Defense Rules, But Still Need A QB

May 2nd, 2014

mike glennon 0502

OK, it’s Friday and it’s time to knock off this nonsense. Joe can’t take it any longer and he sure as hell is not going to carry this rage over into the weekend. Enough is enough.

To win a Super Bowl in the NFL, more than once every 40 years, you need a quarterback. No less than an average quarterback. At some point, your team needs to score, unless you bank on six pick-sixes a game. Wanna lay money that happens?

This fallacy of how a quarterback is irrelevant seemed to creep up in an interesting article by Woody Cummings of the Tampa Tribune, this notion that you don’t need a quarterback to win a Super Bowl, that your defense and rushing attack can carry a team (and yes, the accident of the Baltimore Crows winning a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer is the extreme exception, far from the norm).

While Joe agrees a powerful running game is a great asset, a trait Joe enjoys watching as a football fan, a team must have a decent quarterback to go the distance.

A guy Joe very much respects, Mike Mayock, talked about this idea of how a defense and a running game wins championships.

“Football is a cyclical game, and I think it’s intriguing that the two best teams in the league last year, in my opinion, Seattle and San Francisco, what was their recipe for success? They played great defense, they ran the football and they asked their quarterbacks to make a less percentage of plays than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady,’’ Mayock said. “So the two best teams in the league utilized the tailback and the run game. I wouldn’t be surprised to see that come back in vogue.’’

It will certainly be in vogue with the Bucs. Smith said almost immediately upon his return to Tampa that he wants the Bucs to get back to the style of football that made them one of the NFL’s best teams in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

“When I was here before, there was a certain brand of football that you expected from us,’’ said Smith, an assistant under Dungy with the Bucs from 1996 to 2000. “You knew it would be relentless, because we played hard and you got that each week from us and we’re going to get back to that.’’

Of course, Joe knows there are many Bucs fans nodding their head here. Tell Joe, please, how many Super Bowls did Lovie win with Rex Grossman?

Colin Kaepernick and Russell Wilson may not be Joe Montana or Dan Marino, but they sure as hell aren’t Bruce Gradkowski and Mike Glennon.

(Column Intermission Rant No. 1: Knock off the “Glennon had better stants than Geno Smith” crapola. Smith would have had better stats, too, if he was throwing five-yard passes on third-and-nine each and every game. Glennon had much better weapons to work with than Smith, and still finished last — LAST! — in the NFL in total offense.)

(Column Intermission Rant No. 2: The same friggin’ people who rag constantly on Shaun King, one of three quarterbacks to lead the Bucs to an NFC championship game, are the very same knobs who cry and bellyache that you don’t need a quarterback and defense wins championships. If that is the case, how come the Bucs in the 1999 NFC title game turned in one of the greatest defensive performances in NFL history against the “Greatest Show on Turf” and couldn’t win the game?)

(Column Intermission Rant No. 3: When the Bucs won their first and only Super Bowl in January 2003, they did so with a Pro Bowl quarterback!)

Another thing eating at Joe’s craw, when Father Dungy was with the Bucs and people pestered him about opening up the offense and he responded, in so many words, “Well, this is the way we won in Pittsburgh.” That’s not exactly an accurate statement in total.

Go watch the “America’s Game” episode of the 1978 Steelers. Mel Blount, one of Dungy’s friends on the team, talked about how Steelers coach Chuck Noll addressed the team before the season and, because of the Mel Blount Rule, which changed how defenders could guard receivers, the Steelers were going to start throwing the ball. In fact, the Steelers won three of their four Super Bowls in the 1970s not on the legs of Franco Harris or Rocky Bleier, but on the arm of Terry Bradshaw.

Ben Volin of the Boston Globe documented how teams can dodge the bullet of rotten drafts if they have a solid quarterback. Teams that don’t have a solid quarterback are essentially urinating in the wind.

Can we please stop regurgitating this wives tale that you don’t need a quarterback to win a Super Bowl? Having a strong defense makes you a better team, a good ground game will give you a chance to succeed, but you need a quarterback to be elite. It’s really that simple.

164 Responses to “Defense Rules, But Still Need A QB”

  1. ToesOnTheLine Says:

    Don’t think Geno Hayes was throwing to many passes last year Joe, but we all make mistakes (like the Bucs did drafting a can’t miss QB named Trent Dilfer @ 6 and like the folks giving Glennon no chance are making)

  2. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    Is Joe the head coach of the Bucs, or is it Lovie Smith? Sometimes these columns make that point confusing. Someone help me out here.

  3. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Quality rant Joe, and 100% accurate. Just to piggyback on what you said, the rules in today’s NFL make it next to impossible for defenses to dominate week in and week out. Seattle has a fantastic defense, but they don’t win a championship without Russell Wilson. That can’t be argued.

    A great defense will win you games. You may even get lucky and have your defense carry you deep in the playoffs one year. However, only great QB play will make you a contender year in and year out. Look at the best QB’s in the game. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that they are in the hunt year in and year out.

  4. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    No debates about needing a QB. It’s just that your opinion of what a good starting QB is, is far from unanimous.

    If Glennon develops into a starter anywhere, many will relish rehashing your trite backup comments.

    Like or not, a team friendly resigning of Freeman (as you espoused) would be easily 7-8 mill a year (if you think his agent would have even accepted). We now know that a team friendly resigning of Freeman would have been a disaster.

  5. Harry Says:

    True Story:

    Yesterday, I was in a CVS to buy Mother’s Day cards. The male cashier who was about mid to late 30′s (who later claimed to be a football expert), looked at me and said “…I did not know Tampa Bay won a World Championship”. I then realized I had on my well stained Bucs Championship t-shirt. I looked at him and was very surprised to see he was serious. I said, “yeah, a long time ago, in 2002″.

    I have been a Bucs fan since 1989 when I moved here (previously an Oilers fan – go Earl Campbell!). I have to admit that little story gave my pride a little pain. Like all of you, I want our Bucs to be relevant again. I believe that STARTS with a franchise QB that will not be on the roster YET for another 6 days!!!

    Let the New Bucs Era Begin!

  6. Joe Says:

    Don’t think Geno Hayes was throwing to many passes last year Joe,

    Joe has a hard time purging Geno Hayes’ name from his mind. That’s enough to get any Bucs fan irritable.

  7. ToesOnTheLine Says:

    If Joe Flacco and the Ravens D can win it why not Glennon or McCown and a stout Bucs D?

  8. Joe Says:

    Hawaiian:

    Quality rant Joe

    Thanks!

  9. Joe Says:

    If Joe Flacco and the Ravens D can win it why not Glennon or McCown and a stout Bucs D?

    *facepalm*

  10. Patrick Says:

    Sorry Joe, but your boy Shaun King is the reason we didn’t play the Titans in the Super Bowl. That’s why we rag on him. He didn’t “lead” us to the NFC Championship, our #1 ranked defense did.

  11. Joe Says:

    I have been a Bucs fan since 1989 when I moved here (previously an Oilers fan – go Earl Campbell!

    For three or four years, the best running back in the biz. No Super Bowls.

    O.J. Simpson for years was the best running back in the NFL. No Super Bowls.

    Adrian Peterson will be in the hall of fame. To date, no Super Bowls.

  12. ToesOnTheLine Says:

    Face palm if you must, but Flacco isn’t Manning, Brees, or Brady.

  13. Joe Says:

    Sorry Joe, but your boy Shaun King is the reason we didn’t play the Titans in the Super Bowl.

    Sssooo… that means you do need a good quarterback to win a Super Bowl, right?

  14. Joe Says:

    Face palm if you must, but Flacco isn’t Manning, Brees, or Brady.

    And he ain’t Glennon or McCown, either. Would be happy with Joe Flacco any day. Any day.

  15. Kevin Says:

    Tom brady was a tall lanky looser that nobody was chanting for to come into any game. I liked what I saw from Glennon. 30th ranked offense was not his fault. Lots of dropped passes and a rookie following his coached horrible play calling. Bad schemes on defense casing us to always play behind on offense. I can’t believe more people don’t see that he deserves a shot. I would like to see how he developed from what he handled last year. If our defense shows up and is as good as Lovies D’s of the past have been then McCown and Glennon are a nice set of QB’s with some good play calling from Tedford. If they do take a QB I would choose Murray in late second trading back into or third. But I think Glennon is light years smarter than Freeman ever will be. You can see he has the intelligence level to manage the game.

  16. Joe Says:

    Tom brady was a tall lanky looser

    Don’t know too many losers who beat Alabama in the Orange Bowl, but OK.

  17. Patrick Says:

    @Joe………Yes you need a good QB to win a Super Bowl, no doubt.

    But my point is that I think you give Shaun King way too much credit for the Bucs appearance in the 99 NFC Championship. All he had to do was score one touchdown and who knows, we might even have another Lombardi Trophy. He didn’t “lead” us to that game. The likes of Sapp, Brooks, and Nickerson are the reason we got there.

    Once again:

    Shaun King, one of two Bucs quarterbacks to lose an NFC Championship when the defense surrendered 11 or fewer points.

  18. Eric Says:

    Oh my here we go, Glennon is Tom Brady.

    Very similar to the “Raheem is Chuck Noll” delusion.

    Either needs lots of therapy and medicinal intervention.

  19. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    THIS GAME IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES!! YOU DOMINATE THE TRENCHES.. YOU DOMINATE THE GAME PERIOD! AND YOU DONT NEED ELITE QUARTERBACK PLAY TO WIN A SUPER BOWL !

  20. FLBoyInDallas Says:

    Glennon’s ceiling is to be an above-average NFL QB. Ceiling. Is that what we really want to aspire to? I do like Mike…but I also believe we can do better.

  21. Harry Says:

    @Patrick Says:
    “…my point is that I think you give Shaun King way too much credit for the Bucs appearance in the 99 NFC Championship….

    Once again: Shaun King, one of two Bucs quarterbacks to lose an NFC Championship when the defense surrendered 11 or fewer points…”

    Not sure Patrick, but I think Joe is using sarcasm in that statement. I mean, how can an NFl caliber QB (I use that term loosely) not be able to score more than 11 pts? But I would be curious as to Joes response – if he cares to enlighten us.

  22. Jordan Says:

    Only 25% of the 2013 1st round picks visited the team that eventually selected them. Certainly teams will intentionally use visits as pure smokescreens, but the fact that only 8 players matched with their future teams is quite alarming. Based solely on this information, it would appear that the Bucs have very high chance of selecting Watkins, Evans, Donald, or Mathews.

  23. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    Yeah seriously stop comparing Brady to Mike Glennon. I would seriously love to hear something anyone saw in Glennon last year that would lead you to believe he will have half the career of the golden boy. It’s funny, the only thing people have to support Glennon is to trash his supporting cast. While that may be true, it’s certainly not enough to tag him the next great QB. What did he do besides outperform a disinterested Josh Freeman? What games did he lead us to a last minute drive to get a victory? Everyone can brag about how great he played against Seattle, but remind me again, who won that game? How many points did he put up in the second half of that hall of fame worthy game? How many passing records did he break in that one? In 13 games, how many times did he throw for 300 yards?

    Basically, people are enamored with him because he didn’t screw up too bad and throw 3 picks a game. Sound about right? So he can be a conservative, game managing QB, as long as he has a great running game? Yeah, let’s bank our future on that winning us multiple championships. You can say you saw potential, but where exactly did you see it? What was his signature play? What game was he terrific in? When did he ever carry us? He didn’t, which is exactly why Lovie and Licht brought in a different starter. They watched the film, and I’m going to venture to say they know more than any of us. If they are wrong, where are the other teams beating down our doors to trade for him? I bet you Ryan Mallet (someone who has character issues and hasn’t played in a NFL game) would fetch more on the trade marked than Mike Glennon. You guys are probably the same people who ran out to get a Bruce Gradkowski jersey after his first couple games.

  24. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Joe has gone “Ted Kaczynski” on us…..

    “The same friggin’ people who rag constantly on Shaun King, one of three quarterbacks to lead the Bucs to an NFC championship game, are the very same knobs who cry and bellyache that you don’t need a quarterback and defense wins championships. If that is the case, how come the Bucs in the 1999 NFC title game turned in one of the greatest defensive performances in NFL history against the “Greatest Show on Turf” and couldn’t win the game?)”

    Exactly….we rag on Shaun King because he wasn’t very good!

    “Shaun King, one of two Buc Quarterbacks that lost a NFC Championship Game when his defense gave up 11 or fewer points.”

  25. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “THIS GAME IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES!! YOU DOMINATE THE TRENCHES.. YOU DOMINATE THE GAME PERIOD! AND YOU DONT NEED ELITE QUARTERBACK PLAY TO WIN A SUPER BOWL !”

    ——–

    Nobody is saying “elite”. You do, however, need very good QB play. You need to have a QB that has the ability, at times, to put the team on his back and score points with the game on the line. Just look at the champions of the Super Bowl – an overwhelming number had exactly that.

    Green Bay won a Super Bowl with a terrible defense, as well as a poor offensive line. Pittsburgh won 2 Super Bowls with a very bad OL. Go ahead and find me 3 Super Bowl winners with bad QB’s.

  26. lightningbuc Says:

    It’s just that your opinion of what a good starting QB is, is far from unanimous.

    _________

    ODB,

    Dead on. It takes big balls for the Joe(s) to espouse to know a good “backup” after 13 games when that same person wanted to extend Freeman. Stupid is as stupid does.

    JOE KNOWS QBs

  27. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    It’s so funny that the people complaining about Joe mentioning Shaun King don’t seem to realize that all they are doing is further proving his point. SMH

  28. Eric Says:

    I suspect this debate will be over soon, as our future Tom Brady is likely to be traded next week.

    Should get about four or five number ones for MG, if any NFL GM thinks he’s Brady.

    Lovie wants speed at every position, including QB, and will likely draft a guy who has it.

    He went out of his way to bring in a QB guru as OC, so franchise QB is surely part of his plan.

  29. Celly Says:

    Nobody is saying “elite”. You do, however, need very good QB play. You need to have a QB that has the ability, at times, to put the team on his back and score points with the game on the line. Just look at the champions of the Super Bowl – an overwhelming number had exactly that.

    FREAKING THIS!!!!!

    This is what the Anit-Glennon crowd has been trying to say all off-season. Its not that Glennon is horrible, but not ONCE did you see Glennon put the team on his back and will them to a win….especially in the 4th quarter when it matters most.

    The previous QB that you all love to hate at least showed the ability to do that.

    That is why “we” beleive that Glennon can be a VERY good backup. That is the missing “it” factor that we’ve been speaking of.

  30. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    We hear you singing Joe….perhaps the Baker Act awaits you next week if we don’t draft a QB. Intoxication won’t get you off the hook!…..We’ll come visit you at the Tampa General Psych ward.

    “And, They’re coming to take me away Ha Ha
    They’re coming to take me away ho ho he he ha ha to the funny farm where life is beautiful all the time, and I’ll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
    and they’re coming to take me away ha ha”

  31. Tony Says:

    Yeah, this pretty much sums up what I thought about your football IQ. What makes you think ANY of these quarterbacks are THE guy? Get out of fantasy land man, this is ruining your site.

  32. Tnew Says:

    Heres the thing about a qb. In today’s NFL unfortunately you dont have the luxury to draft a qb as an early pick then properly develop him by watching another qb play for a while. Favre who everyone likes to compare JF to sat a year behind an All-Pro before he went to Green Bay.

    Speaking of that QB that brought us a Super Bowl, he looked a whole bunch like Glennon.

    My big issue with Glennon is that he cant do what tedford asks of a QB. (kind of like when Gruden was trying to replace Brad Johnson from the start, we all remember the Rob Johnson, Jake Plummer, Bruce Gradkowski, Jeff Garcia thing) All being said, if somehow, JF, Bortles and Carr are all available, I would really try to move down. If only one is available, I might draft one of them with the understanding this would be two straight seasons with 0 immediate results from our 1st round pick.

    In my dream world, Robinson or Matthews slips to 7 and that is our pick, address the qb in the 2nd or 3rd.

    Keep Glennon around until a training camp injury happens somewhere, then trade from strength for a pick next year. (3rd hopefully)

  33. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Peyton Manning is a great QB and has won a SB…but he was embarrassed by Seattle’s defense. So, even a great QB doesn’t guarantee a victory.
    I agree that you need a really good QB coupled with an outstanding defense to win….so what else is new?

    Where was all this QB insanity last year? Did we think we had the answer? How does anyone know for sure that McCown in the next 2-3 years, or Glennon or whoever can’t get us there?

  34. Harry Says:

    @LUVMYBUCS Says:
    “…THIS GAME IS WON AND LOST IN THE TRENCHES!! YOU DOMINATE THE TRENCHES.. YOU DOMINATE THE GAME PERIOD!…”

    This is like an old “wive’s tale”. Yes, the battle begins with the lines, and it is important to have good bug uglies. According to PFF’s ranking of O-lines for 2013, the AZ Cardinals were #32 (finished 10-6 and were in playoff contention heading into week 17 – I’d say a damn good year for the #32 O-line), Seahawks were ranked #27 (I believe they won the SB), the Eagles were #1 (they had a decent year, which included very good QB play), the Cowboys were #3 (they pretty much sucked)…

    You can google the rest yourself, but it is clear there is no statistical correlation between an O-line and where the team ends up with their record. The line is important, but not as important as the QB

  35. Scoobs Says:

    Hostetler and Dilfer were average at best. Had very good defenses.

  36. finishers Says:

    I hope we pass on QB this year…

  37. Chef Paul Says:

    It’s almost unanimously thought that Schiano has a great eye for talent. Darn near UNANIMOUSLY . Why is Glennon the exception?

    It’s almost unanimously thought the coaching was terrible last year, and players will improve this year. Darn near UNANIMOUSLY. Again. Why is Glennon the exception.

    Some say Glennon had now wow factor. He didnt put his team on his shoulders. To that I offer this article:

    http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=111654

    In that article you will find this paragraph:

    “Former Bucs commander Greg Schiano had a pet peeve when players or members of the fourth estate talked about “making plays.” He felt that mentality was irresponsible. That people “making plays” means they weren’t doing their job; they were trying to do too much, thus, being undisciplined.”

    So why is everyone so up in arms that Glennon was following the coaching he was taught? Just imagine if he was taught by, oh I don’t know, A QUARTERBACK GURU.

  38. BFFL Says:

    With all else equal, an elite defense and average QB will always beat an elite QB and average defense.

  39. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Repost

    I. (Trent Dilfer)-In that game, Dilfer completed 12-26 passes for 153 yards and one touchdown. In his career he threw 113 touchdowns, 129 interceptions, and had a QB rating of 70.2.

    II. (Jim Plunkett) won Super Bowls 15 and 18, and was the MVP of Super Bowl 15, he threw 13-21, had 261 yards, and three touchdowns. In Super Bowl 18 he threw 16-25, had 172 yards, and one touchdown. In his entire career Plunkett threw 164 touchdowns, 198 interceptions, and had the second lowest QB rating of any QB to win a Super Bowl—67.5. In 12 of his 16 seasons Plunkett threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

    III. (Ken Stabler)-Stabler played 15 seasons in the NFL. In those 15 seasons he only threw more touchdowns than interceptions five times. He had 194 touchdowns and 222 interceptions in his career for a QB rating of 75.3. In his only Super Bowl win he was 12-19 for 180 yards, one touchdown, and one interception.

    IV. (Jeff Hostetler)- In that game Hostetler went 20-32, threw 222 yards, and had 1 touchdown-In his career he threw 94 touchdowns, 71 interceptions, and had a QB rating of 80.5-He only started 16 games in a season once in his 15 years in the league.

    V. (Doug Williams) So how is Doug Williams on this list? In his career Doug Williams had only 100 touchdowns and 93 interceptions, with a QB rating of 69.4. That is the 3rd lowest career QB rating of any QB who has won a Super Bowl.

    VI. (Terry Bradshaw)- (CAREER CMP 51.9%)-threw 212 touchdown, 210 interceptions He posted one of the worst seasons ever by a QB in 1970, with six touchdowns and 24 interceptions in 13 games-(Do Remember the lobs he use to just throw up to Swann & Stallworth) If It wasn’t for the defense-No Rings

    VII. (Joe Namath)-He also has the worst career QB rating by a Super Bowl QB ever, at 65.5.In the big game Joe completed 17 of 28 passes for 206 yards and no touchdowns or interceptions. If not for the guarantee he would never be recognized as a great QB.

    VIII. (Brad Johnson)-Johnson completed 18 of 34 passes for 215 yards, with two touchdowns and one interception. Brad has put up solid numbers throughout his career, but nothing eye popping, 166 touchdowns and 122 interceptions. That’s only an average of nine touchdowns per year in his 17 years.

    Honorable Mention-*Jim McMahon, Joe Flacco, Mark Rypien, Phil Simms, and Eli Manning

  40. Couch Fan Says:

    Great points Chef Paul. Insane that so many just want to write the guy off.

  41. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I’m sorry to say this, but it takes an entire team to win consistently. Not just in the trenches. Not just the QB. Not just the RB and not just the secondary.

    It takes a team.

    However, the position that takes longest to master? Quarterback. Therefore, common sense dictates that it should be one of the first positions filled, not the last.

  42. BUCSLEGENDS Says:

    @ Chef Paul…., NICE !!!!!!! GO BUCS !!!!!!!

  43. Harry Says:

    @Chef Paul;
    I often find myself in agreement with you. And your comments are always intelligent and thought out, including the one above.

    But, as I have said before, I just don’t see “IT” with MG8. I even saw “IT” with our previous ‘mental-breakdown” QB; we all did. It gave us hope. We came into 2013 believing we were playoff bound. Everyone did. But I am sorry to say, I don’t need another 5 games, or 16 games to watch Glennon. He is a very good backup, maybe he could even get to be in the bottom third of starting QBs. But he is not a good franchise QB, IMO.

  44. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Chef Paul Says
    “So why is everyone so up in arms that Glennon was following the coaching he was taught? Just imagine if he was taught by, oh I don’t know, A QUARTERBACK GURU.”

    I really hope you don’t think we have a QB Guru right now. Tedford’s only QB to make it in the pros was Aaron Rogers, and he had to attend special camps for three years to fix all the issues.

    It is as simple as this. Glennon did not prove himself last year for whatever reason. So, therefore, we do not have an ANSWER to the position.

    So if he has not proven himself yet, there is nothing wrong with getting true competition in against him and may the best man win.

    Kafka certainly is not true competition.

  45. tj187 Says:

    I 100% agree with Joe. Glennon put up decent stats last year but that’s all it was…stats. He made almost no big plays. If anything his big plays were VJax bailing him out. I feel like anyone that watched our games should be able to see that. I had more confidence in Freeman leading us to a win in the 4th quarter, and that’s saying something. I especially hate when people argue that Peyton or Brees weren’t that great starting out…that’s true but neither were countless busts that were supposed to be a lot better Glennon. At his very best in a few years Glennon could be like Joe Flacco…good enough to be carried to a win if every other part of the team is playing amazing….is that really what we want to bank on?

  46. Dougy balls Says:

    (Column Intermission Rant No. 3: When the Bucs won their first and only Super Bowl in January 2003, they did so with a Pro Bowl quarterback!)
    And he was a journeyman QB And the way McCown was playing last year he could have been a probowler with a full season of stats

  47. Chef Paul Says:

    @ Harry

    Thanks for the compliment. Personally, I do need to some more games out of Glennon before I decide. I dont really know what to think of him yet, but I see more promise than you and others see. One things for sure though L&L have probably made up their minds by now. Maybe L&L agree with you. And if they do, there will be no bitching from me. I wont argue with them, but I’ll argue with fans like us, until their decision is known.

  48. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Chef Paul,

    Are you saying that you believe Glennon didn’t put the team on his back because he was coached not to? If that’s the case, then I don’t want Glennon on the team at all. Any fool knows that a QB needs to make plays. If he was stupid enough to listen to Schiano to NOT make plays, then he’s not worth a roster spot. He wouldn’t be a winner if he did that.

  49. Chef Paul Says:

    Bonzai,

    No. I think Lovie is quarterback guru. No, I’m kidding.

    But about Tedford. I know very little of him other than the what Joe and other media have said. But he is widely considered a guru, and I’ll be positive and think of him as a guru until he shows he isnt.

  50. tj187 Says:

    Schiano knew talent and drafted well. He drafted great players that fit into his system. Unfortunately, his offensive system required a game manager qb who neither turned the ball over or “made plays”. And that is exactly what Glennon is.

  51. Chef Paul Says:

    “If he was stupid enough to listen to Schiano to NOT make plays, then he’s not worth a roster spot. He wouldn’t be a winner if he did that.”

    See, I find that to be a good thing. I think Glennon is humble enough to understand a head coach is probably smarter and knows following orders is what is best. Too bad for, us Schiano wasn’t.

  52. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Everyone has their fair share of good points. And that Season Rogers had a few years back a once in a generation type of an even.

    TGIF!!!

  53. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    IMO Glennon can take us to the promise land. Kid showed a lot of promise as a Rookie.

  54. Jeagan1999 Says:

    REPLY RANT #1: If you have a strong defense, and a solid running attack, you don’t need an elite “Peyton Manning” type QB…as Peyton Manning himself so ably demonstrated at the SuperBowl! With a strong D and a hard running game you can rely on a game manager QB who doesn’t turn the ball over, can stretch the field occasionally and picks up first downs when he has to. Which is why Brad Johnson has a ring on his finger! He was not a prolific passer…but he made the ProBowl because he was smart, accurate and a good game manager. I can see Mike Glennon as that type of QB in the next few years with the right cast around him.

    REPLY RANT #2: Are you telling us Joe that you would rather have Geno Smith at QB? If so, I think you have already reached your afternoon limit and need to call a cab for a ride home!

  55. Buc1987 Says:

    All you need is a game manager (Br-ad Johnson) and a dominant defense. I think Wilson and Kap are game managers too.

    Yes Joe I know Br-ad went to the Pro Bowl. Remember the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest, right.

    MCCown could be a decent game manager in the meantime until Lovie truly builds this defense up. The dominant defense of the Bucs past took a few years to become dominant. Tedford might see Glennon as more than capable of being a game manager and QB that he can teach. If so than that’s a steal as far as I’m concerned.

    If L&L feel there is a QB in the draft that fits their needs and he’s available, then I hope they take him. I STILL don’t think they are going to take a QB in this draft though. We’ll see if I’m right in 6 days. Odds are I’m wrong.

  56. Scoobs Says:

    Mark Rypien and Jim McMahon were okay QBs that also won a ring. Tavaris Jackson could have qbd for Seattle and still one. Hell Kafka and MG8 would have won also. Denver did not stop the run, à one armed man would have also won!

  57. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Chef Paul,

    I don’t want a follower to be the leader of this football team. And for the record, I don’t believe for one second that Glennon didn’t make plays because Schiano didn’t want him to.

    I think Glennon gets the most out of his potential, but it’s just not good enough. He doesn’t have any above average attributes – not a one. He doesn’t have a cannon for an arm. He’s not incredibly accurate. He obviously isn’t very mobile. He can’t make the big time throws. He doesn’t step up in the clutch. Reality is, at the end of the day, the cream rises to the top. A player with tons of talent is going to shine regardless of coaching and/or talent around him. You or I could coach Lavonte David to be an All-Pro. The same applies for GMC and Vincent Jackson. However, Glennon would need the absolute perfect fit just to be serviceable. That’s not good enough for the most important position in sports.

  58. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “All you need is a game manager (Br-ad Johnson) and a dominant defense. I think Wilson and Kap are game managers too.”

    ——–

    Did you really just type this? Please tell me this is sarcasm. Please tell me you are joking.

  59. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    “Mark Rypien and Jim McMahon were okay QBs that also won a ring. Tavaris Jackson could have qbd for Seattle and still one. Hell Kafka and MG8 would have won also. Denver did not stop the run, à one armed man would have also won!”

    —–

    Stupidity is spreading like a plague today! Did you even watch the Super Bowl? How many third downs did Russell Wilson convert? You think that’s easy? When did Mike Glennon become the third down master? And you say Denver didn’t stop the run???? Lynch almost hit 40 yards rushing – yeah, that was the difference all right. Russell Wilson had a 123.1 rating. When did Glennon ever have that high of a rating? You guys are pathetically pulling stuff out of your arses, but you are making yourself look more and more stupid in the process. Just stop now before it gets even worse.

    And I love how people are going all the way back to the 80s for examples of great defenses and average QB’s that won. Hell, why don’t we go back to the Packers of the 60s while you’re at it.

  60. Chef Paul Says:

    Hawaiian,

    “I don’t want a follower to be the leader of this football team.”

    I do. I want the Captain to follow orders from the General. I believe in the chain of commands very firmly.

    But don’t think it ALL was on Schiano, but he is a very, very conservative coach. Hence the run, run, pass, punt mentality all stinking game long. I have zero doubt in my mind Schiano drilled into him not to be stupid, not to be a hero. And Glennon, being a good Captain, did what he was ordered.

  61. Bucs Draft Says:

    Let’s look at the last Suoerbowl. Peyton Manning is a fantastic QB who couldn’t do anything against a hugh caliber D. Just because you have a great QB doesn’t mean anything you are going to win. Hell the Falcons had the same record and Matt Ryan is heads above anybody in this draft and half the NFL.

  62. Chef Paul Says:

    I dont think I could have coached up David. I know I’m not experienced enough. Unless all I had to do was say “Sick em, David!!”

    You might though. I will say, you are one of the smarter posters in here. And I see you have a high football IQ for a fan. I don’t. I’m just your typical uneducated fan.

  63. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    No one is saying a great QB guarantees a win, but you can just about guarantee that you won’t win one without at least an above average QB. We all know defense wins championships, but not by itself. There is a time for every team that they need to have an offense that can do good things. Why do we only have 1 Super Bowl, despite having 3 or 4 hall of famers on the field at one time? How many would we have won with a big time QB? My money is on several. If you guys are ok with bubbling up and getting a championship every 35 years, then let’s not worry about QB. Let’s get game managers and hope our defense can score 4 TD’s in one game.

  64. Couch Fan Says:

    Russell Wilson had a 123.1 rating. When did Glennon ever have that high of a rating?

    ———————-

    Glennon had a 120+ Rating game against seatlle and back to back 135+ rating games.

  65. Harry Says:

    @LUVMYBUCS:
    Ken Stabler? Jim Plunkett? Really? Dude, you are so showing your age, lol. Sad, but I am too as I remember them well. Heck, Stabler played on my Oilers back in the day.

    But, the rules have changed since Stabler’s days to the point that it is a completely different game. Lets go the past 8 years. Look up how many teams won a SB with game managers at QB. One? Two? No more than that.

  66. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @Hawaiian

    “I don’t want a follower to be the leader of this football team.”

    Do mean by their play or verbally?

  67. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Lol

  68. Tackleblockwin Says:

    I don’t care how good a QB is. If the D is poor, you have no chance. Joe, you should know this. If Johnny Football had an average D at A&M, that team would have been nearly unstoppable. And one more point. Historicaly, QB play has never been the Bucs advantage. But boy have we had some nice D players through our history. This has led to Tampa being a D town. And with Lovie in town now, don’t be shocked if we continue building a dominant D, and waiting to figure out the O latter. Yes, we need a good QB, but QB is not the only position we can improve in this draft.

  69. Couch Fan Says:

    So now rookies are suppose to go against there coaches and play perfect and win otherwise we need to get rid of them immediately. Lol, and you are calling other people stupid?

  70. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @Harry

    Lol, True-Game managers/System Quarterbacks. Have won plenty of superbowls-Joe Montana(G.O.A.T)-Troy Aikman-Tom Brady have the rings to prove it.

  71. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @Couch Fan,

    I never said he needed to play perfect. I expect mistakes. The greatest of QB’s makes tons of mistakes. But if our Qb doesn’t have enough fire in his belly to go out and help this team win, then he doesn’t belong. However, if you read well, you would see that I said I don’t believe this to be the case. He just doesn’t have the talent. Again, where are the teams banging on our doors for him? Funny how no one can answer that question. Why wasn’t he even given a chance to start for us this year? Are you going to state that you know more about football than Lovie and Licht? Do you watch the coach’s film?

    And yes, if you believe that Tavaris Jackson could have won a Super Bowl for Seattle, then you are stupid. Is that clear enough for you?

  72. RastaMon Says:

    Joe….Glennon…is not as bad as the “Glennon Lynch Mob”….make him out to be….you are setting yourself up for another decade of frustration…first Rachel…now… Johnny Man….”if you love someone set them free ”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-diB65scQU

  73. Couch Fan Says:

    Russell Wilson had a 123.1 rating. When did Glennon ever have that high of a rating? You guys are pathetically pulling stuff out of your arses, but you are making yourself look more and more stupid in the process.

    —————————————————–

    I dont see anything about Jackson in that statement. Though I do agree that anyone who says that is rather… uninformed.

  74. Harry Says:

    TO: Those who think Glennon’s “IT” was held back bc of Schiano…

    I get some of what you are saying, Schiano was bad, very bad, a control freak that had bad concepts, both on O and D. So, I can see your point about Schiano holding Glennon back – to a degree. But, one CANNOT HIDE the “IT” factor. All the great ones have “IT”. The “IT” factor includes a big competitive fire, a passion to win and a knowledge of how to get it done in the moment – the play at hand – sort of the Farve/Gunslinger mentality. You don’t control that, its in one’s DNA. Not even Schiano could control it if MG8 had “IT” – NO WAY. No matter what you think of him, Freeman had “IT”. Free was just lacking other things that held him back (like a good mental capacity).

    Glennon almost never shows this. Farve had so much of it, Holmgren could not control him. MG8 does NOT have “IT”.

  75. Chef Paul Says:

    “Though I do agree that anyone who says that is rather… uninformed.”

    LOL “… uninformed.” You are so polite, Couch.

  76. Couch Fan Says:

    And I dont see how you can expect any rookie to go against there coach. That is a sure way to get booted off the team. I understand the logic behind the Schiano philosophy of not trying to make plays. I seriously doubt it literally means don’t make plays but rather don’t force plays… thats how you make mistakes and turn the ball over… That is exactly what you want in a rookie QB. Don’t do to much.

  77. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @CouchFan,

    Look at the statement I was responding to. It was said that Tavaris Jackson, Glennon, and Kafka could have won for Seattle. That’s a stupid statement by any stretch of the imagination.

  78. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    A Great Offense just can’t beat -A Great Defense. It is what it is

  79. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    The grass is always greener….hindsight is 20-20….and….
    “You never know what’s under a horse’s tail until you lift it up”

    Meaning….we will probably not know how good Glennon might have been with a year or two on the bench under a veteran mentoring him and a coach that allowed him to make a mistake here and there.
    I’m OK with JF, Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Garoppolo, Murray or
    McCown & Glennon
    As a Buc Fan since the beginning, I’ve seen far worse and not a whole lot better.
    Lets get this over so we see what we hope is the magic again!!!

  80. RastaMon Says:

    Joe…I still have not gotten over the FACT..the Bucs could have had Tony Dorsett and Earl Campbell in the same backfield…….and I’ve been paying to sit in the stadium allt hese years…..shout out to Larwrence Dawsey….and Jimmy DuBois…two great..great Fl players in the NFL careers cut short @ the knees

  81. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @CouchFan,

    It’s one thing to not do too much when you are winning, or you have a great defense. I’ve got no problem with that. Problem is, we lost……. a lot. We typically would start out pretty good (usually due to a turnover and short field), but the offense would get dreadfully worse as the game wore on. If you are down by 2 TD’s and you are throwing 2 yard screen passes on third and 10 (consistently, not every now and then), then that’s not good. There comes a point where you have to take some chances when the game is on the line. Schiano wasn’t going to cut him – don’t even go there. So Schiano was going to cut him for throwing the ball down the field down 21 in the fourth quarter? Yeah right. He wouldn’t have benched Glennon for Joe Montana in his prime.

  82. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Joe Montana (G.O.A.T) Also the Greatest Game Manager/System Quarterback ever.

  83. delson Says:

    Jimmy garoppolo in the 3rd makes more sense than manziel at 7. If we are going to sit a qb for a year let alone a rookie to relearn the position and offense to adjust to the game lets make it a mid round pick. Not the impact player we need at 7. As a matter of fact trading up for watkins wouldnt be so bad. The falcons went n grabbed julio lets get watkins. A fast n powerful wr who can turn a short catch into a td. I’d put glennon otb if we could trade up n get watkins plus garoppolo later.The biggest questions tho are how far up do we need to trade and what is the price?

  84. Couch Fan Says:

    So you dont think Schiano would cut a player that completely disobeyed him? C’mon man. Of course he would. Glennon was just a 3rd round pick remember? He was by no means commited to Glennon if he showed to be disobedient… All we’ve been hearing is what a control freak Schiano was and he already got rid of a few players… Glennon would be no exception. And I agree about the offense being dreadful. I acknowledge that it has to be better and Glennon has to be better… but I also realize that there are many many variables that produced that 32nd ranked offense, it’s not just Glennon. I just think the kid deserves a little more time before we are desperate at the QB position.

  85. WalkdaPlank Says:

    Because the Pro Bowl mattered so much when talking about Brad Johnson. The guy was an average QB who had a good supporting cast like Russell Wilson. In that SB we saw our No.1 Bucs defense destroy the No.1 Raiders offense with Gannon and 2 HoF WR’s. In just this past SB we saw the same thing. The No.1 Seattle defense completely shut down one of the greatest QB’s to ever play the game in Peyton Manning who just came off a record breaking season in scoring.

    So no, IMO you do not NEED a great QB to win the Super Bowl. However, you WILL have to heavily compensate the lack of a good QB with a stout D and at the very least a good supporting offensive cast. Shaun King is a good example. He was barely average and the Bucs superb defense was able to carry him to the NFC Championship (despite what Joe would have you believe) but it wasn’t enough as King could not work around a good Rams defense. You don’t NEED an elite QB but having one makes it a lot easier.

    The same goes vice versa. Look at Aaron Rodgers and that atrocious Packers defense not too long ago. You have a great QB in Rodgers, a great supporting cast, but a bad defense and they still found ways to win.

    So by Joes logic, Johnny Mancrush must have “led” his team to defeat at the hands of Bama, LSU, and Mizzou as well as other games his freshmen year which is why A&M never won a championship. Yet A&M had a horrible defense that Johnny just couldn’t clean up after sometimes. But you know, it’s always the QB who leads teams, right?

    Face it, King was carried by a good D and Johnny was held back by a bad one.

    All in all, football is a team sport. You try to have a good everything. But if you don’t have something good on one side of the ball, you will have to make it to make up for it on the other.

  86. Couch Fan Says:

    Let me just ask you this. Do you think there is any QB in history of football, that could of played on the Bucs last year and had a winning season?… I dont.

  87. Tyler Says:

    Joe – the mocks have Bortles available… Let’s get your thoughts

  88. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    That’s not being directly disobedient. Being disobedient is refusing to run the play that was called. You’re a smart guy, you know better than that.

    Do I think there is any QB that could have had a winning season – hell yes! How many close games did we lose? That’s just silly. I do believe that Peyton Manning is 5 games better than Mike Glennon.

  89. bornandRAYSed Says:

    Can someone tell me if Glennon led the 30th ranked offense for the weeks he was under center, or does that include Freeman’s horrific start?

  90. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    And let me make one thing clear – he doesn’t DESERVE a damn thing. Who the hell is he to deserve more time? You earn an opportunity, it’s not given to you. Being the QB of the 32nd ranked offense doesn’t give you a right to anything. Aside from Vincent Jackson, no one on our offense last year “deserves” to be on the team. When you are last, changes need to be made.

  91. Couch Fan Says:

    No way Manning could win with a Schiano defense and a Schiano offense with only V-Jax, a bad 0-line, 3rd and 4th string RBs and a rookie Wr converted to TE? you have more faith than I do. I’d give him maybe 2 wins at most and thats if he could deal with Schiano.

    @Born

    That includes Freeman’s 3 games.

  92. Couch Fan Says:

    It’s ok Hawaaian we can agree to disagree and when Glennon is starting this year we can look back and laugh at all this.

  93. BucFan20 Says:

    How hard is it for anyone to figure out why we had bad 3rd and 4th quarters.
    Let’s see. When you keep doing the same things with no adjustments what happens? Keep giving them the same looks and they know what’s coming. Then there was our great defense that loved to give up 27 to 31 points a game. That’s hell for any QB to over come . So now every game we played, in the first half we could do well. But! With all teams knowing our teams history after a few games, they knew we never changed in the second half. What did you expect to happen?

    Ok. That’s my two cents. Joe did just what he wanted to. Got the QB disagreements off and running again! And we all fell for it. lol

  94. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    When exactly did Manning ever have a losing season, besides on that awful team his rookie year (and yes, they were much more awful than we were)? In fact, when did he ever not get double digit wins in a season. And he would love to have a middle of the pack defense, because he sure didn’t have one too often in Indy.

  95. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @CouchFan,

    Gotta admire your allegiance, lol.

  96. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Granted Payton’s (1-2 in the Superbowl), but he’s also had eight one-and-done postseason trips

  97. Couch Fan Says:

    Lol, I am very loyal for all Buc players until they prove they arent worthy of it. I refuse to give up on our players after only 13 games.

  98. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Glennon’s comparable Matt Ryan is 1-4 (0.200). IMO give Glennon a more than serviceable offensive line+Dominate defense-And We should be able to compete for the playoffs every year.

  99. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    *Matt Ryan’s Career Postseason Record 1-4 (0.200)

  100. kevin Says:

    If manning was so good his rookie year he would have done exactly what you say glennon should have done which is put the team on his back and win . Your gonna judge him entirely off of his rookie season being drafted and coached by a man that is against making plays. He was completly hand cuffed. Not sayin he IS the next tom brady but you dont know until you see how he comes in for his second season under a good offense. He may be a great qb and if he is still on the roster come opening day than that means they see something in him.

  101. kevin Says:

    Look what happened to nick foles when a good offense came into town but the year before he was a tall lanky backup rated qb. I dont think many people would bitch about having foles as theyre qb today. Good coaches get the most out of theyre players. Good offenses that are not predictable bring out the most of the players. You can tell Glennon is Driven and wants to win the job bad. Just his attitude alone is enough to justify tuning out the critics and giving him a second look

  102. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @kevin

    Well said. I’m pulling for the kid

    GO BUCS!

  103. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    So to recap, you are willing to put the future of the franchise on the back of Mike Glennon because: 1. he had little help 2. Matt Ryan has a poor playoff record 3. Glennon is “driven” 4. Nick Foles was successful last year 5. He was told to not be good by Schiano.

    Yeah, I’m actually not willing to put this revamped, win now roster in the hands of a QB that hasn’t done jack sh!t to deserve it. Maybe if he had one 300 yard game, or one come from behind win, but nada. Maybe if I could remember one play he made where I said to myself “damn!!!”. But again, the decision has been made, he’s not going to start. He’ll be lucky to be on the team, and we aren’t getting a first rounder for him in a trade (probably 4th rounder at best). I guess all you supporters are just so much better at talent evaluation and hypotheticals. You should seriously all apply to be a GM, or at least a scout.

  104. Harry Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc Says:
    “…CouchFan,… Gotta admire your allegiance, lol.”

    Couch Fan is a good guy Hawaiian, at least since he finished his first year of therapy. Just a little (not a lot) MG8 misguided… LOL

  105. BamBamBuc Says:

    Hawaiian – thank you for making this read through the comment section of this post an enjoyable one. Don’t let the idiocracy bring you down though, we need a voice of reason that can hold up to the drowning screams of hope without proper insight. A voice that can be heard above that crowd to bring rational thought and insight. Every now and then, I’m right there with you, but today, I’m glad I can read someone else speaking sensibly.

  106. Macabee Says:

    You guys take a break and pay homage to the next ring of honor member – Derrick Brooks. Rick Stroud just leaked the news! 5,4,3,2,1 ….Joe should have it up any minute now!

  107. Couch Fan Says:

    Lol Hey if we draft a QB in the 1st I’ll be buying his jersey. Especially if its Manziel. If not, I hope you realize MG8 will be around for a long time.

  108. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @CouchFan,

    Actually, I have a funny feeling we are going to draft a QB with our second or third pick. Don’t think Manziel makes it to 7. I can’t get that comment out of my mind that Licht made a while back, stating that he saw a franchise Qb in this draft, but not necessarily in the first. I think Garopolo is a huge possibility, or maybe even Teddy if he somehow slips to the second round (which seems unimaginable to me, but who knows). No matter when we draft a QB, if we do draft one, you’re going to have to get rid of your Mike Glennon jersey. In Glennon’s defense, from what I’ve read about Tedford, Glennon is a terrible fit for his offense, as he has a very slow release. So perhaps Glennon would be a better fit on a different team.

  109. Harry Says:

    @Coach,
    If L&L keep MG8 around next year I will be just as hopeful as if it were Manziel. It would mean to me that Lovie sees something in lanky Glennon that my dumb a$$ is missing. I will support him to the fullest.

    Btw, how is your therapy doing? Have you quit idolizing really tall gangly QBs yet? lol

  110. Harry Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc Says:
    “…So perhaps Glennon would be a better fit on a different team…”

    Like an NBA team? AFL? Sorry, cheap shot, couldn’t help it. lol

  111. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Buc1987 Says
    “All you need is a game manager (Br-ad Johnson) and a dominant defense. I think Wilson and Kap are game managers too.”

    The Seahawks scored an average of 24 points per game, the equivelant of 3TDs, 3 x-tra points and a field goal, throughout the regular season.

    If the Bucs scored that much every week we would likely win the division.

    That’s not game management…thats commanding.

  112. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc

    I agree with you mostly. That said one thing you always say drives me absolutely bonkers…

    “No one is saying…”

    I don’t think you even realize how often you say that, lol. The thing is, it is probably wrong. There is no way you can know that “no one” has said what follows.

    You would be better sered to say “I’m not saying…”

    I do agree completely with you on Glennon.

  113. Couch Fan Says:

    Ha! I dont have a Glennon Jersey though that could change soon depending on the draft. I will be getting someones jersey though for sure. At this point though I dont really care who we draft anymore as long as whoever it is helps us win this year.

    @Harry

    Its Couch Lol, not coach. And no. Sadly, I am still idolizing gumby type QBs. Winnin’ with Glennon!!

  114. Bucs Draft Says:

    Chucky liked Glennon… http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lGfQQPYx3dQ

  115. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc

    Also, I hope you are wrong about the Bucs drafting the QB in the 2nd or 3rd round, mainly because I don’t think Manziel, Bridgewater, Bortles or Carr will still be on the board when we pick in the second. I want Carr, so I would rather reach for him at 7.

    After taking several good looks at the rest of the QBs I don’t believe any of the others are that good.

  116. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    I also never felt Bridgewater was any good.

  117. Burg Says:

    Bow down to Bortles…

    Take a deep breathe and realize that Johnny can’t carry his jock

  118. Bucs Draft Says:

    I’ll say this as well. Our defense lost us more games than our offense did. How many penalties and let them kick a FG to win the game?

  119. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Bucs Draft Says
    “Chucky liked Glennon…”

    Did you even watch the video you linked to?

    Gruden himself said that the Glennon type of quarterback is being forced out of the NFL like the golf carts replaced caddys on the golf course.

    And, ironically, Glennon hasn’t looked anything like that in the NFL. He was a better college player.

    “That ain’t no Cam Newton” Gruden quoted. Cam is, ironically, the third best QB in our division. So if Glennon can’t be better than 3rd best, what is he? The worse QB in our division.

    You just made the naysayers case.

  120. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    None of the QBs in this draft are NFL starting quality…yet. Each will require patience.

    I like Carr because I think back to the first game of 2013 for the Bucs. Jossh Freeman had headset trouble and could not overcome it.

    Now watch the Grudeen QB camp with Carr. That is enough to show you how smart Carr is. Watch him call and change plays using hand signals. Watch him give fake hand signals to confuse the defense. Watch his ball placement on covered WRs. Just watch.

    Then go back and watch some of his college games…the best and the worst. Watch the highlights of opposing defenses and see how he handles them.

    If you do, you will learn that he is the best QB in this draft. I will be surprised if he falls to 7 because GMs and Coaches have done even better research.

  121. Bucfan#37 Says:

    The article says the Bucs need a “no less than average” QB, then states “a decent QB”, followed by “need a QB to be elite”. So Glennon does’nt meet any of these descriptions? I guess a good or solid backup is lower than those criteria. Joe, I hope you don’t bust a vein with that anger towards Glennon possibly making the final roster. I also think King stunk.

    Yes, you’d need some elite play down the stretch (at least) from that decent QB. –Joe

  122. Nybucsfan Says:

    I’m with joe. You need a good QB the D can’t win every game. Glennon with his 219 passing yards a game suck

  123. IdahoBucsfan Says:

    Got to get your “hits” huh? only way you seem to be able to do it is by attacking our Great young QB. Your heart is about to be broken joe. Mike Glennon will be our starter by the end of the year, and will do a Great job! GO bucs and Mike Glennon!

  124. Yar Says:

    Totally agree Joe, too bad there isn’t one in this draft.

  125. Nybucsfan Says:

    How many teams with a top tier QB dint make the playoffs

  126. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @Hawaiian

    Your a decent debater, I’ll give you that. Even more important, is that your a passionate BUCS fans. But of course-just like the rest of us your opinion has been wrong plenty of times before (As us all). Its not like were comparing Adrian Peterson to Trent Richardson..LMAO. But hey its Friday BUCIT

  127. Bucfan#37 Says:

    My last post a few minutes ago looks like it was rejected, a no show. I’ll also remain on Glennon’s bandwagon and anticipate his upcoming season here in Tampa or elsewhere.

  128. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @BuccaneerBonzai

    Exactly

  129. Nybucsfan Says:

    What the hell is wrong with people Glennon passed for 219 a game and the last 2 out of 3 games was under 200 that suck he sucks what are you people watching.

  130. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @IdahoBucsfan

    Lol , yep

  131. Harry Says:

    @Bucs Draft Says:
    “..I’ll say this as well. Our defense lost us more games than our offense did…”

    I know better than to comment on things such as this, but I can’t help it. Can you explain to me how it was the Bucs 16th ranked defense’s fault that we lost games, instead of our 32nd ranked offense that was lead by our 32nd ranked passing offense???

  132. Bucky1 Says:

    Well the Glennon Lynch Mob is at it again. Now they are starting to turn on Lovey just ,like they did on Schiano. Right Steve (Hawaiian)? Don’t get your way soon enough and you bitch and moan and complain. What you going to do if L&L does not draft a quarterback? Hit them with your golf club or try to run their asses out of town like you brag about you doing to Schiano. Most of us on this blog will be alright with who is drafted and in on the final 53. Joe & steve will you pledge to support whoever Lovey puts in at quarterback? If you can’t then we know your not really Buc Fans.

  133. gatrbuc17 Says:

    JOE………..It is official. You are an Idiot. Albeit an entertaining Idiot with inside information (no matter how you skew it) so I will continue to read because as a Bucs Fan since 76 I need info. You have almost completely lost my respect for you as a journalist though.

  134. Harry Says:

    @Nybucsfan Says:
    “…What the hell is wrong with people Glennon passed for 219 a game and the last 2 out of 3 games was under 200 that suck he sucks what are you people watching.”

    It is a common malady with a certain small segment of the Tampa population that I believe is the result of drinking a special Kool-Aid. The symptoms are frequent use of blame shifting and severe delusional episodes. Often the ppl affected with this problem hallucinate in terms of blaming every problem their QB has on the 1) controlling coach, 2) bad offensive schemes, 3) bad defensive schemes, 4) weak O-line, 5) poor quality WRs, 6) earth tremors in the Tampa area, 7) potential sink holes under RJ stadium, 8) being too tall, 9) MRSA, 10) the pressure of living up to the comparisons to Tom B_rady, 11) that he will never be asked to pose like M. Jackson… There are more, an endless supply. Its a dreadful problem for these poor ppl.

  135. Bucs Draft Says:

    @Harry, I see that you didn’t post the rest of my comment about the bad penalties and kicked FG. Our defense is the reason we lost 3-4 games when they were close. All they had to do was stop them for 2 mins and they couldn’t. They drove the ball down and just when we thought we would stop them and take the game we got a stupid penalty that gave the opposing team FG position. What happened then? The opposing team kicked the FG and we lost. Sure you can say well if we would have scored more points we wouldn’t have had to worry about that. Sorry, but the Defense with their stupid penalties and the inability to close out the games was the reason we lost those games.

  136. Bucs Draft Says:

    BuccaneerBonzai,

    Chucky also said that he had a great arm and only a handful of QBs on the planet that could throw like he did. He also liked that he was able to make throws when being rushed. Glennon said that he doesn’t run the ball. They showed one run that he did and Glennon said that was the one run all season.

    Also, your comment that Cam is the 3rd best is wrong in my opinion. I think he is 2nd. Matt Ryan is 3rd.

  137. Couch Fan Says:

    Or we dont perceive to know it all and refuse to write a player off 13 games into his career and then try to label everyone else as “kool-aide” drinkers if they dont agree with our opinion Lol.

  138. Aaron Says:

    Jumping in – I agree that Glennon didnt get much help last year, but the eye test just doesn’t sell me on him either.

    We now have a new coach, staff and GM and one of the first things we do is sign an aging veteran with little starting success. We all have an opinion and it make it fun to discuss in May, but I think its funny how passionate fans get about “player evaluation” – how are we qualified to question the Bucs staff on these topics?

  139. Harry Says:

    My comment, which posted, also got deleted… very annoying.

  140. Harry Says:

    @Couch
    you prefer cherry or strawberry flavored, lol

  141. Hawaiian Buc Says:

    @LUVMYBUCS,

    Thanks, lol. And yes, I’ve been wrong a ton. I would be a terrible GM. I may not be good at saying who is great (ahem, Richardson), but I’m usually pretty good on who’s not good. I don’t think that’s a special trait by any means, as it’s much easier to recognize who doesn’t have it over who does have it. For the life of me, I don’t see it in Glennon. I’m sure most think I can’t stand the guy, but nothing could be further from the truth. As a really bad small college basketball player, I can relate to him, so of course I cheer for him. I was the lanky white guy with very little natural talent, and I am the guy who worked twice as hard as everyone else. But guess what, I warmed the bench. I didn’t have it, no matter what. Glennon is in the same boat. I would love nothing more than for him to be the next great NFL QB, but I feel very confident it’s not going to happen.

  142. Couch Fan Says:

    Im a watermelon type of guy.

  143. Harry Says:

    @Bucs Draft Says:
    “…Harry, I see that you didn’t post the rest of my comment about the bad penalties and kicked FG. Our defense is the reason we lost 3-4 games when they were close. All they had to do was stop them for 2 mins and they couldn’t. They drove the ball down and just when we thought we would stop them and take the game we got a stupid penalty that gave the opposing team FG position…”

    Ok, I don’t quote someone’s entire entry if it is not relevant to what I have to say, like now. I don’t believe one play, or one call, or one series of downs determines the outcome of a game. There are over 100 plays on offense and defense that decide the outcome. If a game is close, one play can be a tipping point, but not the reason we won or lost – and in our case, maybe the reason we were in the game was only bc of our reasonably good D. Bc last years D was ranked #16 and the O was ranked #32, I could make a much more valid argument that if it weren’t for the D being respectable, we might have lost all of our games.

  144. Thomas Says:

    I actually like Glennon, but there were times where his arm just wasn’t accurate for mid to deep passes. I literally only remember one time where he hit the reciever in stride all season on a long ball.

    If he can become more accurate in that regard and they can get a o-line that can keep defenses off of him for a bit- both of thsoe things- then I think he could be the guy here. However, he is just too tall and lanky- at some point if he doesnt add a lot of muscle to his frame, someone;s going to hit him and bend him in ways the human body doesnt want to bend… and that;ll be the last we see of him for the year.

    Honestly, if the O-line can get it together we should be better than last year even if we keep Glennon- which I doubt very much will happen. Instead, imo he will be traded either during the draft or right before it.

    Murray? Shaw? Garappolo? Headed this way. The more I think about it, if there;s a stud O-lineman there they may just pull the trigger at 7.

    I HOPE they can trade back a few spots and get more picks but thats what most teams are saying. i think as far as picks go we are basically screwed in this deep draft. But we will see.

  145. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    @Hawaiian Buc

    Lol, Its all good brotha

  146. tmaxcon Says:

    I believe Glennon”s brothers radio show was renewed with an extension. That is good news for 8. Its a solid fall back move for the next Tom Brady

    It’s a great Cinderella story when a journeyman QB wins a Superbowl but that scenario only plays out once in a blue moon. NOT CONSISTENTLY! Do you want your team to be consistant or loyal to a mediocore QB with zero athleticism. Raise the standards folks… Bucs have never had a great QB. Dont even mention Young, he blew A$$ in Tampa and stop with the same glennon excuses what he had around him. It’s black and white; its a Win or it’s a LOSS. Freeman actually possessed the most physical talent the bucs have had, with that said he also had the brain of a mental midget.

    A great QB can also make a great Defense LEGENDARY

    Johnny & 7

    It’s time to raise the standards and expectations for the Offense in Tampa. Defense wins championships but offenses PULL….

  147. Harry Says:

    @Couch: Watermelon Kool-Aid it is!

  148. Bucky1 Says:

    Well! The old saying is certainly true today,”you can’t fix stupid”. Diehard Glennon haters will skew facts to suet them against Glennon and what they accuse him of they defended Freemon with the same issues. Anyone remember, “He’s only 24? He’s just a rooky? He’s only in his third year? ” I just want Hawaiian to say on his radio program that he will support Glennon if Lovey keeps him and put’s him in the game.

  149. Joe Says:

    REPLY RANT #2: Are you telling us Joe that you would rather have Geno Smith at QB? If so, I think you have already reached your afternoon limit and need to call a cab for a ride home!

    LOL Hey, Geno got more done with less. You do the math.

  150. Joe Says:

    Joe – the mocks have Bortles available… Let’s get your thoughts

    Joe is so sick of mock drafts, he’s even willing to listen to arguments about putting limits on the First Amendment. And if you knew how much Joe is a First Amendment absolutist, then you would understand how sick he is of mock drafts and this mock draft industrial complex.

  151. stratobuc Says:

    Glennon reminds me a lot of a guy that used to play here. They called him a “journeyman”. Somehow, he managed to get the job done and he won a championship. Give Glennon a fighting chance.

  152. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    I’m not a huge Glennon supporter because I belive a NFL QB needs mobility to extend plays and that’s not part of his package…..however.

    He was a rookie.
    He had little time to prepare.
    He was a 3rd round pick
    He had a HC that struck fear re turnovers
    He had a weak Oline
    He had injuries to WR/RB
    He had a OC that called predictable plays Run, Run Pass

    I’m not sure many would have done any better than Glennon under those circumstances. I’d like to see us keep him even if we have to carry 3 QBs because I do think he is at least a very good backup….and is cheap.

  153. bucrightoff Says:

    Joe Says:
    May 3rd, 2014 at 1:23 am

    REPLY RANT #2: Are you telling us Joe that you would rather have Geno Smith at QB? If so, I think you have already reached your afternoon limit and need to call a cab for a ride home!

    LOL Hey, Geno got more done with less. You do the math.
    ________________________________________________________

    Uhh Joe? The Jets go to the playoffs last year with Glennon as QB. They almost did with Geno. They definitely win 1 more game with Glennon as QB.

  154. Mumbles Says:

    Will know the answer in 5 days!

  155. JoeMan(Ziel)CrushFan Says:

    You people man, the ones that talk about these elite QBs like they were elite as rookies (on in some cases their first year starting). Tom freaking Brady was not elite Tom Brady his first year. Brady threw for a whopping 189 yards a game in his first season as a starter in the games he started. He threw for 145 yards in the Superbowl.

    Yeah I know, he won the Superbowl….in thanks to his defense’s 3 forced turnovers. Brady use his elite 2nd year talents to will the Pats to 6 total points in the second half oh wait, 3 of those were in part to an int that started the pats at the rams 30. This wasn’t the greatest show on turf because of their defense mind you. In one full game that year against the Dolphins he threw for 86 yards.

    Tom Brady was a game manager with an excellent defense who won a Superbowl and he just happens to have one of the greatest coaches of all time. Glennon had a college coach with a questionable scheme (being friendly there) and a ton of injuries. Brady became elite in the long run but it took time.

    I’m not saying Glennon is the answer and I will be fine with L&L drafting a guy but damn, people keep acting like Glennon should be Brady/Manning/Brees of today as a rookie. No offense to these guys but the majority of elite QBs to ever play sucked as young players. Some had good teams around them to look less sucky but they still sucked. Many of them wouldn’t even had been considered quality backups after their first years lol.

  156. buc4lyfe Says:

    Glennon isn’t good enough to be named in the same sentence as Nick foles…..he’s a dink and dunk quarterback who throws accurate checkdowns….no one would accuse Greg olsen of being a play calling guru but even washed up Freeman had a bunch of comeback victories which are games won on the arm of the quarterback. Glennon gets worse in second half of games. He’s a nobody until he gets one comeback win and thank the football gods because doesn’t seem like he’ll do it here…no one but misguided fans who are used to losing wants to gives this guy in game practice try and develop into Nick foles…lol captain checkdown is gone if you like him so much follow him out of town. I’d take mccown over him any day because I’m all for throwing passes that travel more than 10 yards in the air

  157. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    Everybody is entitled to their opinion but some of the logic back them up is a bit specious.

    Let’s see. Lovie won how many Superbowls with the mediocre Grossman? 0
    Lovie got to how many SB’s with Grossman? 1

    Harbaugh has won how many SBs with Kaepernik? 0
    Harbaugh has gotten to how many SB’s with K? 1

    Brad Johnson was the “all pro” QB who led the Bucs to the SB title. Are his physical skills that much more outstanding than McCown’s? His resume was certainly better coming from Minnesota but did Brad have a cannon for an arm? Was he mobile or athletic?

    Nobody believes we can get to the SB without a good Q.B.? The questions swirl around how good and where do you find them. A high round in the draft?

    How about the SB Q.B.s this year? Wilson a 3 rounder. Peyton an FA. Brady 6th round…Favre a Dixie Chicks castoff….all I am saying is there are waaaay more opportunities to get a QB good enough to win an SB without a first round draft choice. Where did New Orleans get Brees? The draft?

  158. Nybucsfan Says:

    I could throw for 200 yard a game. You have VJ he wins jump balls how teams have a wideout like him

  159. Nybucsfan Says:

    How many teams have a wideout like him

  160. Broy3434 Says:

    Bucky- it’s really ironic reading you say “you can’t fix stupid” talking about us Glennon “haters” (I call it being a realist and a diehard fan) and then proceed to call Glennon a “ROOKY”

    Just sayin. And don’t say it was autocorrect

  161. Broy34 Says:

    This has gotten to the point where we should stop entertaining the Glennon mob. There’s a reason nobody has traded for him and theres a reason the Bucs brought McCown and many rookie QBS in the building. You guys are wrong. It’s rly that simple. Don’t any of you dare compare Mike Glennon to Tom Brady. The offensive firepower was nonexistent arothe moment Tom Brady stepped on to the field the first time. And the moment he did you saw flashes. I saw Glennon flash a look at Vjack as he was open downfield only to check down. That’s the “flash” I saw. Glennon will not start another Bucs game so get it out of your head and stop arguing with the people on here who are in the norm in knowing football. Ya I liked Glennon coming into this year but for being so smart you know he won’t improve in that area. That’s usually what ruins rookie qbs. THE BUCS WILL BE DRAFTING A QB AND GLENNON WONT START AGAIN IN TAMPA. SCHIANO IS MORE LIKELY TO BE AN NFL COACH AGAIN.

    and BucLyfe don’t call Joe a complete idiot and say you only come on here because you cant get info of this quality elsewhere but then say hes lost all credibility as a writer…wow are you a moron

  162. Broy3434 Says:

    buc lyfe you’re the idiot. U called joe an idiot and said he has no credibility as a reporter yet u said you can’t get this quality Bucs info elsewhere

  163. JohnnyNo Says:

    @bro3434 sounds like you are a better English teacher than football analyst. Are do you just get off being mean? Lot of people make spelling errors on this site including the Joe’s some times. Sorry if you are perfect.

  164. BoJim Says:

    No one’s comparing Glennen to Brady. Stop making things up.

 
 

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