her as a hostile witness and watch you try to navigate your way around 5th Amendment issues. (P3) It doesn’t matter who owns the gun – what matters is who fired the gun and more importantly, did anyone see Talib fire the gun in the direction of Billings. (P4) Glad you agree with me, but by your own admission – what evidence? The evidence is almost purely circumstantial and even if there was, under nullification, the jury is going to ignore it. (P5) I agree this is not a slam-dunk case and thats exactly my point. The States/District Attorney, whatever they have in Texas, will have to weigh the cost of a long drawn-out trial against the probability of an acquittal in a purely circumstantial case. This is a plea if I ever saw one!

  40. Apple Roof Cleaning Says:

    Macabee, you and I think alike! You said “The States/District Attorney, whatever they have in Texas, will have to weigh the cost of a long drawn-out trial against the probability of an acquittal in a purely circumstantial case. This is a plea if I ever saw one!”
    The States Attorney in Texas does not wish to lose re election for losing a high profile case like this.
    Too much risk, and Talib plays for Tampa anyway. I also see a non felony plea deal coming, and soon.

  41. Theodore Says:

    @Booker – I’ll make my point even more simpler. Talib’s argument, that his gun was already there and hours after a domestic dispute he found the boyfriend wandering outside the house with his gun, is as ridiculous as it sounds.

    And then, without notice from Aqib that the boyfriend had a gun, his mother shows up with a 2nd gun to defend themselves from the boyfriend with the first gun. Are you buying this story line?

    Apparently so. Everyone here is. Everyone here believes the boyfriend came into possession of Aqib’s gun because Aqib left it at the house. Because that’s what gun owners do, they leave their guns around.

    You guys need a lesson in skepticism.

  42. Theodore Says:

    @Macabee – Your last post seems to hinge Aqib’s guilt on whether he fired the gun. I’m under the impression that simply handling a gun in a threatening way is enough to be guilty of assault. Maybe you or someone else can clarify this.

  43. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Contrary to popular opinion Tim and Mac:

    I previously prosecuted cases as did my wife – it was both of our experiences that the elected State or District Attorney was attacked much more aggressively and successfully in elections by accepting favorable plea deals in a high-profile case than taking a case to trial ending in acquittal.

    Why? Because if the perps re-offend while at large due to a plea deal that did not include prison – the State Attorney WILL lose the next election in most cases. This is how astute elected state prosecutors think. These are triable facts – is there a defense of reasonable doubt – sure; there almost always is – but there is enough evidence here for a conviction.

  44. Booker Reese Says:

    Theodore, again…You are inserting/omitting things to suit your opinion, and making up your own plot-line.

    - According to Talib, he’s not “wandering around outside” – he was coming around the corner of the house, into the front yard. Billings says the same thing (though with Talib possessing the gun).

    - Your second paragraph is a complete mystery to me – By all accounts (even the victim), Talib’s mother did arrive with a gun. Why did she bring a gun? According to her own statement – Gypsy (the girlfriend of Talib) called and told her that Billings had a gun.

    I’m actually very skeptical of all three points of view – Talib, Talib’s mom, and Billings. Talib’s mom is obviously the worst of the bunch.

    But again – it’s not what I believe, but what can be proved.

  45. OAR Says:

    Is this joelawfan.com?

  46. Theodore Says:

    @Booker – Wandering around outside is the same as coming around the corner. Sorry for not quoting the report exactly.

    Anyways, I’m going to go register a gun in my name, rob a bank, and leave the gun there. Later when questioned by the police why my gun was at that the scene of the crime and I’m going to respond I left it there previously.

    Case closed. I’m innocent. According to everyone here.

  47. Macabee Says:

    Oh God, I can’t help myself. After this post, OAR, I promise to go back to being a rabid Bucs Fan and part time bass fisherman. No Theodore, my case doesn’t hinge on whether Talib fired the gun. I am only doing what any good defense lawyer would do and thats introduce reasonable doubt. I don’t want to disparage anything you or Thomas have said. I simply want to cofuse everything you’ve said before a jury. Thomas will tell you that I only need one person to be confused or see it my way. Thomas has the burden of proof. I’m sorry if I’ve destroyed anybody’s belief that justice is about truth!

  48. Booker Reese Says:

    Again, I didn’t say he’s innocent.

  49. 69her Says:

    ok..so i wont run from a Nfl football player when he has a gun and im unarmed but ill run from an old lady and we are both armed. IM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE??????

  50. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Before I begin, I would like to point out that the media were not the only ones prejudging this case. Nearly everyone here did, with the exception of me and one other person. I was constantly berated for my claiming Talib was “innocent until proven guilty”. That is the law and a right in this country.

    I also said people should withhold their judgement until more was known.

    @Theodore
    I think some of your earlier comments were made before you even read the report…if you ever did read the report.

    Thomas 2.2 Says:

    June 2nd, 2011 at 9:18 am
    I read the entire police reports and Joe you couldn’t be more wrong. No case/trial is a slam dunk and there are defenses (but they rest solely on the credibility or lack thereof of Talib and Okolo) but the State has strong circumstantial case:

    #1: the eyewitness doesn’t say that Aqib didn’t fire the gun, she says Okolo fired the gun and then they disappeared from view and two more shots were fired (completely supports Billings);

    You are making a presumption of guilt. Witnesses cannot say Aqib Talib fired the gun because they did not see. So of course they don’t say he did. A witness is called upon to only state what they actually “witnessed” right?

    It is not the witnesses job to prove a case or make a leap to judgement. I would think as a “lawyer” you would know this.

    #2: Okolo Talib: After he took the gun from Okolo “I heard a shot” and Okolo admitted that it could have been Aqib that shot.” This is devastating.

    Not so. Billings admitted to the gun he held going off. He makes the claim that he”tripped on a vines and the gun accidently fired.”

    It is extremely likely that this was the shot Okolo heard.

    #3: Also, the physical evidence (i.e. location of evidence such as weapons and bullett casings) completely supports Billings and proves that the Talib’s were lying;

    Actually, that’s not entirely the case. Upon reading the report, it is clear that the officers did catch Okolo in plenty of lies, but they really only caught Talib in one…about his girlfriend.

    The officers base their assumptions that Aqib lied on other occassions according to the statements of his mother…who originally denied even being present and proved her words were not to be trusted.

    In addition, it has been noted elsewhere that Okolo is bi-polar (spelling?). Clearly, during her interview, she was all over the place and acted strangely, which points to the possibility that she is mentally unstable.

    #4 the lying to the police after the crime is devastating toward jury believability of the Talibs. There actions are consistent with a cover-up which presumes guilt by the perps.

    In truth, we have two people confirming that Talib did not have the first gun…that both he and Okolo both witnessed Billings with a gun in his hand. Clearly, Talib lied about Gypsy (his girlfriend) being present, but he most likely wished to protect her from the media circus that would follow.

    Okolo admitted to acting inappropriately. She stated that she did fire the gun. Three times. She also admitted that she fired it 2 more times as Aqib was trying to get the gun from her.

    This will be very clearly demonstrated by the State as a made up/concocted story (that Aqib didn’t fire the .380) by the Talib’s which is completely contradicted by their own statements and the physical evidence. Also, arguably consistent with the eyewitness who says she saw Okolo fire two shots, they disappeared and she heard two more which when combined with Billings statement – fits perfectly that the last two shots came from Aqib.

    You have lost your mind, Thomas. The witness (and I might add, another 18 witnesses as well) stated that she did not see Talib fire the shots. Considering they stepped from the witnesses view while Okolo still held the gun, you are making a leap to say that Aqib fired the gun.

    AND NOW A POINT OR TWO FROM MY OWN OBSERVATIONS

    Billings advised the gun slipped out of Aqib’s hand while he was trying to strike him with it and he (Billings) gained control of the gun. Billings advised the gun was jammed from hitting a wooden fence.

    How would Billings have known the gun was jammed if he did not indeed attempt to fire it? Everyone missed that point.

    And if he did attempt to fire it, this was before Okolo fired any shots…which supports a self-defense case. Once he realized the gun was jammed and he could not shoot it, he turned to run…trying to unjam it as he did so. Why? Clearly he planned to use said gun.

    Billings told officers he fled into the woods across the street and in the process of trying to clear the jam on the gun he had retrieved from Aqib he tripped over a vine and accidentally discharged the gun into the ground.

    No one can prove he actually tripped over a vine. He makes that claim, but no one witnessed it. He admitted to trying to unjam the gun, and then to succeeding in doing so.

    It was at that point that people heard a shot ring out from within the woods. He could be telling the truth, or he could have recklessly fired a shot from the woods. The vine story is convenient, because it deflects intent.

    The things that are clear in this:
    - Billings was voilent and abusive to Talib’s sister
    - As has been revealed elsewhere, Billings is a sex offender, having forced himself on a 13 year old girl, which proves he has the potential to be a threat
    - When and if he did trip on that vine, since he was out of sight, how were the Talib’s to know he wasn’t firing at them? It points to self defense…again.

    And finally, 19 total witnesses were interviewed and none of them, including a retired police officer, saw Aqib fire a gun.

    Thomas, your jury would rule not guilty if a retired police officer got on the stand and testified that he did not believe or see Talib fired the gun. We’re talking about a retired law official here. A credible witness.

    Regardless of all the lies, and I think both sides are telling them, two key facts remain:
    1) 19 witnesses and Aqib’s family have all said they did not see him fire a gun at all. In fact, none of them say he even held a gun…and this points to Talib telling the truth that Billings had the gun.

    2) No gun residue. Talib was not tested for it. The police dropped the ball on this because it would have made their case if they had tested for it and it was there. But, because of “the right to be presumed innocent” the jury must assume that there was no residue there.

  51. Pete Dutcher Says:

    Theodore Says:

    June 2nd, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    @Booker – Wandering around outside is the same as coming around the corner. Sorry for not quoting the report exactly.

    Anyways, I’m going to go register a gun in my name, rob a bank, and leave the gun there. Later when questioned by the police why my gun was at that the scene of the crime and I’m going to respond I left it there previously.

    Case closed. I’m innocent. According to everyone here.

    And the police would have multiple witnesses saying otherwise. They would also pull gunshot residue from your hands if it were fired. AND, the bank would have video of you.

  52. OAR Says:

    “rabid Bucs Fan and part time bass fisherman”
    Now that’s more like it!

  53. OAR Says:

    Man my head is spinning! I’m going to have to go call Judge Judy and get back to you guys on my opinion on this Talib case!

  54. m.wesley Says:

    well no more blues clues the Aquib Talib edition,sounds about like ive been saying since it happened

  55. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Pete:
    You keep arguing this 19 witnesses say Talib never had or fired the gun. This fact is not contained anywhere reliable to my knowledge. All of what I read indicates that there weren’t 19 witnesses to this event. Just 1 lie Pete – try telling that to a jury when you have a mother and son testifying inconsistently. You are choosing Aqib’s version wholly because you are a bucs fan and blogger – there will be none of you on this jury.

    Further, this retired law enforcement officer I have not, and I assume the same for you, read any statement from him.

    Pete, you are missing the point here – Mac and I arguing the likelihood of a misdemeanor plea under these facts, not what the ultimate jury verdict will be(formally discovery hasn’t even started yet so there will be more evidence acquired in the months to come). I am saying that I would never, under these facts, plea this case down to a misdemeanor barring something that we don’t yet know about coming to light (for example, maybe Billings changes his story and says Aqib didn’t fire the gun – which is very plausible in my experience because of Aqib’s wealth and close relationship with the victim). However, this runs the risk of witness tampering charges so Aqib would not be smart to offer this but some perps do.

    BTW MAC – it is the provable truth. 1 holdout juror usually causes a mistrial which doesn’t get Aqib off the hook, occassionally 1 adverse juror can take over the jury and change opinions.

  56. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    Pete, your two main points about the 19 witnesses and the lack of gun residue are spot on. Both Thomas 2.2 and Theodore are trying to force a case where there is very little support. They’re talking philosophy, skepticism, etc, and those approaches have no place in a court of law where it’s all about provable facts.

    It’s always funny to watch a group split into those who can remove their own feelings from a subject and see clearly versus those who cannot and end up having an agenda in their arguments. I have a close friend who always thinks that just because he can argue something to the n’th degree that somehow makes him more right. It just doesn’t work that way in real life, however.

  57. Joe Says:

    FLBoyInDallas:

    Thomas 2.2 and Theodore are trying to force a case where there is very little support.

    Thomas will never try to force an agenda, no matter the evidence. That’s sssooo unbecoming of him.

  58. Brad Says:

    You go Pete!!! You blew Thedore and Thomas out of the water. There is one thing I know. If Thomas was my attorney, if he is one, I’d fire him immediately.

  59. Thomas 2.2 Says:

    Pete:

    Talib hid (or didnt make himself available to) the authorities with the gun for 4 days after the incident and investigation. The police will testify to everything that they did to get the weapon during those 4 days and what obstacles Talib and/or counsel provided. What he did during these 4 days based on cell phone records, credit card records etc should provide relevant and admissible information.

  60. Theodore Says:

    @Brad – Not sure how Pete blew me out of the water. Aqib’s gun ended up in the possession of the boyfriend and no one here finds that odd at all.

    I’m not saying it’s proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but the most plausible reason for how this happened is the boyfriends version of the story, not Aqib’s “I leave my guns around various houses” argument.

  61. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Theodore,

    You are entitled to your opinion, and you may very well be right. However, I find it no more unreasonable that Billings found the gun in his (and Talib’s sister’s house) versus gaining possession of it in a fight with Talib. Obviously, one of those 2 things is how he got the gun. I just don’t see how Billings could get the gun from Talib without getting shot (or getting shot at). Talib seems way too crazy to let that happen. I don’t find it unreasonable that Talib could have given the gun to his sister for protection (either from Billings, but more likely for protection in general). I wouldn’t give a gun registered in my name to anyone, but then again guns scare me and I wouldn’t get one anyway. Obviously, Talib and the family don’t share my fear.

    It all comes down to which side you believe. In reality, I can just about guarantee both sides are lying about many of the details. I tend to believe Billings had the gun before Talib got there, because I don’t believe he could get the gun away from Talib. Also, I find it impossible to believe that while running for his life into the woods, he managed to clearly hear Talib tell his mother he would shoot him, and Billings managed to look back and see Talib fire the gun. I would have run a Deion Sanders 40 to get the hell out of Dodge. I wouldn’t have looked back until I hit Arizona. I also find it a major inconsistency that Billings initially said “you will have to shoot me, because I am not going”, then he gets the gun away from Talib and runs away from Talib’s mother. And of course the gun was jammed, which he could obviously tell without trying to fire it, right? Then while running for his life in the woods, he cleared the jam, tripped, and fired it into the ground??? Really? You really find that believable? By the way, he is a convicted felon who just beat Talib’s sister. Call me a cynic, but I don’t believe Billings is the “victim”, as he is making himself out to be.

  62. Theodore Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc – Thanks for the reply.

    The boyfriend did not have the gun first IMO. If he did, why is Aqib hanging around once he got there? Like you, I would high tailed it out of there. The actions of both Aqib and his mom don’t come close to a confrontation you’d expect if you came across a known convict with a gun. Instead, they acted like cowboys. Cowboys have guns.

    Why would Aqib start a verbal argument with someone who has a gun and you know is violent? The answer is he wouldn’t.

    Why would the boyfriend be outside roaming around with a gun by himself before Aqib got there? The answer is he wouldn’t.

    I simply don’t believe the double scenario of Aqib leaving his gun there and 3 weeks later finds the boyfriend walking around with it upon his arrival. Not sure why others do believe this.

  63. Fernando Says:

    Joe great job not taking sides on this!!! Unlike the St. Pete Times you gave him the benefit of the doubting this situation.
    Oh by the way no gun residue test was done!
    Taliban didn’t have to make himself available cause he made arrangements to turn himself in. I can’t believe they are prosecuting with this evidence, this guy should walk easily remember innocent until proven guilty.

  64. Fernando Says:

    Talib I meant

  65. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Theodore,

    Agreed, I would have definitely have gotten out of there. But the same can be applied to Billings. He not only didn’t run away (assuming Talib had the gun first), he started a physical confrontation and got the gun away from him. I just don’t buy that. I was of the thinking that Billings took the gun after he beat Talib’s sister, most likely to protect himself. Reading Talib’s side of the story, he didn’t start a confrontation with Billings, but it was started when the mom got there. Even if he did, I can see Talib trying to “be a man” and not act scared of a gun (I would have screamed and ran away like a little school girl). That’s the “street” in him.

    To be honest, both scenarios sound really odd to me, so I totally get where you are coming from. Like I said earlier, it really comes down to who you believe more, Billings or Talib. I’m sure I am slightly biased toward the guy that has the potential to be an elite CB (I did say potential Capt. Tim, lol), as opposed to a convicted felon who is probably not as good as Talib in that category. Regardless, I just can’t see any way in the world Talib is found guilty based on this evidence.

  66. raphael Says:

    talib is not that good anyways…who cares…trade the thug !

 
 

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