Vick Is In The “13″ To “16″ Range

February 10th, 2014

Joe, or anyone else, can’t objectively judge the value of adding Michael Vick to the Buccaneers without knowing how much money it will take to land Vick.

Vick sounds darn good at $3 million a season plus incentives (that’s about what Josh Freeman got from Minnesota) but not so great at $6 million or $7 million a year.

Of course, market forces will set Vick’s price, but so will his Xs and Os value. NFL.com columnist Judy Battista talked to various team suits and shared perceptions of Vick around the league.

Here’s one snippet:

One NFL personnel executive said teams undoubtedly will rate Vick the best of a middling quarterback free-agent market — one likely to include Matt Schaub, Matt Cassel and Mark Sanchez — and the exec said he would rate him as a mid-tier starting quarterback, somewhere between 13 and 16. In a league with 32 teams, that’s better than half.

Forget about the entire NFL, is Michael Vick better than half the starting quarterbacks in the NFC? Joe can’t go that far. But Vick is better than Mike Glennon.

And that brings Joe back to Vick’s value. What’s it going to be worth to Lovie Smith and Jason Licht to upgrade the quarterback position versus using the money — or draft pick(s) — on another position?

106 Responses to “Vick Is In The “13″ To “16″ Range”

  1. Buc Fan #237 Says:

    To me Matt Cassel would be the best NFL veteran backup to Glennon.

    Similar to the GMC article talking to hating GMC unfairly, the same can be said about Glennon. Glennon was a ROOKIE last year. A ROOKIE. Let’s keep that in perspective when judging Glennon. Expecting more out of a rookie is unrealistic.

    When Lovie claims that Glennon will be the starter, then all Buc fans will need to trust the head coach’s decision to go with Mike Glennon as the starter.

  2. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    QB Shaun Hill (Detroit) sounds like a bargain

  3. DWE Says:

    I hope we do not take Vick. He is too old and too injury prone. he still has serious character issues that i will never get over.

  4. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    PER: BSPN

    • Free agent to be: Shaun Hill

    • Position: Quarterback

    • Age: 34

    • Years in the league: 12

    What he made last season: $3,250,000 (cap number); $2,750,000 (cash value).

    What he did last season: Hill served as Matthew Stafford’s primary backup last season and because Stafford stayed healthy, Hill barely played. He took two snaps at the end of Detroit’s blowout win over Green Bay, kneeling twice. He has played in 34 career games, completing 591 of 954 passes for 6,381 yards, 41 touchdowns and 23 interceptions. His most extensive action came in his first year in Detroit, when he played in 11 games due to injuries to Stafford.

    His potential market value: Even though he played no snaps of significance last season, Hill is considered one of the top veteran backups in the league.

  5. Bucnjim Says:

    What is the deal with Matt Schaub? Take away last year and his stats are pretty impressive. Is he still under contract with the Texans? This is one QB that may thrive in a new environment. I’m not sure if Michael Vick is the answer!

  6. MTM Says:

    Who is Glennon better than at this time? Vick at the right price would be a huge upgrade.

  7. Snook Says:

    “What is the deal with Matt Schaub? Take away last year and his stats are pretty impressive. Is he still under contract with the Texans? ”

    —————-

    Not sure. He’s under contract with the Texans but his hefty salary will most definitely get him cut.

    I don’t quite understand why so many people discounted him. He had a bad season in 2013 but Freeman had 2 or 3 bad season. People loved him.

  8. Touchdown Gus Says:

    I honestly think if we brought Vick in, Glennon would flat out beat him for the starting position. Calling it

  9. Architek Says:

    No sloppy seconds – draft a qb or go for Vick!

  10. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Vick isn’t worth the picketers. And there will be picketers against that scumbag.

  11. Theodore Says:

    Lovie Smith doesn’t value the QB position so I’m not sure why anyone thinks he will spend a top draft pick on one, at least not a first round pick.

    That’s why he hired a QB guru as OC. Top QB talents don’t need QB gurus.

  12. flmike...hates Johnny Football Says:

    He lost his job to Nick-effing-Foles, a slightly more athletic version of Glennon.

  13. Snook Says:

    He lost his job to Nick-effing-Foles, a slightly more athletic version of Glennon.

    —————–

    That Nick Foles guy went 8-2. Made the Pro Bowl. Threw for nearly 3000 yards with a 64% completion percentage. 27 TDs, 2 INTs and a 119.2 passer rating. He’s got a lot more going than Glennon other than his athleticism.

  14. Bannor Says:

    Glennon is probably going to be replaced by whoever they bring in. Ron Mexico is a short term solution but he can win you some games. I doubt he can stay healthy to start all 16 games so the Glennon mob will get to cheer for their boy as he racks up a few 150 yard games and the TE will get a workout around the line of scrimmage with all those dump offs.

  15. BigMacAttack Says:

    Vick fought dogs, so what, they’ve been doing that Sh!t forever. Just because someone has a different view or culture doesn’t make them a bad character. The drunk idiot in Dallas got probation for killing his best friend in a wreck while Vick went to prison for dog fights. I’m so sick of clowns judging Mike Vick for something that shouldn’t have been a crime, which btw he did his time for anyway. I just want to win and if the Bucs think Vick is the guy, bring it on. Liberal Tears, wah, wah, wah, I’ll use them to clean my guns. What a bunch of butthurt babies.

  16. Joe D VA Says:

    @DWE

    What character issues does Vick have?

  17. LVD54 fan Says:

    Joe, no disrespect but lets be honest, you think every QB is better than Mike Glennon. I think if you were to choose from Garbage Brady Quinn and Glennon, you would get Quinn. Vick not a good fit on our team. Plus Glennon and Vick have way different playing styles.

  18. Joe D VA Says:

    @Oil Derrick Brooks

    Why do you find it appropriate to call Vick a scumbag? I’m just curious.

  19. Orca Says:

    BMA, you’re kind of an a55. Torturing and killing dogs shouldn’t be a crime?

  20. Joe Says:

    Joe, no disrespect but lets be honest, you think every QB is better than Mike Glennon. I think if you were to choose from Garbage Brady Quinn and Glennon, you would get Quinn.

    Not so.

  21. Joe D VA Says:

    I hear ya @BigMacAttack. I’m not saying dog fighting should be an olympic sport or any sh!t like that, but it’s not like he ran a child prostitution ring, or is a serial killer. I love dogs, but not more than I love people.

  22. bigpoppabuc Says:

    I agree touchdown Gus…. Vick is just highly inconsistent, and too old to depend in his legs anymore. Glennon is better than Vick at this point and has a higher ceiling. Joe is just obsessed with mobile QBs, as are most on this site. I just don’t get it. Build around Glennon. He has the brains, arm and leadership qualities to take us to the promise land.

    Joe’s not obsessed with mobile QBs. Joe likes QBs that can put points on the board in the second half and don’t lead the NFL’s worst offense.–Joe

  23. BigMacAttack Says:

    No Orca, you’re wrong, I’m a full blown a55. Thanks for the compliment. I love dogs just like the people that buy a puppy, hate the way it misbehaves and then dump it on the side of the road, but I don’t do that. Pits were bread to hunt and fight and if several hundred are fought of the thousands born and killed by other methods each year, so what. I’m sure he only killed the severely injured ones or those that could no longer perform. it’s called thinning the heard, something that should be done with society in general.

  24. BigMacAttack Says:

    And I’m not saying Vick is a great QB because I’m not qualified to say so, but I think Big Ben the r_pist is a much worse character than Vick, along with many other Women abusers in the NFL.

  25. Bobby M Says:

    Vick is counter to Lovies ball control philosophy, he’s inaccurate,turnover prone and constantly injured. He’s also not a great “game manager” and a lefty which the Bucs are heavily invested on the left side of the line. Schaubb or Cassell make much more sense. Only upside to Vick is ticket sales and jerseys

  26. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    Buc Fan #237 Says
    “To me Matt Cassel would be the best NFL veteran backup to Glennon.”

    You know, I almost agree with you. But Schaub has more success and a change of scenery helped Brad Johnson win a SB. Maybe that’s all Schaub needs.

    Although, if Sanchez comes available I would rather take him as a backup. At least he has deep playoff exp.

  27. WinterSpringsBucsFan Says:

    What does Glennon have to do, punch out a reporter ala Dirty Dan Pastoreeni before he gets an ounce of credit? I like Glennon and I hope he does well. There is always a need for a good quality back up. I like Schaub to come in here and compete against Glennon. He was impressive in previous seasons and could rebound nicely in Tampa.

  28. Mr. Patrick Says:

    With the Bucs starting so many things fresh with Lovie and all of the expectations and excitement with the fan base, I couldn’t see them making a controversial move like signing Vick. If you want the attention then you sign Vick and Tebow, draft Michael Sam, then call the people from Hard Knocks

  29. Patrick in VA Says:

    @BMA – I feel like you’d do well to temper your delivery a bit. Some of the stuff you say is reasonable, albeit distasteful to some, and I actually agree to a point but you’re trying to hammer home some already touchy subjects with an aggressive approach and that’s not going to win over the hearts and minds. Granted, that may not be your objective but I think we all come here and comment because we are delusional enough to think that we have thoughts worth hearing.

  30. Jonny 2.3 Says:

    When we walk we kill thousands of lives beneath our shoes. We kill for food, we kill for fun in the form of hunting. This guy was having a different kind of fun with some stupid animals. He paid his price by going to the jail and appears remorseful. Why do so many still bring up that point I do not understand. If we open up your lives I am sure your kind will turn out to be the biggest hypocrites there are.

    Good post BMA.

  31. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    My reasons for not wanting him here have nothing to do with dogs. I agree he paid for his crimes.

    My problem is that for years he was on a rival divisional team and was the media’s darling…and he did not deserve it. Even the refs were on his side at the time.

    I’m not going to ANY games if the Bucs sign Vick. I don’t hate him as a person, but I sure as heck hate him as a player.

  32. ROBERT6 Says:

    tell em bigmac. hell I would take him over a drunk going through wendys naked

  33. Joe D VA Says:

    I like Matt Schaub but after the 4 straight weeks of at least one pick 6I’d pass on him. I don’t really see what he could bring to the team that Glennon can’t do. Mike Vick would push Glennon more because he’s capable of making smart plays and he’s a threat on the ground. You can talk bad about Vick all you want but he’s never had a season as bad as the one Schaub just had. Plus it’s not like Vick lost his job in Philly. He got hurt and Foles took advantage of the opportunity. Foles won his job. Schaub actually was given chances to bounce back, but never delivered.

  34. BuccaneerBonzai Says:

    MTM Says
    “Who is Glennon better than at this time?”

    Shaun King.

  35. Harry Says:

    Well Joe, as you pointed out to me a couple of days ago, that would put the Bucs along the lines of having a QB similar in talent of Jeff Garcia (“slightly above average”), who took us to the playoffs. And I would argue this current team is slightly better, but at the very least equal to, what Garcia had.

    Not sure you could say this team is better. Not proven yet. In 2007, Garcia had a top-10 defense and an effective running game.–Joe

  36. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Sociopaths hang, electrocute, and drown dogs with their bare hands. I don’t care how much prison time you serve, that’s never fixed in your brain.

    He’s a scumbag. His brother is a scumbag.

    and you think it’s ok, then I likely think YOU are a scumbag too.

    Even if he were a worthwhile player, it’s not ok. In Vick’s case, he sucks.

  37. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    ” it’s called thinning the heard, something that should be done with society in general.”

    What a piece of sh you are. I hope you are thinned out very soon.

  38. ROBERT6 Says:

    ODB…..that’s your paradigm.

    if a person were raised for that to be the norm, who are you to judge?

    I don’t hunt, kill animals etc, but hey…you know how many hunters there are getting there kicks killing animals? may as well hate them t. for that mate go all vegetarian if it bothers you that much, because them chickens and cows don’t grow on trees.

  39. Harry Says:

    Personally, I think I would prefer Cassel. I am not going to argue about which is the better QB, nor which one likes dogs better. But when was the last time Vick finished a full season?

    Further, Cassel just opted out of a $3.7M contract. So I would say either of them are hoping for a good payday. But look at Chris Avril and Bennett last year. That payday did not work out so good, so who knows.

  40. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    “it’s called thinning the heard, something that should be done with society in general.”

    What a piece of excrement you are. I hope you are thinned out very soon.

    p.s., it’s a herd, not a heard. But, knuckle draggers like you would never get the distinction.

  41. Harry Says:

    @ROBERT6 Says:
    “…if a person were raised for that to be the norm, who are you to judge?

    I don’t hunt, kill animals etc, but hey…you know how many hunters there are getting there kicks killing animals?”

    Dude, there is a huge difference in killing a domestic animal in cold blood with your bare hands and killing wild animals. And who in the hell raises their kids “for that to be the norm”?

    I was a hunter long ago, and I once had to shoot a dog that got hit by a car and had a broken back. Let me tell you, it takes a special sicko to kill a dog that their is nothing wrong with.

  42. Harry Says:

    @ODB
    “p.s., it’s a herd, not a heard. But, knuckle draggers like you would never get the distinction.”

    “knuckle draggers” – LMAO

  43. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    “if a person were raised for that to be the norm, who are you to judge?”

    You could use that for all sorts of things

    if a person were raised “abusing women” , who are you to judge?

    Who are we to judge??? Are you serious? And when you start comparing animals in the wild, such as deer, who need managed populations, with domestic animals who we live with in our homes, then perhaps you aren’t serious.

    There will be people like me that will make the Glazer’s life a total he_ll if they attempt to sign him. This ain’t Philly.

  44. BucsfaninChina Says:

    Hoooooooly crap. BicMacAttack is clearly more butthurt about the liberals than he is about expressing himself intelligently. For one, what does political affiliation have to do with what you feel about dogs? If Vick is signed, there will be picketers of all shapes, colors, beliefs, etc. Then to say that ppl do not understand Vick’s background because of a different belief system and then call out a group with different beliefs other than yourself?

    I dont know what your agenda is here but you arent helping your cause. Please take a breather go polish a gun with your liberal tears lol

  45. BigMacAttack Says:

    Let the Butthurt Flow!!!
    Yes, more liberal tears!!! I love it!
    Don’t hold back, please.
    Anything you disagree with, you want to take away from others.

    Nothing you can say, can hurt my feelings. My skin is much thicker than that.

    Liberals believe in late term abortions, which somehow isn’t killing in their mind. Hey but I don’t care, abort them liberal babies of hoes that can’t figure out who the baby daddy is. Less welfare and keep on thinning that liberal herd. Wow I even spelled it right that time.

  46. Harry Says:

    @ODB
    Forget it. You can’t fix ‘stupid’. Thats what I “herd”. lol

  47. BigMacAttack Says:

    I went hunting this weekend. Feral Hogs are a nuisance and their population is expanding at an alarming rate. So all you haters need to get out there and shoot some hogs. It will make you feel better I promise. I’ll even clean it for you because I wouldn’t expect your elitist A$$es to get real blood on your hands.

  48. BigMacAttack Says:

    Harry, LOL. Thanks for compliment.

  49. Old*Skool*BucFan Says:

    Stop the crying all you grown babies. Bring in Vick and draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd rounds and let the competition begin. End of story

  50. BigMacAttack Says:

    C’mon guys, I’m just having a little fun. I’ll stop now. Sorry if I offended anyone, well not really, but it’s the offseason and no real news to talk about.

  51. Patrick in VA Says:

    I regret my previous post and apologize for whatever encouragement it may have given

  52. Joe D VA Says:

    I never heard that Vick electrocuted, hanged, and drowned dogs with his bare hands. I just know that he was basically the boss of the largest dog fighting ring in the U.S.(possibly the world..?) Maybe he did do those things, maybe he didn’t. I’m not saying I approve of any of it, but at the same time, I’m not overly upset by it because I’ve known about people fighting dogs just about all my life. It’s pretty common in southern Virginia. I’ve never participated in any of it, nor will I, but I just dont understand how people can have more compassion for animals than human beings.

  53. ROBERT6 Says:

    “And when you start comparing animals in the wild, such as deer, who need managed populations, with domestic animals who we live with in our homes, then perhaps you aren’t serious.”

    when was the last time you visited a pound? I went to many last year to get a dog. about 2/3 of them were terrier, pit bull mix.

    I would not want one near my child. there are some many I would assume because others feel the same. so, in a certain sort I do think they need managed population.

    and to this:
    “I was a hunter long ago, and I once had to shoot a dog that got hit by a car and had a broken back. Let me tell you, it takes a special sicko to kill a dog that their is nothing wrong with.”

    the dog lost and was probably being put out of his misery.

    I can’t believe I am defending vick, because I have had to put down an animal or two, and it broke my heart. but I was not there. I did not see Vick slitting throats with his bare hands. he was fighting dogs, others fight chickens, racing horses are put down all the time.

    back of the tofu and give the guy some credit. he has shown maturity since this all went down.

  54. BigMacAttack Says:

    Now I am 100% against killing Whales or Rhinos. There are too few left and seriously need to be protected.

  55. Harry Says:

    @Joe
    “…Not sure you could say this team is better. Not proven yet. In 2007, Garcia had a top-10 defense and an effective running game.–Joe…”

    I think its very comparable. But there are definitely question marks. I think our RB group might be better – ’07: Graham/Pittman/Williams vs Martin, James, Rainey. WR are close to equal: Hillard/Galloway/”StoneHands” Clayton vs VJ/Williams/Underwood (lol, Underwood has StoneHands beat). I would say the CBs and linebackers are close as well.

    But our Safeties are better and I expect our D-line to be better once they shore up the DE spot in FA. The O-line is the big question mark. That would be the difference.

  56. McBuc Says:

    Vick is 33, how is that too old? Thank you whoever put nick foles stats up, saved me the trouble. I find it funny when people say Vick got beat out by foles and imply glennon is better than foles. That being said we really do not known what we have in glennon, the coaching was so bad.

  57. ROBERT6 Says:

    BMA – what about clubbing seals? you still into that?

  58. SAMCRO Says:

    Vick is not the answer!

    He’s thrown 128 touchdowns in his career with 85 interceptions. That’s 1 interception for every 2.8 touchdowns. Unless you enjoy seeing your defense on the field a lot, then Vick is your man. He doesn’t possess the elusiveness to run anymore and he is notoriously inaccurate throwing on the run. If our offensive line is as offensive this year as they were last year, Vick will either be sacked a lot or throw an inordinate amount of interceptions, just like the last couple of years. He’s too short to throw over lineman that are in his face, unlike Foles or Glennon who can stand tall in the pocket and throw over defenders.

  59. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    @big Mac

    Not liberal or conservative. Only suckers fall for those moronic labels. I judge every situation for what it is. The powers that be are keeping you slugs fighting amongst yourselves by dividing you. But again, I don’t expect lower thinking mammals like you to comprehend such a thing.

    @ joe d

    No he did those things. It’s admitted. Look it up.

  60. Harry Says:

    @ROBERT6 Says:
    “…I can’t believe I am defending vick, because I have had to put down an animal or two, and it broke my heart.”

    Let me first say, I have no moral problem with Vick being a Buc; I just think he is too injury prone. I believe in forgiving, I am far from perfect. And I do forgive Vick for what he did, but I don’t want him in my house either. However, for someone to defend what Vick did is completely asinine to me. Vick himself said it was wrong so how do you feel you have the moral ground to defend it?? Sorry Robert, but you are a complete idiot. Like I said, you can’t fix stupid.

  61. Harry Says:

    @BigMacAttack Says:
    “…Harry, LOL. Thanks for compliment.”

    I have no idea what you are talking about. But if you are siding with Robert, see above…

  62. BigMacAttack Says:

    Robert,
    No man, can’t do the seal thing.
    Your post was on the money about the pits and how many are unwanted, its tough. But in this World, the US is just a small piece and things that are taboo here are common practice in other countries. Dog fighting has been around as long as our Country and although many of us find it cruel or inhumane, many others see it as sport, just like MMA, Boxing or Football, all which can lead to serious injury or death. The big difference is that dogs don’t have the choice, and no matter what the act, the punishment should fit the crime.

  63. Harry Says:

    @Patrick in VA Says:
    “…I think we all come here and comment because we are delusional enough to think that we have thoughts worth hearing.”

    Thats not what you said to PRB last night, lol

  64. BucfaninMO Says:

    Matt Schaub is not a free agent!!!
    In 2012 he signed a 5 year $66.1M contract. As I have read and understand (I’m not a contract expert), if he is released after June 1st he has a cap hit of $3.5M for 2014 and $10M for 2015. I also believe (not too sure, Joe could probably find out) that Houston can take the full cap hit this year if Schaub is let go. Problem with that is that the Texans as of today have only $9M in cap space.

  65. Patrick in VA Says:

    @Harry – It’s a different way of saying the same thing. PRB’s thoughts need to be heard by a therapist

  66. BoJim Says:

    BigMacAttack Said:

    I’m sure he only killed the severely injured ones or those that could no longer perform. it’s called thinning the heard, something that should be done with society in general.

    Man I hope we start with your dumbazz.

  67. Harry Says:

    @BigMacAttack Says:
    “…Vick fought dogs, so what, they’ve been doing that Sh!t forever. Just because someone has a different view or culture doesn’t make them a bad character…. I’m so sick of clowns judging Mike Vick for something that shouldn’t have been a crime, which btw he did his time for anyway.”

    I missed this. Vick himself said he was wrong for what he did. I guess you know better. As a society, we are supposed to evolve, well, some of us anyway (that obviously does not include you BMA). So in the Middle East, it is ok to rape women, and to stone them for being an adulteress. I suppose that is ok too BMA? And centuries ago, dumb azzes like you were killed for practice fodder by Roman warriors. I guess you miss the good old days, huh?

    Its ok to be a conservative, I am one. I also own guns, hunt, all that manly-man stuff. However, once again, you can’t fix stupid; sorry for you BMA

  68. BigMacAttack Says:

    “If everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn’t thinking.”
    -General George S. Patton

    Sorry Bo, I’m entrenched. I’m one of the few job creators left out there, as are some of you. Pay truckloads in taxes and give much of the rest to charity. I do it because I want to and don’t wish to be told to. And you can call me stupid, sure I understand, because I didn’t go to Haarvaard. But the difference with me is this. If you are any race, I welcome you, but please speak English here in public. If you are gay, that’s great be gay, I don’t want to take that from you. If you don’t like guns, don’t own one, but don’t try to take mine. If you choose to sit home and not work, fine, but don’t ask me to pay for your choice, or your healthcare or anything else. And if a man commits a crime and does his time, he should have at least one more chance to make things right. I would have never said a word if someone above didn’t say Vick is a bad character. That is definitely his right to say it and any of our privilege to respond. So I did, had a little fun with it, and now I’m done.

  69. Bucsfanman Says:

    Whew! Talk about touching off a fire-storm! Clearly in a lot of people’s eyes, Vick is polarizing.
    First, I have 2 dogs, love ‘em, but if I absolutely had to, I’d eat those hounds in a second! I wonder if they’d be better stewed?!
    Vick didn’t go to prison for two years for dog killing. He went to prison for bankrolling the gambling ring. The dog killing only helped sensationalize the deal.
    Ask yourself this question: “Where does my food come from?”
    See, for us it’s OK if we don’t know. There’s a horrible terrifying truth about how livestock are treated but we don’t think about it. It’s OK to kill sharks but not manatees, raccoons but not cats or dogs. Why? Don’t you think manatees would be delicious! Each animal has a purpose. Why is killing dogs so polarizing? It’s because we have decided to treat them as family. Yet, we scoff at Hindus for not eating cows. Interesting!
    Vick has paid for his crimes according to federal law. Who are we to judge when there are other players who were let off for much worse like Roethlisberger, Romanowski, LT, Pittman, and lets not forget OJ Simpson(yeah I went there!)? They get a pass? Don’t forget that when you’re standing there picketing.
    I’m not a huge fan of Vick, the guy hasn’t played 16 games his whole career. BUT, he’s better than Glennon(rookie!). I do like Schaub as well.
    Good luck with your grandstanding!

  70. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Let’s also remember, Vick served time for running an intrastate gambling operation. Nothing more that that. He has never served time for animal abuse.

    Nor would any time served change the sociopath that he is.

  71. Harry Says:

    @BMA:
    I think there is a difference in what you are saying and what is being said. I will stand by you to defend your right to forgive Vick (as I do), just as I will stand by Oil Derrick to defend his right NOT to forgive Vick (he has a reasonable point, where do we stop the forgiving? Baby rapists? Wife Beaters? The DUI Dal-lass cowboy killer?). But where I have a problem with what you say is in defending what Vick actually did. Even Vick did not take such a ludicrous stance. Its just stupid to do so.

  72. BigMacAttack Says:

    Harry, so you say Vick admitted he was wrong for what he did, but do you believe he would have said that if he hadn’t been caught? I beleive that Vick was sorry that he caught and was smart enough to say or do whatever he had to do to get his life back. He did that and I respect him for it, but in this day who can ever say what they really mean if it is not politically correct? Those that do are forced to pay a price, unless they have the MSM totally in their pocket. I never condoned what they do to women in the Middle East. That is their culture, which has been around much longer than our 237 years, so who am I to judge them and who are you to judge Vick? And so we disagree and you call me stupid. I never once made a disparaging remark toward you, but because I spoke as I wanted, you categorize me. I assure you that I was never killed by a Roman Soldier in a past life or in the next one.

  73. Gt40bear Says:

    Yes, Vick is better than Glennon…for all of those six starts you’ll get out of him before he breaks…

  74. Harry Says:

    Back to the original subject…

    I believe Vick = Cassel = McCown > Schaub, etc. And I don’t think any of them are all that much better than Glennon. Agree? So if thats the case, why waste cap money on a “maybe” upgrade when we need help in so many other spots. For example, I would greatly prefer Jared Allen over an expensive QB. Right?

    So instead, lets move up in the draft to get Teddy or Johnny, lol. Had to slip that in there.

  75. Bucsfanman Says:

    Nice try Harry! At least you de-railed the Vick thing for a moment.
    I disagree. I mean, sure you want something better but at what price? A FA failure will be much cheaper than a “mortgage the house” to move up to get a 1st rd QB in my opinion.

  76. BigMacAttack Says:

    I hear you Harry, but Dog Fighting has been a sport for (let me look it up) ok it says 13BC in Rome. English Mastiffs bread for it. That is a long time and there has always been a culture that did it ever since. It shrank in popularity and slithered into the dark places, but those who did it believed in it and enjoyed it just as we do football. Mike Vick grew up in that culture and I don’t condemn him for it as many others do. So riddle me this: If someone in a 3′rd World Country brought back the true sport of Gladiators fighting to the death, would the World watch it? Would it make more money than the UFC? Probably would because people love violence and people love heroes. I think also the crime that Vick committed is not anywhere in the same league as the crimes you mention against humanity, which I didn’t condone other than to crack a joke about thinning the “heard” herd.

  77. Bucsfanman Says:

    Harry- yes to Allen over expensive QB.

  78. BigMacAttack Says:

    If the Bucs moved up for Johnny football and mortgaged their draft, I would be elated. I would hate to see them do that for any other QB in the draft though. If they don’t take a QB, which I believe they won’t, I hope they take the best available player or trade the #7 pick and move back a little if possible. We need quality depth and starters all over, especially on the O line. For this to happen the Bucs need to bring a FA QB and Vick may be their best option for a year or two. The guy still has a rocket arm and can move when healthy (???). I would hate to see the Bucs sit on their hands and do nothing at QB but I’ll ride along if they do. I trust in Lovie and Licht until they prove otherwise, but this should take a few years to fix.

  79. Harry Says:

    @BMA
    “…I never condoned what they do to women in the Middle East. That is their culture, which has been around much longer than our 237 years, so who am I to judge them and who are you to judge Vick?”

    Our legal system judged Vick, I only have an opinion. How we as a society evolve is by implementing change to what we feel is wrong, such as how women are treated in other countries, etc. I am all for evolving morally; it makes us better. It is your right to say whatever you want BMA, and it is my right to call it stupid. I really don’t like to resort to the disparaging remarks, but in this case I feel it is warranted.

  80. Bucsfanman Says:

    BMA- other than trading up for Manziel, you are spot on. However it shakes out, I’m in, even if it’s Vick.

  81. Harry Says:

    @BigMacAttack Says:
    “If the Bucs moved up for Johnny football and mortgaged their draft, I would be elated…”

    It frightens me we are now in agreement. I may have to change my stance, lol

  82. Harry Says:

    @ucsfanman Says:
    “…I disagree. I mean, sure you want something better but at what price?”

    If necessary, swapping places with the Rams and ’15 & ’16 1st rd picks, IF after full evaluation Lovie, etc feels he is the real deal. Then we have a franchise QB for the next 10-15 years. How sweet Bucs life would be!

  83. Orca Says:

    There’s no reasoning with people who are defenders of animal torture. Pretty clear when the argument immediately involves liberal bashing. Kinda sociopathic.

  84. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    So Big Mac,

    Human slavery was around for a long time, and still is. Are you also going to say you can’t judge that?

    How about 12 year old girls as brides?

    I don’t care what consenting adults do. I draw the line at animals and children. And I didn’t even learn that at Haaaaarrhvard.

  85. Bucsfanman Says:

    Harry- you lose out on quality players that would typically be starters for years by giving up that pick.
    If that’s who they want and it’s what we have to give for him, trust me, I’d be just as excited. It would be sweet! I’m just trying to keep it real.

  86. ROBERT6 Says:

    I completely disagree with leveraging the whole draft for a QB when we have bigger needs right now and I think MG can be a good to great game manager maybe more. we stick with him and get vick and another 5 from the draft and FA we could be good. We leverage it all and manziel gets hurt we have no depth and glennon thrown to the wolves again, and probably hurt. we then have lost any glimpse of depth and still might need a QB next year.

    but carry on with the dog stuff; we’ve beaten the QB debate to death.

    It humors when I am brief in my comments and am called names by the “better than thou” crowd.

    you go crowd. keep reading those fancy words. I’ll keep making money and making jobs.

  87. BigMacAttack Says:

    So we got Kafka eh. Mute point now.

    ODB, so now you are making assumptions, like weed automatically leads to heroin and cocaine.

    I won’t compare animals to children, it is way way different, but to each his own I guess.

    Animal torture and dog fighting aren’t really one in the same, but close. Killing cattle for food is also inhumane so why the double standard unless you’re a vegan/vegetarian.

    I also believe Vick was judged more harshly because he was Black, and judged by the same people that spout off against racism. There is no way that a Tom Brady would have received the same sentence.

    What the heck does Slavery have to do with anything. I suppose you’re going to call me a racist next.

    I admit I bash elitist liberals occasionally but I do because they are now supporting a Socio-Marxist agenda. I don’t know how else to define their talking point of “Wealth Redistribution”. Sorry but it is what it is.

  88. BigMacAttack Says:

    Thanks, been real, off to the gym. Please feel free to call me a racist after I leave now that the Slavery card has been played by the Liberal Wealth Redistribution Crowd.

  89. Bucsfanman Says:

    ODB- I think you and BMA have made your point. I find your stance on animal cruelty interesting. Are you a vegetarian or a rancher? If not, I recommend investigating what YOUR food goes through before eating it. You’d be appalled, I’m sure. Oh, and it’s legal, in fact, it’s encouraged. Vick did his time, let it go.

  90. tickrdr Says:

    Just a reminder:
    Michael Vick was the number 1 draft pick in the year 2001. He has played 12 seasons, and has managed a QB rating greater than 83.9 in only four of those seasons, even counting one year where he was 6 of 13 with one TD in one game, and this last year with 5TD’s and 3 INT’s. It also took until his seventh season in the league before he got a rating that high. He has thrown for 19 TD’s or more only twice in his career. He has had two seasons with a TD/INT ratio greater than 19/9, again even counting the above season with 6 of 13 with one TD, but no INT’s. Maybe we could trade three first round draft picks to get this “franchise” QB, who was the #1 pick overall.(sarc)

    tickrdr

  91. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    @BigMac

    Jeez, you were just dying to pull out that “call me a racist card” weren’t you?

    There’s real human slavery going on now that involves all colors of people. Same as before the early American slave issue. There were Jew slaves, Asian slaves, white slaves, Native American slaves.

    I never mentioned race. But, it’s funny that you immediately jumped on that.

    Like I said, I’m not liberal or conservative. But, leave it to some slackjaw to get defensive of his whiteness when color when never intimated.

    Of course, maybe it was because he couldn’t defend it from his ignorant line of thinking about dog fighting and the treatment of women in the Middle East.

    The point is human history is filled with many unconscionable things. That doesn’t mean it’s right or ok to ignore. People are E-V-O-L-V-I-N-G. (well, some of them are, right Mac?)

    Instead of going to the gym, maybe you should pick up a book. That sounds like your least used muscle.

  92. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    @BigMac

    Jeez, you were just dying to pull out that “call me a racist card” weren’t you?

    There’s real human slavery going on now that involves all colors of people. Same as before the early American slave issue. There were Jew slaves, Asian slaves, white slaves, Native American slaves.

    I never mentioned race. But, it’s funny that you immediately jumped on that.

    Like I said, I’m not liberal or conservative. But, leave it to some slackjaw to get defensive of his whiteness when color was never intimated.

    Of course, maybe it was because he couldn’t defend it from his ignorant line of thinking about dog fighting and the treatment of women in the Middle East.

    The point is human history is filled with many unconscionable things. That doesn’t mean it’s right or ok to ignore. People are E-V-O-L-V-I-N-G. (well, some of them are, right Mac?)

    Instead of going to the gym, maybe you should pick up a book. That sounds like your least used muscle.

  93. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    @BigMac

    Jeez, you were just dying to pull out that “call me a racist card” weren’t you?

    There’s real human slavery going on now that involves all colors of people. Same as before the early American slave issue. There were J_ew slaves, A_sian slaves, white slaves, N_ative American slaves.

    I never mentioned race. But, it’s funny that you immediately jumped on that.

    Like I said, I’m not liberal or conservative. But, leave it to some slackjaw to get defensive of his whiteness when color when never intimated.

    Of course, maybe it was because he couldn’t defend it from his ignorant line of thinking about dog fighting and the treatment of women in the Middle East.

    The point is human history is filled with many unconscionable things. That doesn’t mean it’s right or ok to ignore. People are E-V-O-L-V-I-N-G. (well, some of them are, right Mac?)

    Instead of going to the gym, maybe you should pick up a book.

  94. Harry Says:

    Sometimes this website is more entertaining than anything on TV. Especially when we get off the football talk.

  95. Harry Says:

    @Bucsfanman Says:
    “Harry- you lose out on quality players that would typically be starters for years by giving up that pick….”

    As I have said many times before, the rationale behind my thinking is the all positions other than QB can be supplemented thru FA and lower picks in the draft. We need a DE – sign Jared Allen; we need a slot WR – sign Riley Cooper, we need a nickel CB – sign Charles Tillman.

    We need a QB? Vick = Cassel = McCown = Schaub = Sanchez, etc. Another teams dregs. Draft one in later rounds? No, not likely, less than a 20% chance of success for any QB taken beyond the top 7 picks. So how do you get one? You buy them thru many draft picks. Its the price a team pays for getting a franchise QB

  96. Harry Says:

    ODB, as I said long ago, you cant fix stupid.

  97. NY Buc Says:

    Gotta say I’m totally in the ant-Vick camp because of his past actions against dogs, and I wouldn’t give two sh!ts if he was the QB savior and it meant the Bucs won every game for the next 25 years with him…there are things more import. Fortunately the man’s skills aren’t all that, so it’s not like a pass on him is a pass on the face of the franchise. Since I am offended by people who are cruel to animals yet also a conservative, own guns, and understand that there is a huge difference between killing animals for food and torturing them for sport I find BMA’s logic…um, let’s just say flawed in a few respects.

  98. BigMacAttack Says:

    ODB, that was such a good post you hit it 3 times. I think I get your point lol. No really, I just read a great book titled Betrayed by Billy Vaughn father of a fallen SEAL. Check it out if you have time

    So NY Buc, is that Eastern NY or Western NY?
    If anyone has flawed logic it is Governor Cuomo. What an idiot.

    At least you’re all Buc Fans and I think you’re pretty cool.

  99. Captain Stagger Says:

    I laugh when Joe says Glennon couldn’t score in the 2nd half. His coach didn’t believe in adjustments, and when Glennon lit it in the no huddle…the coach pulled the plug…..

    Right….it was Glennons fault……

  100. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    Sorry about the triple post. I tried a second time after the first one didn’t show. Then I remembered the blog filters. I changed the spelling of a few select words on the third try and it appeared immediately. The other two showed up like 45 minutes later, miraculously, I suppose.

  101. PRBucFan Says:

    These convo’s steer so far from Buc football it’s not even funny.

    Vick is a washed up hasbeen, that is all.

    Leave the politics and ethical scenarios off of this site, very distasteful to even joke about said things.

  102. NY Buc Says:

    @ BigMac

    Hey we found some common ground in this threat afterall (Cuomo logic sucks!). Rural Upstate Eastern NY to answer question BTW

  103. Buc1987 Says:

    Dang…I can’t believe this article turned into politics. Politics is my hobby and I actually love following it, but you wouldn’t know it. Why? Because it does not belong on this effing site that’s why.

    Go to CNN.com or something.

  104. BigMacAttack Says:

    I did it. It was all my fault and the amount of f*#ks given is Zero. It’s not like I said something bad about someone’s Prius or anything.

  105. sho-nuff Says:

    if its in YOU to grab a dog by its hind legs and SLAM it into the concrete until its lights go out then you’re a sociopath and deserve no place in my society….he “did his time” isn’t good enough for a naturally born evil…those of you that want Vick I could easily step over while you bleed out….you’re pathetically sad to need a sociopath to fill your lust to win in a game…..

  106. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    ” It’s not like I said something bad about someone’s Prius or anything.”

    I’m just impressed that you can spell Prius

 
 

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