Chucky Was Not A Second-Half Coach
February 17th, 2011
One of the reasons the Bucs were exciting last year was how the team played so well in the second half, specifically quarterback Josh Freeman’s play in the fourth quarter.
In short, one reason for the Bucs 10-win season was that the Bucs were clutch.
It’s something that Chucky’s last three teams were not.
Putting words to Twitter, eye-RAH! Kaufman of the Tampa Tribune, Twittering on the TBO Bucs Twitter feed, Kaufman documents the Bucs second half struggles under Chucky.
The 2010 Bucs showed a lot of resiliency. After going 8-31 in the previous 4 seasons when trailing at the half. they went 4-4 last yr.
Joe can understand this was likely a significant reason Chucky was jettisoned by Team Glazer. It’s hard to stomach paying a guy $5 million a year if he can’t coach up his own team in the second half.
February 17th, 2011 at 12:47 pm
i wonder what thomas will say about this……
February 17th, 2011 at 12:55 pm
No one could understand him after a full first half of screaming and yelling…
February 17th, 2011 at 12:56 pm
Wow your on a Chuckie bashing roll Joe.
1. Puked over reports of his visit to Plummer
2. “i have as many playoff victories since the Super Bowl”
3. The present post.
Good work carrying the Glazer’s water.
More evidence of the “love” Chucky has from the local print media?
As for records, how about the 12-4 home record Chucky had his last two years vs. 5-11 by Mr. Morris?
Nah, thats not important. Doesnt fit the template and the agenda.
February 17th, 2011 at 1:11 pm
Eric, how bout Chucky’s December record?
February 17th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
“good work carrying the glazers water” now thats funny. But, i doubt Joe has an agenda other than printing text that get tons of clicks. The Gruden apologist crowd has become very sensitive lately, is it fear of being wrong on your predictions or preconceived opinions of the new regime. No way you would want to see this team not succeed just to be right, right.?.?.
February 17th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
LMAO… too funny Joe.
February 17th, 2011 at 1:29 pm
“It’s hard to stomach paying a guy $5 million a year if he can’t coach up his own team in the second half.”
So keep him on the coaches payroll and pay him the $5 mill anyway, while he gets to attend every MNF game via ESPN?
Gruden got fired because there was a blow up, and Gruden’s dumb ass forgot he wasn’t the boss in the same room as the owners.
February 17th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
“The 2010 Bucs showed a lot of resiliency. After going 8-31 in the previous 4 seasons when trailing at the half. they went 4-4 last yr.”
You might want to take out the 2009 and 2010 games, if your gonna rag on Gruden. If not? Then, Raheem shares in some of those 39 games! How about using just Gruden’s last 2 seasons? What was 2009’s record when trailing at the half?
February 17th, 2011 at 1:31 pm
Your agenda speaks for itself.
Otherwise repeated attacks on a coach who has not been here for two years would be unnecessary, as would cherry picking bad stats, or criticising lack of playoff victories, or puking over Jake Plummer visits.
Your Glazer apologist stature is showing.
I wont pull against the bucs to be right, and I admitted I was wrong last season right on this very forum.
Ive been going to bucs games for 35 years, every year at least one, including the last two.
How about you?
February 17th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
BTW not sure if anyone realizes, but the Bucs have only had back-to-back 10+ win seasons ONCE! That’s once in 35 years! OUCH!
February 17th, 2011 at 1:38 pm
FireGregOlsen,
Are you back to that or is HireGregOlsen another person?
February 17th, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Gruden’s first season was outstanding. Everything else, not so much.
February 17th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Decided to look up those 2009 trailing at half numbers. We trailed at half in 13 games and went 3-10 in those. So, add those to the 2010 4-4 games and you now have 7-14 in the two years under Raheem when trailing at half. Now, that is still better than Gruden at 1-17, when trailing at half, but not 8-31, like Ira tried to make it sound like!
February 17th, 2011 at 2:07 pm
eric:
Though you may think otherwise, Joe is not a Chucky hater. Hardly. But Joe is aware of Chucky’s faults and in his last few years with the Bucs there were many. Basically Chucky needs a guy like Jerry Jones who will tell him “No” when needed. He didn’t have that here; he did have that in Oakland.
If you have to ask Joe who he would rather have as a coach, Father Dungy or Chucky, Joe doesn’t have to blink an eye.
Chucky!
Joe will forever be indebted to Chucky for bringing the Vince Lombardi Trophy to Tampa Bay but that doesn’t mean Joe will turn a blind eye to the guy.
February 17th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
“If you have to ask Joe who he would rather have as a coach, Father Dungy or Chucky, Joe doesn’t have to blink an eye.”
Okay Joe, Chuck or Raheem?
February 17th, 2011 at 2:10 pm
guys, jon gruden brought us a super bowl and we will always love him for that super bowl.. but the man cant develop players draft players or get along with the young guns, like raminik, doesnt mean we should hate him, hes the best coach we’v ever had to date… thank goodness for brad johnson not throwing picks and the defense being one of the best ever…. why doesnt joe bash dungy for i dont know losing in the playoffs constantly and wasting all those prime years of brooks lynch dunn alstott sapp abraham…. and dungy wins ONE super bowl with the “best qb” ever and a crappy defense, get real…. jongruden>tonydungy… raheem will eventually top them both in 2 years..
February 17th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
In 2002, Chucky.
In 2011, Raheem.
February 17th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
@joe…..2002 was really dungys team not grudens!!!
February 17th, 2011 at 3:08 pm
I don’t believe Joe hates Gruden at all.
In fact, Joe writes about him solely to get the comments going.
Gruden = increased activity, he’s a lightening rod.
Pre-Dungy, Wyche
From 1995-2001, Dungy
In 2002-2008, Chucky
In 2009-Present, In limbo… not liking the HC at all. The day the Bucs get a real HC is the day I will breathe easier. Rah was given a gift that the Glazers never gave to anyone else. Not only is Rah the HC, but he also replaced Monte Kiffin. How on earth does Rah replace that list of experience and pedigree to also include the great Monte???
Can’t and won’t allow it.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:10 pm
buc40:
You sure about that?
February 17th, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Won’t allow it. ?
O.o
February 17th, 2011 at 3:24 pm
We should fire Raheem so Guest #27 can breathe easier.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
buc40
Please don’t start with that crap! Why couldn’t Dungy get it done then? The defense was at its best in 1999 to 2001, he missed out on several. Last three playoff games no TDs scored!
Gruden brought in 27 new players to that Dungy roster, most on offense.
Let me ask you this you think Marvin Lewis or Maraucci would have won that SuperBowl for us? HELL NO!
February 17th, 2011 at 3:30 pm
Oh no!!!
Not back to this his team won the Super Bowl talk again.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:36 pm
Who really cares what kind of coach Chucky was or wasn’t. Why do we still have to discuss this guy constantly two years after his firing? Love him or hate him Jon Gruden is gone and he is never coming back to Tampa. Its the past. Lets move on.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Amen, gitarlvr
February 17th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
I defended Chucky for years, I mean hey, the guy brought a SB to the town… regardless of where the players were drafted and brought in from.
BUT, I was not blinded by his tv personality (which is great). I listended to the players and past players and saw the team declining around him. I saw his downfalls: building through youth, drafting, and developing a QB. I still think he can be a very good HC somewhere IF there is a strong general manager and scouting department to confront him.
Whatever…. old news. Raheem is the coach and has done a fantastic job from where he started and what he started with 2 years ago until now.
Anyone (ERIC) who can not see the value he brings, the long term outlook of this young team they are building…. is simply ignorant in my mind.
Name ANY great coach in history and I will show you a coach who had a franchise QB. About the only exception I can ever think of is Parcells. The man is a genius at building a tea and making them relevant…. but… he has pitfalls too. He does alot of it with old vets and his team needs to be replenished year after year and he never sticks around to do that part.
Anway, we digress.
Bottom line:
Dungy built the franchise
Gruden brought a SB
Raheem is building over again
They all had their qualities, good and bad, but talk to me after 5 years to see where Raheem stands in the list
February 17th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
@JOE…im pretty sure about that . He inherited those players correct? I believe dungy deserves alot of credit for that team. No??
February 17th, 2011 at 3:43 pm
BARRY SWITZER ANYONE?????????
February 17th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
“Let me ask you this you think Marvin Lewis or Maraucci would have won that SuperBowl for us? HELL NO!”….
HAH!!!!!!
February 17th, 2011 at 3:46 pm
buc40
Seriously? There are still people who claim that????????? Get over it.
Gruden brought in something like 17 free agents the year they won the SB.
It takes nothing away from Dungy, he was great, but never got them over the hump. The glazers felt they needed a kickstart to do so and fired Dungy to bring in Parcells. He bailed last minute and the Glazers were forced to do something drastic: give up the draft the next couple of years for Gruden.
It worked then they paid for it the next several years.
Time to start over and so far so good.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
“Gruden brought in something like 17 free agents the year they won the SB.”
How many of those were the “nucleus” of the team.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:48 pm
Barry Switzer: Now there was a man who won with another man’s team. the cowboys were such a well oiled machine at that point that you or me could have been designated coach for the year and I believe Aikman and Smith and Irvin would have had them win regardless.
Gruden was not that. He brought something to the table and changed 1/3 of the roster.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
BUC40
The “nucleus” was on defense.
Chucky brought in the offense that got on a roll late in the season and rode the defense to the SB.
YES, the defense brought them the SB, but don’t think just anybody could have came in and coached the offensive side to a SB. (unlike Switzer)
Anyway, I am done defending Gruden. I give him his due, but then he ran the team down and lost the players. He hung on as a .500 coach for the better part of the decade by bringing in washed up players. My guess is it saved his job for awhile, but in the end, he refused to build with youth, especially a QB
February 17th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Joe,
Perhaps I overreacted, but you know me and Chucky.
However, to clean this “stat” up a little more fairly.
I exmanined the record from 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008 and I get 6 wins -24losses in games where the bucs trailed at halftime.
On a more positive stat, if I might be so bold, the bucs under Gruden’s last four years led at halftime 32 times, and won 29 of them.
So perhaps that stat is a bit “counter jettison” Mr. Joe? After all they did have to play the second have to secure those wins.
Lastly, id finally add that Mr. Rah was 3-10 in 09 in games the bucs trailed at halftime. (and were the come from behind Browns, Bengals, Redskins and Rams victories really all that fantastic?)
Me thinks the stat was erroneous, incomplete, and does not paint a complete picture.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
eric:
Ssshhh… you’ll get the Dungeons and Dragons baseball stat geek crowd worked up with that line of thinking.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:57 pm
Safe to say Keenan McCardell and Joe J were. Ken Dilger was damned important too. Michael Pittman proved critical. All four made decisive plays in the Super Bowl.
None of the four played for Father Dungy.
February 17th, 2011 at 3:58 pm
buc40:
No. Sam Wyche, perhaps.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:01 pm
ERIC
good points on leading or trailing at halftime.
If anything, it tells me that Freeman is the man.
WHICH also is a negative pointed at Gruden: he refused to ever develop a young franchise QB.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:04 pm
Oh, I see, Eye-ray included 09, when Rah was coaching to show this “come from behind” improvement.
So Mr. Joe, was Chucky responsible for those my friend? Or can he be blamed when he wasn’t even on the sidelines?
Gee, do those ten losses in 2009 when trailing at halftime mean a “jettison” is in order?
February 17th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
LOL Joe loves the word “jettison.” 🙂
February 17th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
gitrlvr and Hawaiian
Joe brought it up!
February 17th, 2011 at 4:17 pm
buc40
Yeah, M Lewis and Maraucci! You know? John McKay’s two choices for our new head coach after Dungy! So, HELL NO they wouldn’t have!
February 17th, 2011 at 4:18 pm
I am not enough of a geek to look it up, but I wonder how many times Monte lost a game when leading at halftime.
Bet he was way above 90% conversion rate if the 29-3 rate held in earlier years, and I suspect it was even better.
February 17th, 2011 at 4:42 pm
“gitrlvr and Hawaiian
Joe brought it up!”
Yes he did. Joe’s no dummy, he knows how to move the needle!
February 17th, 2011 at 5:10 pm
Bravo Joe. No , Eric- Joe is not following any agenda. He is stating the facts the you, Thomas, and Guest27 refuse to accept. Gruden was fired for good reason- he needed to be fired, and pretty much sucked! The three of you keep painting do ” eyes of love” portrait of him, that is both fictious and annoying- because you simpletons won’t let it go!! Get in touch with reality, let the crush go, get yer head outta the past, and talk about today’s Bucs. Not you fantasy version of the past- kapeche?
February 17th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Captain Tim,
You don’t think 29-3 over a four year period when leading at halftime is pretty darn good?
Or are you too big a hater to at least acknowledge the accomplishment?
February 17th, 2011 at 5:29 pm
Eric, look this up, in that 29-3 record, how many times was the lead extended or what was the points + / – in the second half. My point is the D had a lot to do with that record
February 17th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
2008- The Bucs are 9-3 en route to one of Eric’s treasured division championships. Then out of nowhere, they roll over and die losing the last four games of the season in spectacularly horrific fashion. They can’t(or players dont to) even beat Jamarcus Russell led Raiders to clinch a playoff spot. They are the laughing stock of the NFL. Two short year later a new coach has the Bucs riding high at 10-6 with the most talented young roster in the NFL. How anyone can get this twisted is beyond all comprehension.
February 17th, 2011 at 6:25 pm
Jo,
I am going to give you the beneift of the doubt (mainly because this is your web site).
Last season the Bucs averaged 10.6 points in the first half 170 total points
Last season the Bucs Averaged the same 10.6 Points in the SECOND HALF 171 points.
Captain,
Unless Joe is twisting the laws of Math, the only agenda which he is following is the one where you do not do proper research and just pump out blah blah blah…to fill a page.
February 17th, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Dave,
Raheem still has a losing record.
How many “could have been” great coaches who had a franchise QB, and totally screwed it up.
February 17th, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Lets end this here. Raheem Morris was given the head coaching job and was set up to fail. What Raheem was able to do in his second year was impressive. If you don’t like him it might be personal. Please tell me of a coach that was available at the time that Gruden was fired that would have done (or assumed that he could’ve done) than Raheem. Yes the move that he made in cutting certain players was not popular but was a necessary evil. Last thing, ****Gruden could not and did not want to develop young talent. **** That is the main reason he is no longer coaching the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
February 17th, 2011 at 8:03 pm
This post is about an alleged bad record by Gruden in games where the bucs trailed at halftime.
Research shows the record relied upon by Eye-rah isn’t correct becauase it includes a year where Gruden wasn’t even coaching the bucs. Of course no one has a problem with that, as long as something negative is said!
I realize you guys like to trash Gruden but at least have the facts straight.
And, its only fair to include the 29-3 record when leading at halftime. Sounds pretty damn good to me!
But in typical fashion everyobody wants to trash Gruden for the O8 defensive collapse but not give credit for the 29-3 record when leading at halftime over the same period, because the defense caused it.
Its all typical, facts be damned, Gruden sucked……………..make up some crap that aint even factual, blah blah blah.
February 17th, 2011 at 8:23 pm
I can’t wait for Gruden to get another coaching job somewhere else so all of his blind followers will go with him.
Gruden’s like the fish that got away. As more time passes, the greater he seems to be in some people’s eyes despite the fact he was nothing more than an average head coach.
Fact is, he didn’t do SQUAT after the Super Bowl and we have no talent from the draft because of him and his buddy, Bruce.
I still hate Raheem but I’m glad Gruden’s not here anymore.
February 17th, 2011 at 8:37 pm
BTW,
The Saints record the last four years when trailing at halftime?
5-18.
Guess Sean Payton also “can’t coach up his team in the second half”.
Time to be Jettisoned Sean!
Your a hack like Chucky!
February 17th, 2011 at 8:56 pm
I do have to say, Eric, I agree with you on this issue. I don’t consider Gruden a bad second half coach. In fact, I consider him a pretty damn good X’s and O’s type of coach. This is just geeky stat-loving bullsheet. You can twist stats different ways and it will prove any point you want to make, but that doesn’t make it true. It is fair to blame Gruden for not drafting well, developing talent, or just overall being an arse hole, but this is unfairly trashing him. So there you go, we agree on something.
February 17th, 2011 at 9:52 pm
@Hawaiianbuc,
very magnanimous sir. Thank you.
Ill swing by and pick you up and we will go solve the Israel/Palestine land dispute.
Should be a snap after this!
February 17th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Love the comments about, “Gruden didn’y do anything after he won the Super Bowl…”
LMAO
As if ANY other coach won the Super Bowl with the Bucs?
Gruden does have, the most:
1) Super Bowls with the Bucs
2) Wins with the Bucs
3) Division Titles with the Bucs (3)
4) Play off Wins with the Bucs
5) The LEAST amount of 1st round picks 🙂
How can you guys seriously think he is so bad?
Talk about re-writting history.
The Great Tony Dungy only has 1 Super Bowl with the Super Bowl and it was with the Colts… a Peyton Manning lead Colts that Dungy severly underachieved with. Dungy also didn’t win the Super Bowl with the Super Bowl team he built with the Bucs? Huh? I know, sounds stupid, but it’s true.
February 18th, 2011 at 12:10 am
Guest:
Joe’s is not moved to pray a rosary at the mere mention of Father Dungy. Had Sam Wyche not picked the trinity on defense (Brooks, Sapp, Lynch) what would have Father Dungy have done here (outside of getting his hat handed to him annually by Andy Reid)?
People talk about Chucky winning with Father Dungy’s players… Father Dungy won with Sam Wyche’s players!
February 18th, 2011 at 6:09 am
This whole “so and so won with someone elses players” is rediculous.
When Shula took over in Miami the team had Griese, Czonka, Kick, Little, Bonteconti and others. Nobody said “Shula won with Wilsons players”.
With a few notable exceptions, most Championship teams have key players on their roster who werent selected by the coach who was there when the Championship was obtained. (Nolll and Walsh are exceptions)
There have been some guys who just held a clipboard like Seifert and Switzer. But neither Dungy or Gruden fall into that category.
I am sure Chucky would acknowledge he was damn fortunate to have Sapp, Lynch, Brooks, etc, and Dungy was damn fortunate to have Manning in Indy and some great draft choices in place by Wyche/Mckay when taking over here. Both benefited mightily from having the ingenius Mr. Kiffin.
In my mind that doesn’t dilute the accomplishments of either guy.
Why do we have such an obesession around here about who won with whose players. Its silly. Be happy we won at all!
February 18th, 2011 at 8:44 am
and ive woke up agreeing with Eric,that is the truth,we won and hopefully we will do it again soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
February 18th, 2011 at 12:31 pm
Gruden was absolutely the right guy for the Bucs in 2002. He changed the attitude of the team. Guys like Sapp said as much. Gruden told the D they would score a lot of TDs. I don’t think Dungy could have motivated that defense to the domination it produced. And that offense was darn good for the final half of the season (as long as Brad was playing). Look at the drives the Bucs put together in the playoffs and Super Bowl. They were long, sustained, clock-grinding drives with a mix of runs and passes. Gruden developed brilliant game plans that exploited mismatches (Joe J. on Barry Gardner, Keenan M. on Charles Woodson). Alstott never played better as a true fullback than he did in the Super Bowl (I don’t know why since it is such a critical part of the WCO).
But unfortunately, Gruden couldn’t change. The window of opportunity closed and he was unwilling to go with a youth movement. He was stubborn. Think about how long it took him to consider a shotgun snap even though the OL was very weak. Gruden was a great offensive coach for a ball control, West Coast (dink and dunk) offense. But the Bucs didn’t have the talent for it at the end. The QBs were middling. Galloway and Bryant put up decent numbers, but they were shallow stats. Neither of them were multi-dimensional WRs. They could do nothing to help the running game, for example. The truth is that the Bucs offense looked a lot like Dungy Ball by the time the Bucs closed out the 2008 season.
I am not completely sold on Raheem yet. But it was time for a change, just as it was in 2002. So far, his players are buying what he is selling. And that is a huge part of being an effective NFL coach. He seems willing to stay out of personnel matters, which is the most effective way to have continued success (the teams that keep the coach away from the GM seem to do best on a consistent basis). Let’s see what he can do on defense. It looks like he will stay away from the offense, and that is a good thing. I am optimistic that if he puts in the time that his QB is going to put in, then he can become a very good coach.