Support Not Coming “From The Average Fan”

July 25th, 2010

"Support is not going to come from the average fan," Raheem The Dream told The Tampa Tribune.

Raheem The Dream is back talking to the media again, as the MSM revs up for the start of training camp on Saturday. (Joe, conversely, is revved up 24/7 in a never ending quest to serve JoeBucsFan.com readers.)

Good guy Anwar Richardson, part of the Bucs beat team at The Tampa Tribune, caught up with Raheem The Dream and seemingly asked him a pointed question about fan support for his young squad coming off a putrid season.

Raheem The Dream delivered one of his trademark nearly non-sensical answers.

With only one week of training camp open to the public this year, Morris is not concerned about Bucs fans jumping off the bandwagon. Instead, he plans to use last year’s struggles as motivation for his players and to regain fan support.

“The support is not going to come from the average fan. The support is going to come from the Buccaneer lover,” Morris said. “The 3-13 will help us thrive. The 3-13 is what’s going to make us. The 3-13 is what we’re going to look at, set examples for, and go out and really punish people for it.”

Joe loves Raheemspeak season almost as much as he loves football season.

So what’s the head coach trying to say, that the average Bucs fan won’t get that the Bucs are rebuilding with a bunch of talented, unproven guys and therefore won’t support the team?

Hey, Rah, take Joe’s advice, when you’re inevitably asked about fan support again, try sticking with a response that explains how you know fans will support this team once they see how violent, talented and dynamic it is on both sides of the ball. Or talk about how the support will come quickly because you’re going to win more games and fans will quickly see that this team is way more mature and intense than it was last year, from the head coach to the guys at the end of the bench.

And there’s always the other option, Rah, just stop talking.

86 Responses to “Support Not Coming “From The Average Fan””

  1. RahDomDaBest Says:

    Oh Joe… leave poor Raheem alone. He should be protected by the media through thick and thin. Oh Joe, you are making way too big of a deal of his comments, afterall what he MEANT to SAY was…. Joe you just don’t get it.

    Raheem Morris should not be a head coach of a billion dollar NFL franchise… plan and simple.

    Nice guy though.

  2. sgw94 Says:

    I think you missed the part where he said “The support is going to come from the Buccaneer lover”. Thats actually pretty straight forward and reading the comments sections here and elsewhere Id say he’s spot on. Average fans want his head. Diehards want to see him succeed. Theres rarely any middle ground.

  3. Not a Rocket Surgeon Says:

    Well. Said. Steve.

    The truth hurts.

  4. RahDomDaBest Says:

    Well I’m a diehard fan… why do you think I am reading this blog every single day in the off-season. And I am against the Glazers going out and making this guy the head coach. It was a STUPID MOVE. And not even Steve White can convince people otherwise.

    The REAL question is, why did the Glazers hire this guy? What were their true motives?

    It’s a joke that Raheem Morris is a coach of a billion dollar NFL Franchise.

  5. sgw94 Says:

    “A hit dog will holler”

  6. The D Says:

    I think the reason he was hired was because of history. We lost assistants who became head coaches elsewhere like: Lovie Smith, Rod Marinelli, Herm Edwards, and Mike Tomlin. Say what you will about how good they were as head coaches, but the point is they were all highly touted coaching prospects. The Bucs didnt want another one to leave. Before we “hired” him as our HC, he interviewed with Denver for their HC spot, so he did have interest from other teams.

  7. Capt.Tim Says:

    Steve, I agree totally. We SHOULD hit Rahdomdabest like a dog, til he hollers, lol. The Glazers hired some Republican party talking head ta handle PR BS, why isn’t he doing it? Either that, or get one of the Cheerleaders to do Raheem’s talking. I admit it ain’t his strong suit! Point is, I don’t care if he gets nervous talking in public. I care that he is a good coach or not! There have been other GOOD head coaches that weren’t articulate. I know some of the slow squad want a handsome, articulate coach for the team( for reasons I don’t wanna discuss here!!). Me, I don’t care if he looks and sounds like friggin Quasimodo – If he can lead this team to wins, he’s da man! Not being a great speaker doesn’t mean Raheem isn’t a smart guy. It just means he’s nervous in public speaking! Albert Einstien stated that he always came across as a simpleton on videos of his public speaking engagements. Wish management would help coach Morris out with this one a little . . .

  8. RahDomDaBest Says:

    @The D

    “Rod Marinelli, Herm Edwards”

    Why didn’t the Glazers hire one of them? They surely were available to be the head coach of the Buccaneers.

    Kind of blows holes in your pointless perspective.

    I’d take Herm Edwards “That’s why you PLAY the game” speeches any day over “Take your underwaer off, and put your face in it!” …. LMAO… any day.

    Herm actually played the game too… he was a defensive backs coach… he was a head coach for 2 teams… he IS more qualified than Raheem. And that is just Herm. There are a bunch of other more qualified individuals to be head coaches of the Buccaneers……. so why Raheem?

    Poor guy, Raheem is a nice guy too.

  9. RahDomDaBest Says:

    Steve White is more qualified to be the head coach… and he’s not even top dog on JBF.

  10. Capt.Tim Says:

    Rahdomdaklansman- nice try! But all of us who read your post on “good young coach, bad young team” saw your true “colors”

  11. RahDomDaBest Says:

    “good young team, bad young coach” is more like it.

    I am a fan of the players buddy… not pushing the agenda of apologizing for an unproven coach who has already made a mountain of mistakes… just because he is a black man.

    I am not afraid to call your kind out buddy. Face the music. Every other excuse you make for Raheem is just an apology for him.

    So did the Glazers hire Raheem Morris BECAUSE he is a black man?

  12. Louie the HATER! Says:

    @sgw94, I couldn’t disagree more. Everyone here is a true fan. The fact that they disagree with you or you disagree them doesn’t make them a lesser fan. I love how I have been labeled a “hater” for simply disagreeing with other’s viewpoints.

    If the Bucs start winning all will be forgotten and I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about what the Bucs are doing. My beef isn’t so much with Morris. It’s more about the whole organization and their current direction. I just don’t think they can win doing it like this with inexperienced people and players everywhere on a shoestring budget.

    OK, now you guys can start calling me names again!

  13. Capt.Tim Says:

    This quote from Rahdomdabest” of course his “brothas” say good things about him . . They want ta see another “brotha” succeed, no mystery there . .” . Wow, and this is 2010! Did you just get thawed out of yer ice block, thinking this is 1920? I want Raheem Morris to succeed because he is the head coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. No more, no less. And I don’t include race as a factor for supporting or not supporting anyone. Don’t understand anyone basing their opinions of a person on their color. Kind of a weird way To go about life, judging people on site! Perhaps someday the Bucs will have a coach who is one of the colors you like, but I prefer not to hear about your preferences, as I find that thinking rather offensive!

  14. Sebring Smitty Says:

    I like Raheem, and really hope he does great !! I remember a lot of Dungy haters when he first got here . Just saying.

  15. Capt.Tim Says:

    Ok, rahdom, I’m facing the music! Sounds like an oldie . .trying ta catch the lyrics . . Damn, it’s the” RahDom is a Racist” waltz, turn that crap off, rahdom, yer making me sick !

  16. Capt.Tim Says:

    Ok rag! Get yourself outta this one! Lol

  17. sgw94 Says:

    @Louie

    Again a hit dog will holler. Read what I wrote then look at what you wrote and see if the two remotely match up. Better yet try to find the word hater in any form in what I wrote.

    I cant control who gets offended but at least everyone can see for themselves what I actually said lol. I guess some folks are a lil sensitive ;)

  18. RahDomDaBest Says:

    Oh Timmy… you pulling the race card on me? I am talking facts here and you are calling me racist. It’s too bad you are too afraid to talk about the elephant in the room buddy. P*ssy.

  19. The D Says:

    @RahDom

    I wasnt saying that I agreed with the hiring nor did I say that Herm or Rod were good coaches, all I said is that the front office was tired of seeing their assistant coaches leave for other jobs. Try actually reading my statement douche.

  20. RahDomDaBest Says:

    They could have hired Herm or Rod as the HC. Tired of seeing them leave? They were available. That’s what makes that reasoning so stupid.

  21. Capt.Tim Says:

    The D- his correct title is” the racist Douche”! And no, RahDomdaKlansMan, I didn’t “pull the race card”. You pulled out the whole deck of ‘em, spread em out on table, then decided ta try and scoop em back up! Let’s take a vote! Everyone go read RahDoms comments on ” good young coach, bad young team”. They are near the bottom on the comment column. Then come back here and “cast lots” on if he’s a racist or not! Again, good luck squirming outta this one, RahDom!

  22. George C. Costanza Says:

    Let Rah be Rah. You’d prefer someone who utters Coachspeak? Which is to say, tiresome cliches?

    I agree that Coach comes up with some interesting utterances, but what’s wrong with that? If the players believe in him, it will show on the field, which will lead to an improved football team and more wins, which will lead to more support from the fans, whether they be diehards or average.

  23. JimBuc Says:

    Louie says he is a “true fan” and then states:

    “If the Bucs start winning all will be forgotten”

    That sounds like a true fan to me. :-)

  24. RahDomDaBest Says:

    You moron. I could have easily changed my screen name and asked the same question. But I didn’t because this is an outstanding question that you and your buddies are too afraid to answer.

    If there was a white coach who had the season and the decisions that were made last year and who was part of Gruden’s regime, and was 33 with no real experience, would those same posters be fully committed to that coach? Seriously? You know that answer is absolutely false.

    So that begs the question, why should fans get behind a coach just because he is black?

    Did the Glazer’s hire him because he is black?

    Don’t you think that there is a high probabilty that the reason most of the supporters of Raheem are because they were Dungy supporters, hated Gruden, and now are Raheem supporters only to rationalize that somehow Dungy and Raheem are similar? When in fact the only similarities are because they are black.

    These are all factual points whether you like it or not.

    And I don’t think fans have to like a coach…. just because he is black… if that’s why you like him, fine. Say it.

    But stop making Raheem Morris out to be some excellent coach with undeniable potential that it is just oozing from his ears. Stop the non-sense already. This isn’t even close. If it were close, if the guy were Obama, then you could have the benefit of the doubt. Raheem has done absolutely nothing to warrant a free pass as a head coach in the NFL.

    Stop giving him a free pass just because he is black.

    Because that is EXACTLY what you are doing. FACE THE MUSIC.

  25. Louie the HATER! Says:

    @sgw94: Sorry, didn’t mean to insinuate you’re one of the one’s who are calling others haters. I was referencing others who start the name-calling when you disagree with them or in any way criticize the Bucs.

    Morris says, “The support is going to come from the Buccaneer lover”, but that will only happen if he starts winning. My point is, if he has another 3-13 or similar season, no amount of love is going to come to his defense. In fact, some of the “lovers” posting comments here admit they will not support Morris if he isn’t able to turn it around.

  26. sensiblefan Says:

    @ Capt. Tim

    It’s all good bro. RahDom is known for throwing up some weak stuff…can’t say I’m surprised. Not a racist, just delusional.

  27. Louie the HATER! Says:

    @JimBuc, you just don’t get it. I am a fan of the Bucs and so is everyone else here or else they woudn’t be here no matter how much you and your buddies try to tear us down. The Buc are my favorite team and that won’t change no matter their record or who’s running or owning the team. It’s been that way since 1976. I am currently NOT a fan of the people running the show or many of their decisions they’ve made in recent years. Can you see the difference???

  28. CharlieB Says:

    Wow. You really think that Raheem kept his job because he was black? What is Dom’s excuse? What about all the white coaches in history that have started out with 3 wins or less and gone on to be a good coach? I don’t see why race has anything to do with it. Raheem and Dom are doing what the Glazers want, so they get to keep their job.

  29. Louie the HATER! Says:

    You know, JimBuc, I just realized I’m probably not a “true fan” in your eyes because I don’t drink the Kool-Aid. But, I’m OK with that because I like the fact that I’m not a mind-numbbed sheep. Freedom is being able to think for yourself!

  30. sgw94 Says:

    @louie

    So you think every person who posts here hopes the Bucs improve this year and that Coach Morris will keep his job which would be the logical byproduct of winning?

    I don’t

  31. JimBuc Says:

    This might be the craziest statement ever:

    “If there was a white coach who had the season and the decisions that were made last year and who was part of Gruden’s regime, and was 33 with no real experience, would those same posters be fully committed to that coach? Seriously? You know that answer is absolutely false.”

    Maybe not if a part of Gruden’s regime (i.e. following the same approach) but my GOODNESS how in the world does this possibly become a race thing????? Absolutely outrageous.

  32. The D Says:

    @ RahDom

    Let me spell it out for you once more. When they left the Bucs they WERE HIGHLY THOUGHT OF. They proved that they were terrible coaches, but when they left the Bucs most people around the league believed they would be good coaches. Same goes for Raheem. Many thought that he COULD be a good coach and he still needs to prove himself. The Bucs didnt want another guy with great POTENTIAL to leave again. If that was the right decision or not is up for debate, but thats what the Glazers did. Not too hard to follow is it?

  33. King Says:

    I think the Glazers have already proven they are not afraid to hire and fire a coach based on their skin color. They have also shown that they will give a coach several season to make or break himself. Yes we took a huge step backwards last season in the name of rebuilding. But to base on whether it is a failed experiment or not is still a bit early in my opinion.

  34. JimBuc Says:

    Louie — just reading what you wrote. If they win all will be forgiven? That does not sound like a fan to me that sounds like you are a fan but only if they win? If I misunderstand, my bad just reading what you typed.

    For the record, very few people on here that I would say are not fans. Those being the people who actively root for Morris’ failure. Even a fan who hated Morris would root for his success because that is what is best for the team. Someone who hates Morris should be of the mindset that they hope they are wrong about Morris, not that they hope he fails.

    Again, very few who fit that mold

  35. Louie the HATER! Says:

    @sgw94, I don’t think anybody here wants the Bucs to keep losing. So, yes, if the Bucs win, everybody is going to love Morris.

    I think the main problem with Morris is confidence. Having been named HC too soon and after last season’s debacle, people (me included) don’t think he can do it.

  36. B.D Says:

    I am not a fan of morris but hope that the Bucs do well and he proves me wrong,I just dont think he has enough experience to be a head coach,I think he needs(needed. a couple of years as D.C before giving him the head coachs job,I understand that they wouldnt want to lose him to another team,but iI think giving him the head coachs job too soon could hurt him.I really do not think that he would have been given the job in Denver because of the reasons I just brought up.I may be wrong but that is what I feel.doesnt matter what color he is,if he wins,that is what I care about

  37. RahDomDaBest Says:

    More people should think he can’t do it based on his past performance, then giving him a FREE PASS…. because of

    And JimBuc how is this a ridiculous comment. That is the POINT.

    “If there was a white coach who had the season and the decisions that were made last year and who was part of Gruden’s regime, and was 33 with no real experience, would those same posters be fully committed to that coach? Seriously? You know that answer is absolutely false.”

  38. BigMacAttack Says:

    Maybe it’s just me but I have changed my opinion of Coach over the last 18 months or so. At first, listening to him talk and smile, I thought OMG we’re in deep doodoo, and we were. Then they cut brooks and I was peeved to say the least. Then I saw the Bates Motel open up for business, and said this place needs to be condemned after its first week. Then we beat the Packers and I watched all those fans go home from our house upset and deflated. It was a ray of hope, and Freeman looked pretty good at times. Then the big move cam for me when Raheem pulled the plug on Bates, I started to believe in him a little. Then the Defense improved almost instantaneously, we were starting on the right track, but Olson not knowing what to do when, was still a problem. Then they started to run a little more, the plays got a little better and we beat the Saints. That was a huge milestone for me, because the Saints were good, there house is deafening, and the Bucs looked like a real NFL team to me. I said we need to give Coach a chance.

    Then came the draft and I think Dominick kicked butt. I love what he did. I think we loaded up on talent, and no way could we be worse than before. I think this team is going to be awesome. I see an exciting season coming up, and I’m stoked. Again, it may be me, but I think we are stacked with talent and I think they love Raheem which is half the battle. I think we sill start the season 3-0, and Leftwich is going to spend a good deal of time on his back. This is going to be an ATL type turnaround, and if we get Penn back, I say we make the playoffs. Wildcard, right now, I’m calling it, with Mike Williams as rookie of the year. Freeman is going to light em up and cadi will run for a 1000 yds. The Bucs will kick butt and that’s all I have to say about that. I wonder which category I fit into??? LOL

  39. Patrick Says:

    There’s no RACISM on this blog. Don’t even start with that crap. The same RACISM excuse is always being made for that socialist president who’s screwing up the United States of America. I have nothing against black people, and am not a racist. But I just hate that if they’re doing a terrible job at what they do, they can a free pass just because they’re black.

    January 17, 2009: Raheem Morris becomes the HC of the Buccaneers

    January 20, 2009: Barack Obama becomes the president of the United States.

    Jan. 09 was one of worst months ever!

  40. JimBuc Says:

    RahDom — no place for racism here. Ridiculous.

  41. sgw94 Says:

    @louie

    After some of these last few comments you really believe that? Well more power to you. I believe what I see

  42. RahDomDaBest Says:

    Actually, I think it’s racist to give a coach a free pass because of his race.

    Again, you know damn well if it were a white guy, nobody would be all over his nuts like they are now. Raheem hasn’t even done anything yet and you guys are already saying 5 or 6 wins gets him his job back. already making excuses. Already looking for scapegoats. Is it a coincidence that the 4 of the 5 major scapegoats are white?

    Olson, Ruud, Trueblood, Sabby and of course everyone’s favorite Michael Clayton.

    And the people making them the scapegoats are the same people apologizing for Raheem Morris.

    After Raheem gets let go following this season, will all of the Buc’s fans be able to bury the Dungy, Gruden hatchet? Because it’s too painfully obvious why the old Dungy fans just love Raheem.

    If Cowher were to come in as the coach next season, would the Raheem apologists be up in arms? Or would only Tony Dungy be a suitable replacement for Raheem?

  43. sensiblefan Says:

    …just keep on digging that hole for yourself Rah…

  44. BigMacAttack Says:

    I don’t really see Black & White (notice I put Black first because it sounds better that way). I see Intelligent and Ignorant, and Lord knows we have more than enough Ignorant Americans, and they come in all shapes and colors.

  45. eric Says:

    I am a diehard buc fan, Mr. Morris. As a matter of fact I was one before you were born.

    If Rah turns it around ill be delighted. I wish him well and grand success.
    Ill be at the Cleveland game yelling my head off for the bucs.

    Do I think He will? Nope.

    I also do not believe he should have ever been hired. Am I pissed off about that? Absolutely. Deeply.

  46. eric Says:

    I like Rah so much let me give him some advice:

    Shut up and win some freakin games.

    Us buccaneer lovers would really appreciate that. Then I suppose we will all be smart enough to recognize the brilliance of your plan.

    What a piece of work this guy is.

  47. sgw94 Says:

    @eric

    The funny thing is if you stay true to your word then you pretty much proved Coach Morris’ point. You said that even though the Bucs sucked last year you will still be at the game yelling for them. Id say that would qualify as support. You say you will be doing this because you are a diehard fan. A bucs lover is the term he used. I am assuming you don’t believe everyone will be doing the same, especially since there might be blackouts now but I could be wrong. Still I would say from your words you don’t consider yourself an “average” fan.

    So what exactly do you disagree with in his statement?

  48. eric Says:

    Steve,

    My interpretation is that all buccaneer “lovers” suppport and appreciate his plan, while the average fan does not.

    Thus, he does not recognize that a buccaneer fan may be diehard, but fundamentally think his plan and coaching sucks, like me, but still support the team.

    I think there are quite a few of us out there like that.

  49. Bucnjim Says:

    It’s sad, but we had to listen to some of the same crap when Dungy first became Head Coach. No one wants to talk about how Dungy’s first season began; what 0-7 0-8? Won a few games at the end of the year. Who does that sound like? It’s really very simple; a few more wins will show improvement which is what REBUILDING means. Currently; this isn’t a team filled with pro bowlers. Kind of like when Dungy took over! If the team stays the course and they only win 3 then Raheem will have used up his chance to be head coach. I can only think of one reason there is so much hate directed at this guy and it’s very sad. There are so many people who want to see him fail it isn’t even funny! If he does succeed; all these people will disappear and find someone else to hate on.

  50. sgw94 Says:

    But what gave you that impression cuz its surely not what he said? Did you click the link? Here’s the precedeing paragraph.

    “With only one week of training camp open to the public this year, Morris is not concerned about Bucs fans jumping off the bandwagon. Instead, he plans to use last year’s struggles as motivation for his players and to regain fan support.”

    So basically he’s acknowledging the obvious. That only die hards are going to support the team after last year’s debacle. Nothing about agreeing with his plan or not. And he’s going to work to win the average fans back with what happens on the field. You have a right to not like something he said of course. But I just don’t see where he said what you think he did.

  51. eric Says:

    Dungy went 5-3 the second half of the 2006 season, then 10-6 the second season.

    Should Rah do that, I am quite sure all of bucdom will give him his due.

    If you look at the 2006 bucs, compared to the 05 bucs, they improved in almost every statistical category. Dilfer improved. Running game improved, defense improved.

    None of those things occurred in 2009.

    Steve, you played for Tony Dungy. Do you think Rah is comparable?

  52. sgw94 Says:

    @eric

    Its not a fair comparison because I dont think most coaches compare to Coach Dungy

  53. Bucnjim Says:

    I’m assuming you meant from 2004 (5-11) to 2005 (11-5). That was a great turnaround and one of Gruden’s finest jobs coaching. I was and still am a huge Gruden fan! He is a hell of a coach and great on MNF. If you ever met him in person you would understand his passion for the game. Nicest guy you’ll ever meet and there isn’t a second in the day where he isn’t talking football to anyone who will listen. The problem in the NFL is your message and motivation no longer has the same affect when you’ve been with a team too long. Just like with Dungy; Gruden suffered the same end result. I hated to see him go! I am a Bucs fan though and in order to do that I have to wish Raheem great success. I would like fans to at least give him a fair shot! The end will come soon enough if he isn’t up to the challenge so what does it hurt.

  54. Radio Mushmouth Says:

    Our “bright” young coach strikes again…..gotta love it.

  55. eric Says:

    steve,

    I agree. I am not the one who makes that comparison. People who support Coach Morris and his plan point to this being “just like 1996″.

    I am simply pointing out it isn’t because Rah’s credentials and abilities do not match Tony’s credentials and abilities.

    And I see Jimbuc agrees.

  56. BigMacAttack Says:

    And “Radio Mushmouth” strikes again….

  57. sgw94 Says:

    @eric

    Ive said before that the situations are different from 1996 so I agree with you there.

  58. Bucnjim Says:

    No one knew what kind of coach Dungy was going to be and most people questioned the hiring.

  59. BigMacAttack Says:

    There had to be at least 50 coaches in the NFL that were more qualified to be the Bucs’ Head Coach when Raheem was promoted again. The Glazers were definitely driving by the seat of their pants, but hopefully it all works out. I tend to think it will for the most part, but another Superbowl may be a reach, even in 10 years. Masterminds win Superbowls. Has an idiot coach, like say “Bill Peterson” ever won a Superbowl?

  60. thomas Says:

    Only idiots trying to justify this youth, errrr cheap, movement are trying to stretch and reach for comparisons to 1996.

    For one, the 1996 staff was loaded with studs: Dungy, Monte, Tomlin, Lovie, Rod Marinelli, Herm and I am sure I am missing some.

    This staff is incompetence and inexperience leading – well I am not sure. If Rah and Olson were position coaches I don’t think any of us would be so disenfranchised. How many years of experience as Coordinators did Dungy and Monte have before being thrust into being responsible for more than just a position?

    Rah is lost and clueless as a Head Coach. I am sure that he is a nice kid and the players like him, maybe that helps maybe that hurts, but if he he is bad everywhere else – well you see what we saw last year.

    The odds of drafting a starter in the NFL are less than 50%, the odds of drafting a franchise player – much less, the odds of drafting 3 or 4 hall of famers like sapp, brooks, lynch and maybe Barber – astronomically poor. You can’t bank on that, if you want to build up young players – you need someone who has been successful doing that!

    Laat year had no resemblence to 1996 – first of all Dungy advocates – sticking to the plan – not dumping / scapegoating assistants partially into a year when things arent working out. Dungy and Gruden (any other HC worth his salt) NEVER would have done that. Dungy preached sticking to the plan and responsibility – two things these guys don’t understand.

    If you think that last year was 1996, well lets see what happens in 2010 compared to 1997? Any takers – of course not – because this team may win 4 or 5 games but only based on weakness of schedule.

  61. Bucnjim Says:

    Sorry Eric; 1995-1996 & then 1997 when they went 10-6. I hope you don’t think I didn’t like Dungy because I loved Dungy. He was a great role model as well as coach. Everyone loved him and just like Gruden it was a sad day when he left. I like your arguement except for the fact that in 1997 Dungy had one hell of a roster. The Bucs sent 7 players to the pro bowl that year and averaged about that many every year during his coaching tenure. Some great players from that time in the 90′s and early 2000′s. Some of those guys are future HOF’s! We just don’t have that kind of talent on the team right now. Let Raheem make his own history! If it’s bad he’ll only have this year anyway.

  62. Bucnjim Says:

    Thomas you need to relax a little. No one is trying to justify anything. These are simple comparisons nothing more. Sam Wyche assembled some very nice talent and Dungy, Kiffin etc… was able to lead that talent to the playoffs for many years. Of course they added to this talent! The fact remains that they had many many pro bowl (even HOF) players to build around. There are no pro bowlers on this team (yet) so no you can’t really compare much except that both struggled early. Sam Wyche was actually 7-9 the year before. All I’ve ever said is Raheem is the coach now and I’ll support him until he succeeds or gets fire. We’ll know soon enough….

  63. ReaderM Says:

    I don’t comment much on here but in this case, I felt that personally I have to agree with Louie’s assessment that he is getting a bad rap, just because you are a fan of the team doesn’t mean you have to be supportive of the direction. Do I agree with his stand/opinion on a lot of things, honestly No, I wouldn’t be ashamed to tell him so. However to attack him on his fandom in this case I think is wrong. He doesn’t agree with the direction of the franchise, big deal, looking at how others have expressed their distaste, I have to at least give him respect for going about it in a manner that I can just respectfully disagree with him instead of feeling like I would be talking to some lunatic. His assessment that if “So, yes, if the Bucs win, everybody is going to love Morris.” is just true. If Raheem starts winning @ least 80% of the hate of him will start to disappear. Just look at many of his react to Freeman now as compared to Draft night.

    Steve, you had some good counter points to and I have to agree, right now only people who are even following the Bucs closely are those who are hardcore fans, positive and negatively, and from them will come there support while they also have to REGAIN the trust of the others.

    Finally to RahDomDaBest and sidenote to eric, why the hell bring race into this, and make no mistake RahDomDaBest, you are the person who brought race into this equation where honestly it had no place. Last time I checked, neither of them is getting a free pass “because they are black.” Last time I check both of them don’t exactly have high approval rankings and even among their most die hard supporters have said everything is not going as it could be hoped. To bring race into this debate not only demeans what they guys have/will do but also how far we as a country must go to stop trying to look/locate such petty things.

    /End Rant and this is why I don’t comment much

  64. thomas Says:

    @sgw:

    To your point: re buc lovers will be supportive and others won’t. Walking in to RayJay week 1 – I think that we all were supportive of Rah – I was. I thought that he was going to coach that team to over-achieve, be competitive, maybe even surprise and win 7 games.

    As the season went on I, and I assume others, could not deny how incompetent he and the team looked – then I wanted an offseason change.

    It reminded me of the Gators post-spurrier – many of us were pro-zook at first, then saw how sub-par he was and wanted him out.

    Once you come to that opinion: only a major turnaround can change that feeling. Going from 3-5 wins isn’t enough. Yes this team needed to get younger but it didnt need to step back that far for that long.

    I hold all of the higher ups accountable,not just rah. Thoughts?

  65. eric Says:

    Hey how cool is it that smucks like us get to converse with Mr. white about these matters. Kudos to Joe for setting up that opportunity.

    Sure beats listening to the inlaws and pretending to be interested in their opinions about something!

    Bucnjim:

    Tony started coaching the bucs in 96, which was his only losing season. In 1997 they went 10-6. And in 99 a damn zebra kept him and Steve out of the Super Bowl!

  66. sgw94 Says:

    @thomas

    Heres the thing, in my opinion whether you like Coach Morris or hate him if you’re a diehard fan you pull for the team to win every week. That doesnt mean you always think they will but you arent wishy washy about the support. Or hope for their failure.

    Now look through this comment thread and you’ll find more than one person saying support for Coach Mortis and thereby the team is because he’s black. Setting aside the absurdity of the statement since two coaches who arent black but picked before us in the draft and they kept their jobs, do you REALLY believe a person vould make that statement and simultaneously support the team?

    I dont and although those guys are extreme examples there are other people who commrnt here who say stuff that give me every reason to believe that they’re hoping the Bucs suck this year to vindicate their predictions.

  67. eric Says:

    Hey wait a minute, don”t anybody include me in any race stuff. I could care less what race Coach Morris is, or anybody else for that matter. Nor do I believe any players support rah because of his race. I think they just like the guy and want to play well for him.

    He is likable.

    Surely we have moved passed crap like that!

  68. thomas Says:

    There are certainly idiots who want rah to fail b/c of his race. That is truly absurd.

    What is different about my position is that I think Rah is a bad coach and I want him gone soon so that less damage is done and so the true turnaround can begin.

    I believe that Rah and Dom are interfering with real improvement and if I am right in 4 months I am going to be pissed that we messed around with this Rah debacle 1 additional year.

    If I am wrong, and Rah starts winning,I will be thrilled but I just cant comprehend that that is possible after what I saw last year.

  69. sgw94 Says:

    @thomas

    I understand your position and notice if you look through every post Ive done and through every comment Ive ever made here Ive never said Coach Morris is a great coach. However I did see potential after he took over the defense and at this point its obvious he’s going to be our coach so for me the proof will be in the pudding. If we suck to start the year I dont think he will be retained. If he does well then he keeps his job. From where Im sitting thats just fine and I will judge him on that. No need for me to go in hoping he fails because for all I know he will turn it around and I personally could never root against the Bucs anyway. If we do better than I have predicted nobody will be happier than me. If we suck worse and he’s fired I also won’t shed any tears.

    I just recognize not everybody sees it that way.

    It is what it is.

  70. JimBuc Says:

    Steve — hats off to you for taking the time to respond so many times.

    Unbelieveable to me that RahDom and other trying to make this about race. Pure ignorance. Sad.

  71. BigMacAttack Says:

    I agree that there are no average/casual fans here. All fanatics, every last one of us, whether we admit it or not, and that makes us family, to a certain extent. As Buc Fans we all want the same thing ultimately, success, wins, Lombardi. How we/they go about it we may agree to disagree. But let no other fan of any other team, come into our house, and insult our team. Then we should all unite and defend this house and quash any outside threat. I still think this team is going to kick some serious butt and everyone will soon be happy, but we need fans in the stands, and we need them bad. If you have the money and have the time, go to the games, and drag anyone else you can. Blackouts suck, because I need to TIVO the games for slo-mo replays, especially all those beautiful TD passes Josh is going to throw, and I can’t wait to see GMC master that 5 step ghost move.

  72. eric Says:

    ?We will remain hungry,” Morris said. “We’ll treat the first day like it was your last. Treat your last day like it was your first. We’ll go out there and be our best self every single day, and that is what’s going to make us win”

    Your kidding me right, the man is really going back to the best self thing?

    auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  73. Capt.Tim Says:

    SGW94- thanks for all your insight! When you first posted that you believed there were people who appeared to want the Coach Morris and the Bucs to fail, I thought it wasn’t possible. Now I realize that I was very naive. To accommodate several different agendas, there are people that post here hoping the Bucs and Raheem fail. A few of those agendas have become very clear, and are just ugly. To wish failure on your own team is a kind of treason. Some of the other things that surfaced are just embarrassing and disgusting. You were right about some of the people who post here. I am just embarrassed that I couldn’t see it, and that there are “fans” wanting the team to suck this year. Unbelievable

  74. eric Says:

    http://www.become-your-best-self.com/

    For those that want to read up on the topic.

  75. eric Says:

    Oprah is into it to!

    http://www.oprah.com/community/community/spirit/bestself it too!

  76. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    I couldn’t disagree more with the statement that people support Raheem Morris and Dungy because they are black, and not Gruden because he is white. That is untrue on so many levels it’s hard to even start. I’m white, and I hope more than anything that Raheem succeeds, because it means the Buccaneers succeed. It has nothing to do with what color he is. The comparisons with Dungy are there because they were both first time coaches given a team with low talent. There were a lot of people against both hires for a variety of reasons. I don’t think he’s been given a fair (or enough) opportunity to show what he can do, as he was given a team last year with very little talent (and the talent he had was VERY raw). That being said, if we have another poor season, I can’t really argue with him being let go. But until that happens, I will support him and this team because that’s what fans do.

    Gruden lost the support of many fans (and players) mainly because we never really developed into a championship caliber team after the Super Bowl, and for him being an overall jerk (I’ll take a Raheem Morris press conference over a Jon Gruden press conference any day). Our offense never really seemed to get better, we got older every year, and it seemed as if a lot of the players quit on him. That was very obvious to most casual fans, and it ultimately led to some of the fans wanting him out of Tampa. I think he basically wore out his welcome, but that’s pretty normal for all coaches who are in the same place for 7 years.

    I just don’t get it why people are still bitching and moaning about Morris being the coach. He is, get over it, and support the team until he’s not. At least wait until the Cleveland game!!!

  77. Capt.Tim Says:

    Mr. White. As someone who played for the Bucs, spilled sweat and Blood for the Bucs, and is still deeply invested in the team, I feel you are owed an apology for some of the garbage posted here today. I still believe the vast majority of fans love this team, support the coach, and want to see the Bucs win every game! Like you, I don’t know if Coach Morris is going to be a great coach or not. I have seen positive signs, so I to am willing to give him a chance. I hope he succeeds ! Hawaiian Buc- great post ! Agreed with all your observations . Ya nailed it! Good stuff!

  78. tampa2 Says:

    Coach Dungy had class and a direction. Morris has neither. He is an amateur head coach as best. And he proved that time & time again last year. To accuse us of be racist because we don’t like him as a coach is simply showing your own racism. As a Buc fan, I abhorred Culverhouse. as I am sure most of us did. Did that make me a racist? Whether a good coach or bad isn’t decided by what color a man’s skin is. It’s all based upon whether the man is qualified to do the job. Morris has proven that he isn’t qualified. To even insinuate a fan is racist because he doesn’t like a coach is the lowest form of an excuse for ineptitude.

  79. Capt.Tim Says:

    BigMac, I realize you are trying to be the peacemaker, and gloss things over. It’s admirable. It’s also the easy way out. Being a man means you gotta stand up for what’s right, not what’s easy. I am not like “family” with a couple of these guys. RahDom and Patrick both showed an ugly, racist side today. It’s sad, and embarrassing for all the rest of us, who really are like family. I won’t pretend to approve, because that’s how that crap continues to be around- I don’t approve, and want everyone to know that is not acceptable behavior in intelligent conversation. Eric, lightningBuc, tampa2 argue constantly with me about all things Buccaneer. But while I disagree with them on everything, there is still a level of respect there! I believe they are Buc fans, and want the best for the team. They are disillusioned, and occasionally dillusional, but Buc Fans none the less, and we kinda are family. But people that want to see the team fail are not fans. And when you judge any manny anything than the actions if that man, you aren’t someone I wanna be”family” with! We fans are better people than that! And by the way, it’s so cool to have Mr.white sit on our discussions!! Sad it was the only one I’ve been embarrassed to read.

  80. Capt.Tim Says:

    BigMac, I realize you are trying to be the peacemaker, and gloss things over. It’s admirable. It’s also the easy way out. Being a man means you gotta stand up for what’s right, not what’s easy. I am not like “family” with a couple of these guys. RahDom and Patrick both showed an ugly, racist side today. It’s sad, and embarrassing for all the rest of us, who really are like family. I won’t pretend to approve, because that’s how that crap continues to be around- I don’t approve, and want everyone to know that is not acceptable behavior in intelligent conversation. Eric, lightningBuc, tampa2 argue constantly with me about all things Buccaneer. But while I disagree with them on everything, there is still a level of respect there! I believe they are Buc fans, and want the best for the team. They are disillusioned, and occasionally dillusional, but Buc Fans none the less, and we kinda are family. But people that want to see the team fail are not fans. And when you judge any manny anything than the actions if that man, you aren’t someone I wanna be”family” with! We fans are better people than that! And by the way, it’s so cool to have Mr.white sit on our discussions!! Sad it was the only one I’ve been embarrassed to read.

  81. Capt.Tim Says:

    “judge any man by anything other than the actions of that man” is how that should have read”. Sorry BIG fingers, SMALL iphone

  82. Not A Rocket Surgeon Says:

    “…Be your best self…” comes from Joe Gardi, Coach Morris’s mentor / Coach at Hofstra. Who recently passed away – RIP.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Gardi

    If Coach Morris’s message is resinating with the people who count. I’m good with it. He’s shown that he’ll change things that aren’t working… if his mantra is working – good, if it isn’t it will be fixed.

    I want my team to win. That means everyone being successful. I’ll be critical when necessary… I am a bucs fanatic – not frenetic.

  83. BigMacAttack Says:

    Maybe it’s me again, but somehow I missed how the whole racism thing got started here. Opinions and comments are often miss worded, typed incorrectly, or misconstrued. I really don’t think anybody was trying to be prejudiced against Rah because he is black. That is my reading, which may not always agree with anyone else’s reading, and maybe I am naive. I think to often people throw the race thing out there and try to make it stick to the wall. It almost has homophobia connotations. See I don’t picture any of these guys as racists, opinionated for sure, unhappy most definitely, but racist, not in my view. I also think it is misguided to say someone isn’t a man for being nice or taking the high road. Bob ‘Captain Kangaroo’ Keeshan and Lee Marvin both were US Marine WWII heroes in the Pacific. You would never know that by their demeanor in their latter years. Don’t mistake my positive outlook on the Bucs or my belief in uniting behind our team as weakness. History has a way of repeating itself, even when circumstances may slightly differ. We often take comments too seriously when they may be meant as jokes or slanted humor. That is the beauty of free speech which is far more valuable than political correctness.

  84. eric Says:

    Joe Gardi from Hofstra said it too?

    ok then, my bad.

  85. Gary Says:

    What, now that the “best self” thing isn’t attributed to Rah, its not the stupidest thing you ever heard?

    I swear if anyone besides Rah had said the underwear, face on people thing you fools would be saying that were some great motivational words.

  86. eric Says:

    sarcasm is lost on some.

 
 

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