Lovie Smith Vs. Winning Teams

January 6th, 2014
lovie smith 0106

Lovie record vs. winners? Not good.

On this holy day of the Church of the Bucs, Lovie Smith will be brought before the altar of Team Glazer and in a very public ceremony, be ordained as the 10th coach in Buccaneers history.

And no, Lovie won’t have to dive in a retention pond behind One Buc Palace to retrieve a coach’s headset to consummate his anointing.

But in this day of jubilation among many Bucs fans, Joe has sobering news by way of former Chicago Tribune scribe Dave Wischnowsky (now that’s a Chicago name!), who types a column for WSCR-AM 620, “The Score,” in Chicago.

Wischnowsky, published this in the waning days of Lovie’s tenure in Chicago. His research and crunched numbers revealed a troubling trend concerning Lovie.

When Lovie’s Bears teams played teams with winning records, rarely did Lovie’s men come out on top. In fact, Smith’s record against teams with a winning records was a paltry 19-of-61, or in baseball terms a .311 average. To be more specific, this means Lovie won less than one out of three against good teams.

[Clarification: The numbers Wischnowsky cited in the link above were not Lovie's full Chicago career, but through 12 games of his final season in Chicago. The numbers Joe calculated were Lovie's full tenure with the Bears.]

That would be a great batting average for Dirtbag Longoria but f,or an NFL head coach, that may be why Lovie was looking for work up until a few days ago.

To be fair, Lovie pounds lesser opponents. His record is 51-15 when facing the dregs of the NFL, a .772 mark.

Joe brings this up for a few reasons:

One, if the Bucs are going to win the division, the only sure way to secure a playoff spot, Lovie must beat good teams consistently. Both New Orleans and Carolina got into the playoffs this season, and does anyone really believe Atlanta won’t be vying for another winning season?

Two, Joe often ragged on leaky Rip Van Freeman’s dismal record against teams with winning records, so this isn’t some hatchet attack job on Lovie.

Three, Joe is lukewarm to the Lovie hire in part because of his record. Trust Joe, no one wants his socks knocked off with thrilling wins from Lovie more than Joe. Time will tell if Lovie can better his nasty trend with the Bucs.

69 Responses to “Lovie Smith Vs. Winning Teams”

  1. William Says:

    We know he will take care of the defense. Hopefully the oc/offensive coaches will perform above average than his previous teams…

  2. phil Says:

    I agree with you Joe. I wasn’t happy about the hire either but I’m hoping that he can turn the Bucs into a winner. But if we don’t get a quarterback he won’t stand a chance in hell of winning.

  3. flmike Says:

    I was initially apprehensive about this hire, then I kinda warmed up to it, but with the selection of Tedford and Fraizer I’m not pleased at all, the Glazers’ have hired a loser who got fired from his last gig and he has hired two more losers who got fired from their last gigs, awesome….I really want to be happy and dancing in the streets about this like a lot of other fans who were pining for the days of yore (watch what you wish for), but with Chicago being my second home, literally (my wife is a native and we are there at a minimum 4-6 times a year) I watched how the city turned on him when he wasn’t able to make ANY offense work, and this is my fear with him in Tampa. Sure we will have a great defense, heck all the pieces are in place they just need to be coached up at a higher level than a redshirted college freshman, so I have no fear for the D. My fear as it always is with any Dungy disciple is the offense, please lord (and I’m an atheist, so thats a lot for me to say) don’t let Lovie near the offense, don’t let him speak, look at or even approach an offensive player without first asking permission, and then those visits need to be closely monitored…. /sarcsim.
    I am hoping and wishing the best for the Bucs, I have been a fan for 20 plus years now, but to be truthful, I don’t expect miracles, I expect a solid defensive team who will not be able to points up enough to keep up with the modern NFL, in short, I expect Dungy Part Deux, which is exactly what Lovie was in Chicago….

  4. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Raheem would say “Stats are for losers”….and he was a loser.

    Right now Buc fans are conditioned to wanting wins against anybody. That will begin to change. You have to expect to win in order to succeed.

    Lovie has the right stuff if he can shore up his weakness-offense!!!

  5. Patrick in VA Says:

    We have the 32nd offense in the league and a group of owners that like flash. I’m pretty sure the Glazers looked at Lovie’s offensive record and had him plead his case as to how he was going to fix our offensive woes. If he was going to neglect the offense and he didn’t have a plan then the Glazers would have at least interviewed other coaches. The fact that they snagged him up so quickly would lead me to believe that he has a good plan. I’m excited to see it.

  6. Harry Says:

    Joe, something you did not point out was that Lovie’s record mostly included having Jay Cutler, a pretty good QB helping him. Having Glennon at QB is not going to improve Lovie’s ability in the NFC South

    Cutler very much reminds me of Free(bc he is also inconsistent), but much better. Do Glennonites really think their boy is better than Cutler? Do you?

  7. Alan Bucs Says:

    The problem with Bucs fans is that even when we get what we are asking for we still aren’t willing to see the process through. The guy just got hired, can’t we wait a few months to see who the quarterback will be and who the new pieces to the offense will be! I am tired of people complaining before they actually see the full plan in place. Lovie was clearly the most experienced and successful coaching candidate out there that wouldn’t have cost us the franchise to acquire. I still have questions too but I’m on board! Go Lovie/Go Bucs!

  8. BucNasty!!! Says:

    I agree Patrick he had a year off to fine tune where he went wrong. It’s called learning from your mistakes. If u look at it all his failed oc’s were failed retreads I think it was wise of him to go outside his box and hire a great offensive mind that has experience n running a offense and team so it shouldn’t b to much of a drop off n his ability to succeed since he can focus solely on just the offense as vice versa with lovie well b fine if not the glazers wouldn’t have agreed so fast. You only agree to something you like and you don’t fire someone for having a 31 ranked offense to pick up someone u think will do worse. And real talk if he makes this defense awesome which seams to b the consensus then all we need is our offense to b half as better as it was the year before and adding Doug Martin James and mike Williams instantly does that and not to mention we have an entire off season to add more. The sky is the limit baby

  9. Harry Says:

    @flmike:
    I disagree calling Lovie a loser. Not many NFL coaches stay in one city for 9 years as he did in CHI. Frazier is also a good coach as evidenced by his ability to take MN to the playoffs last year with Ponder at QB. But I do think he will be a better DC than an HC.

    Tedford I am not so sure about. And I said days ago on here that an important hire would be who Tedford brings in at his QB coach position – the 2nd in command from the OC. From what I have read this is going to be Marcus Arroyo, who has NO NFL experience, either as a play or coach. THAT is definitely concerning.

  10. Harry Says:

    @Alan Bucs
    This is a comment section. Just bc we criticize something does not mean we are not “on board”. I like the Lovie hire a lot. His weakness was offense. His moves there will rightfully get critiqued.

  11. mark2001 Says:

    Article up North how the Bears and Detroit new hires are Offensive Guru’s. Seems that is the trend. We will see if the Bucs can “buc the trend”. Reading this article, you know why I said that Lovie lost the big games….is that what he is, or will we see a better outcome? I hope the later. I don’t know how some of you guys find this article particularly encouraging, particularly when some of you had a big problem with second half adjustments…what about big game adjustments?

  12. Jon Says:

    Every coach has time to fine tune things in the offseason. There were a lot of open jobs last year that all passed on Lovie. I wonder if those teams saw this stat on record against winning teams? Still, with the players we already have on defense and getting healthy on offense, he should easily go .500 next year. We do play the 4th place schedule.

  13. mark2001 Says:

    Harry…so the side of the ball we are worried most about is the Offense, and you are “not sure” about the Offensive coordinator? Wow…that isn’t exactly encouraging. It Gruden hadn’t had Marinelli, would he have had a championship….how about Dungy without Caldwell? He BETTER be the guy. Maybe we should have given Caldwell the HC job…after all, he went to the SB twice as a HC and did no worse than Lovie.

  14. mark2001 Says:

    Nasty…sky isn’t the limit…being competitive is at this point. Lovie has proved no more to this point. HOPEFULLY, he has more in him, but “sky is the limit?” Unless you say that about 30 other NFL teams, you are drinking too much of the pewter punch.

  15. Patrick in VA Says:

    @BucNasty – We’ve certainly had our share of points that we’ve been on opposite sides of the fence on but I like your optimism brother. Hopefully it’ll be contagious as the season draws closer. I’d love for Smith to get us to the point where a 10-6 record isn’t good enough for us anymore. If we can average 9 wins per year over the next decade I’ll be pumped and I’ll take the valleys that come with the peaks that bring us to that 9 win average. That would put us in a pretty strong playoff spot at least a few times. Can’t say I’ve had that kind of half full mentality for a coach in a long, long time.

  16. Patrick in VA Says:

    @mark2001 – Sweet jesus man, you’re a bucs fan. Drink the punch already. This is the offseason. This is the only part of the year that we’ve been able to enjoy ourselves for the better part of a decade. There’s a new coach and there’s hope for a better future. Get on the ship man.

  17. mark2001 Says:

    Jon…we are the third or forth place team in our division, and every team in the NFC north is better than us but the Vikings. The AFC part of the schedule won’t be easy either….so I think a 7-9 record, without some mastermind play with FA’s and drafting, would be the best we can expect at this time.

  18. Alan Bucs Says:

    @Harry

    Not accusing you guys of not being aboard but my question is who would you have preferred the Glazers hire in these positions? Just because there are some college assistants in key positions does not concern me as much. What I see is an experienced and winning Head Coach who will have a plan as to how to improve this roster even more/Get the most out of existing players.

  19. JoeBucsFan.com » Blog Archive » Unprecedented Power For Lovie Smith - Tampa Bay Bucs Football Says:

    [...] « Lovie Smith Vs. Winning Teams [...]

  20. mark2001 Says:

    Patrick…I’ve been on the ship 35 years. I’m just being realistic. But we won’t have to wait for long to see where this is going…..if the O line hasn’t added a #1 speed receiver, improvement in the O line and TE positions (Wright is talented but far from complete) and some more potentially number 1 competition at the QB position, the O won’t make a big jump. Martin is very good, and Williams is a decent number 2, but please, let’s get real. Bucs fans often tend to sign Manic Depressive tendencies……they wanted Gruden run out on a rail, and Schiano, and they are ready to crown Lovie as the beginning of the next Dungy era. Wow.

  21. Chef Paul Says:

    A few days ago there were a couple comments with the analogy of a girl with an abusive boy friend, and after a while she just wants a guy that wont give her a black eye. I’m sorry I don’t remember who said it.

    Put me in that category. I’m just happy my black eyes are healing and I wont have another one for a while. Four years from might be a different story though.

  22. juan0525 Says:

    I’am sure glad joe doesn’t run the Bucs! Stop hating fool!

  23. mark2001 Says:

    Gee Joe…..that isn’t what the Kool Aid drinkers wanted to hear. I knew that was the case, but didn’t have your clarity of exact data, and tried to gently break it to them, and then you put the facts right before their eyes. Wow. Have to give you credit….you are willing to say it like it is….though some will criticize you as raining on their SB victory parade. You are no puff piece shill for anyone, and I’ll tip my cap to you for that as well.

  24. Patrick in VA Says:

    @mark2001 – I agree with all of that. Those are definitely needs. We haven’t seen what will be done in FA or the draft yet. The guy hasn’t even had his first presser with the local media yet. Let’s see what happens before we go talking about fire and brimstone and the demise of the team. Honestly, I have no idea what he’s going to do personnel wise because he essentially has autonomy now and could make decisions wildly different from what was given to him in Chicago. Who knows. All I know is that I’m going to give him a chance to show me what he’s got. I say 2-3 years and we should have seen at least a strong upward trend. I’ll be right behind him and his staff until it’s clear that they’re sinking. If you’re going to be a pessimist fan then, for your own health and welfare, ya gotta find something else to do with your time. It’s supposed to be fun and entertaining. Having that kind of bleak outlook is a bad way to go when you follow a team that has been bad by and large over the course of our history.

  25. BucNasty!!! Says:

    At mark why isn’t it the limit why aren’t we n a good position to b successful? We was n that position last year we just had plenty injuries. …which other teams had but our downfall was having our talent misused and our opportunities squandered by being conservative. Tell us where we are weak at that can’t be fixed in one off season? We have the resources to solve all our problems and at the least fill all our wholes but 1 or 2 and no one will have a Complete team with no holes so why can’t I drink the punch? Please explain what problem we have this year that can’t be solved before opening week?

  26. Chef Paul Says:

    When someone gets off the hard drugs, the best thing to do, is when you have a temptation, you just keep reminding yourself of how you felt that day when you hit rock bottom. NEVER forget how you felt that day.

    Whatever Lovie does with this team, I will always remember how I felt in October when we had no wins yet. I’m sure under him we will never go 0-8 to start the season. And we may disagree with some of the moves he makes, but I will probably never hate him like a did for a few weeks with Greg. NEVER forget how felt about this team back in October.

  27. mark2001 Says:

    Chef…that is reasonable. I just hope that instead of running from one “mistake to another”, and hopefully Lovie will be great, we can run to a diamond in the rough. We fired Tony because he was in a position where we couldn’t hire a decent O coordinator, the D he had built was entering the last two or three years of their dominance, and the team wasn’t close to being competitive with Philly. Sometimes a coach hits the wall like Andy Ried did in Philly as well and needs to move on…it isn’t that they are a bad coach. Gruden lost his D coordinator mid year, and Allen didn’t know talent if it bit him in the rear….maybe a new GM would have been the better choice, but as I said elsewhere…..Bucs fans seem to be manic depressive when it comes to HC’s…since Tony was fired. What concerns me most is that I don’t see a unified plan to rebuild the front office and staff…we don’t even have a GM yet. You all can’t help but notice something is missing regarding a unified plan.

  28. mark2001 Says:

    Nasty…your assessment is only correct if we are as talented as you think we are….and honestly, we do have some excellent players, but we aren’t that talented. How many guys that we have would you trade, position for position, with SF, Seattle, NE, Denver, Carolina? Maybe a half dozen at most that would be better on our team? That is your measure…not if we think a guy plays “well”…that is what Joe does when talking about the QB position, and he has a point. You can’t really talk about talent unless you analyze position by position. Add to our offense, another pass rusher, another line backer, another CB and more depth and you will be hitting on something. Injuries? Everyone had injuries….the Chiefs lost about 5 guys in the playoff game two days ago and came with in 30 yards of ball movement of winning that game. As many say, and I agree….let’s not get into that as an excuse.

  29. Patrick in VA Says:

    @mark2001 – to be fair, the front runner for the GM spot wasn’t available until yesterday. I would imagine that if Ballard were on one of the teams that wasn’t in the playoffs then he’d probably already be here

  30. INVESTWAX Says:

    If my memory serves me correct, Billicheck didn’t have the greatest record before joining Patriots (and getting a top QB). Pete Carroll, same thing. The difference maker seems to be how good your field general is.

    Exceptions include teams like the Ravens, who have won two Superbowls with average QBs that don’t mess up.

    It is important to have a better than average QB, preferrably a top level QB, quality players on offense, but you must have a solid defense.

    Conclusion: Lovie’s record is what it is. Lovie is our HC. The slate is clean right now and we do have a good nucleus of players and many important gaps to fill. The decisions he makes between now and the draft will tell us 80% of what we need to know.

  31. Chef Paul Says:

    I agree Mark, I’m usually not too happy with the decisions the Glazer boys make. I would have much preferred a GM first. It’s just the model of how successful teams are built. They obviously have no clue how to run an American football team.

    With that being said, when you look at their track record, I think we got off pretty lucky so far this offseason. I could have been much much worse.

    Granted, I wish they made better decisions, but they don’t and this is what we have to live with. So that’s kind of why I’m not too disappointed. This is probably in the top 3 as a good decision they have made.

  32. That Guy Says:

    In light of the Joes’ arguments previously that Detroit and Miami were “good teams” and that five wins were sufficient to retain Gregory, this post amuses me to no end. Troll on, Joes!

  33. mark2001 Says:

    Hey Patrick…I am surrounded by Packer fans….I could easily go with the flow or just focus on the Rays…..and bottom line, we know who this all reflects on…the Glazers. If they jerk from coach to coach or whatever, and can’t explain the plan to the fan base, they are lacking the ability to be competitive with other team owners or boards. There is no “magic” formula, and luck has little to do with it.

  34. Waterboy Says:

    I’d be interested to know Gruden’s record against teams with winning records.

  35. William Says:

    Some people just need to carry an UMBRELLA with them at all times.

    I can’t see then sun ~ it’s going to rain!

    Boo Hooo Boo Hooo Boo Hooo…..

    I remember people complaining when Gruden arrived. No people I’m not saying Lovie is Gruden. I’m saying complainers are always looking to explain why they are holding their UMBRELLA. lol

    I’m being REAL people! lol

  36. tim Says:

    His record was with a garbage off. co and Rex Grossman and Kyle Orton!

  37. mark2001 Says:

    Patrick…you have a point. Just consider this, though…. Lovie and the Glazers of course, will have much more say so regarding personnel than the new GM. Not that he would be able to throw in his “two bits”, but will be more limited in his powers than most GM’s. I wonder if the real organizational difficulty lies with the way the Glazers deal with GM’s. We know Richie left under very difficult circumstances, and other than Dom, who was a “GM in training”, we have yet to find evidence that they aren’t the biggest source of the problem. I do know this, however….coaches have different schemes that require different types of talent. And unless you are supremely more talented than everyone else, the fit of the talent to the scheme is one of the keys to the success of the team. And if you change a HC every few years, you will likely never realize that benefit. That is one reason Gruden didn’t touch the Defense, nor the personnel. He knew that if he had tried to “retool” that championship Defense, likely we wouldn’t have nearly in a position to win the SB.

  38. Tackleblockwin Says:

    After the last two HCs I can understand the concern about our new one. But Lovie has a pretty good résumé. First season with Bears he had 5 wins (his worst year as a HC coach). He followed that with an 11 win season. In 9 years with Bears he had 5 winning seasons. So in short I am very excited about Lovie. I think we all know that it will come down to our O putting up better numbers.

  39. mark2001 Says:

    William…I didn’t complain when Gruden was hired…I cheered. I thought it was the wrong decision when we let him go and not Allen alone. I did think it was time for Tony to go….when we couldn’t shore up the O side of the ball after multiple coordinators…and in fact, we couldn’t get a good one to come in here because Tony’s position was becoming increasingly insecure. So I have never been a “manic depressive” kind of guy. I just know something about building an organization and managing people. Don’t get me wrong…I hope Lovie is the most successful coach we have ever had…couldn’t be happier…but his track record gives me some concern. And when someone says “playoffs, here we come”, I just have to say…wait a minute and think about where we are.

  40. mark2001 Says:

    Tackle…did you see the record against Winning teams mentioned in this article? When you look at the record, it is good to beat the Minnesota’s of the world…if you can’t beat winning teams, you will lose in the first round of the playoffs…if you get there.

  41. Dick2111 Says:

    Sometimes I think perpetual losing creates a ‘I just know something else is going to go wrong’ mindset. But it’s good to see so many Bucs fans keeping an open mind on Lovie and being willing to at least give him a chance to right the ship. Lovie’s got all the tools to be a great coach here, but any coach is only as good as the people he has around him … be that his coordinators, assistant coaches or players. Far as his record against winning teams goes, winning teams have great quarterbacks for the most part to lead the charge. Just look at this weekend’s playoffs results. Lovie never really had that in Chicago from what I see. Heck, Tony never had that until he went to Indy, then look at what happened.

  42. mark2001 Says:

    Waterboy…don’t have that data…but Gruden did have 5 division championships, compared to Lovie’s 3, and of course the a SB victory.

  43. Tackleblockwin Says:

    Joe,

    So now that Lovie is coaching do you think the odds of your guy (Johnny Football) wearing a Bucs uniform next season are better?

    Better than with Schiano. Yes. –Joe

  44. Tackleblockwin Says:

    Mark,

    Yes, I saw that record. But after many seasons of no playoffs, the first step is just getting there. So very tired of losing games we are suppose to win…lol. Lets not kid ourselves, Lovie is not taking over a Bucs team primed for playoff appearances. He has work to do to turn this franchise around. I think he is a very good fit, and comes with solid NFL experience.

  45. NewTampaChris Says:

    Let’s not complain about not having Vince Lombardi as the new coach. For the last five years, we’ve had to worry about whether our guy knows how to coach an NFL team. (In addition to worrying about whether our players are any good.) Having the confidence to be certain that Lovie is, at a minimum, competent is huge for me. Bringing in assistants like Tedford, Frazier, Sparano (if true) is a huge leap from Olson, Sullivan, et al.

  46. Eric Says:

    Considering our OVERALL record against all teams in the last five years is .35 ill take it. I didn’t calculate what our record has been against winning teams, but I am betting its putrid beyond belief.

    There are no dregs in the NFL, its hard to win week by week.

    Plus, Lovie is .500 in the playoffs, with a trip to the Super Bowl with a close loss to the Manning/Dungy led Colts. Almost made it to Super Bowl again in 2010.

    They beat Sean Peyton and Brees and Company in the NFC Championship game.

    11-5, 8-8, 10-6 the last three years.

    Im betting if you did that analysis on a lot of coaches considered big time it would show similar results.

  47. BucNasty!!! Says:

    At mark so apparently since we need another lb we need stars at every positon right? I Mean We Cant Have Average Players That Play Well AND Do There Job Or Play above There Talent WITH good coaching right lmao we have holes but to me that’s not one that’s is a place we can upgrade but to say that’s a hole is like saying we need to revamp our lb core lmao David is a stud Mason plays well and only getting better and the combo of cassilas and Watson was not a death sentence we could deff win with that lb core. We have hole but I reiterate we don’t have big huge gaping holes that can’t b filled b4 now and the opening day

  48. passthebuc Says:

    I am somewhat surprised that people do not understand the hire. The Glazers just hired mediocrity. Someone that can get them wins from 9 and 7 to 11 and 5, which will prevent the Elephants in the room (Fans) from trampling their grass( Money).

    The statistics in Joe’s piece were available for anyone to see if they took the time and yet everyone jumped on this hire as if it were the 2nd coming of Jesus. Lovie is a good coach but that’s where it ends. He is not the Messiah and in 2-3 years the cries for stoning will echo over the waters of Tampa Bay.

  49. Gus Says:

    My guess would be most coaches don’t have high winning percentage againstwinning teams….. Show me a bunch of other coqches percentage to back this argument

  50. Eric Says:

    19-38 Joe, not 19-61.

  51. Oil Derrick Brooks Says:

    @passthebucs

    You will get lit up posting all the rationale in these parts. I tried last week. No one wants to hear it.

    Don’t even try to point out the OC never called plays in the NFL. Or has even coached at all in the NFL. Apparently the fact Lovie likes him is enough.

  52. Bobby Says:

    Most teams don’t have tremendous records against winning teams. Chuck Noll didn’t have a great record against winning teams but did very well against losing teams or .500 teams and peaked in the playoffs. That’s how you win super bowls.

  53. lurker Says:

    yes, 19-38 against winning teams

    the writer broke down lovie’s record vs teams under .500, at .500, and over .500

    this is his 9 seasons in Chicago:
    2004 Chicago Bears NFL 5 11
    2005 Chicago Bears NFL 11 5
    2006 Chicago Bears NFL 13 3 NFC Champions
    2007 Chicago Bears NFL 7 9
    2008 Chicago Bears NFL 9 7
    2009 Chicago Bears NFL 7 9
    2010 Chicago Bears NFL 11 5
    2011 Chicago Bears NFL 8 8
    2012 Chicago Bears NFL 10 6

  54. lurker Says:

    I wanted someone other than lovie. get that hot offensive coordinator here. but lovie is here now.

    if lovie = dungy, as some have said, then we will need one more coach to get us over the hump like gruden did.

  55. Buc1987 Says:

    I think no matter who the Glazers hired, fans could find flaws and reasons to bitch about the hire.

    Hell if Andy Reid was hired last year, Buc fans would have been whining about him too and his flaws as well.

    And you know I’m right!

  56. Eric Says:

    Looking at two playoff teams from this year.

    Chiefs 1-4 vs winning records
    Pats 3-4 vs. winning records.

    Think they have good coaches?

    Is a very misleading stat.

    As the article points out Green Bays coach is 21-25 vs. winning teams. And he has a Hall of Famer at QB.

  57. Brandon Says:

    People continue bashing the hire…saying they wanted the hot new offensive coordinator, etc… so tell us, who would you have hired?

    Fellas, it’s all about the QBs. If the right defensive coach gets one, then he looks like a genius. Peyton has made Jim Mora/Dungy/Fox all look like geniuses even though they weren’t in their previous stops, Brady made Belichick look like a genius, Aikman and Jimmy Johnson, Ryan and Mike Smith, Newton and Rivera, McNair to Jeff Fisher, the list goes on. If Smith can find the right QB, everything will be alright.

    Trading up for Teddy Bridgewater, selecting Bortles, Manziel, or Carr would give us a great chance of future success though likely 2nd rounder Brett Smith could also figure into the mix.

  58. lurker Says:

    well, eric, according to half the people here, it is defense not the qb that matters.

  59. lurker Says:

    ps the chiefs are home now

  60. Vic Says:

    Ok and……….

    This just means his team wasn’t good enough to beat those teams. One reason was he wasn’t good enough at the QB posiition and that includes Cutler.

    The lesson learned get a franchise QB; hopefully, Lovie has learned that!!!!!

  61. BigMacAttack Says:

    Key word here is “Bears” not Bucs. We are not the Bears, never have been, never will be. Different Players, different time, different city, weather conditions, everything is different but the Head Coach.

  62. Architek Says:

    Watch it Joe you are entering the Fun Cop zone!

  63. $acbuc$ Says:

    Im with Joe I WANT JOHNNY FOOTBALL! Im interested on how we would do it without pulling a RG3 move?

  64. Eric Says:

    @lurker,

    Your right.

    Im just saying that won/loss record vs. winning teams is not that far out of wack with a lot of coaches who are considered good. New England routinely beats up on the weaker teams in the regular season.

    Id like to get some wins against freaking anybody at this point. Get in the playoffs and anything can happen. Like the Chargers, or the Giants, or the Cards a few years back.

  65. PRBucFan Says:

    Whatevs

    Different Lovie, different team, different staff, different time

    Out with old, in with the new

  66. PRBucFan Says:

    And no Lurker, we have Dunden remember?

    Believe broski!

  67. pick6 Says:

    lovie had a golden opportunity to dominate the NFC north, especially the first half of his tenure. the packers in the latter favre era were just good enough to get to the playoffs but were pretty uneven, detroit was handing out Ws to opponents in the millen era, and the vikings were in the death throes of the culpepper\moss era and was usually underachieving. until last season there never seemed to be more than 2 teams with a realistic shot of winning the division, and his team was always one of them. most teams\coaches\players who dominate an era (manning’s AFC South days and the AFC east since Brady’s ascent come to mind) have been able to count on a very week division to pad their regular season records and set them up for annual playoff trips.

  68. Joe Says:

    FYI on Lovie’s win numbers.

    Joe’s original numbers in calculating Lovie’s numbers were in fact, correct. The numbers Wischnowsky cited were not Lovie’s full career in Chicago, but through 12 games in his final season, as Joe had already pointed out in the story.

  69. lurker Says:

    joes, i’m just trying to help you out…

    I totally understood the article when I first found it. the article was written when they had 4 games left, in which lovie went 2-2.

    look at your numbers. lovie’s career record was 81-63. look at my post above for his win/lose records in each of his 9 seasons. you have “19 of 61″ versus winning record teams, and “51-15″ versus the dregs. that may be the confusion.

    in fact, the article was right. lovie’s record, with four games remaining in 2012, versus teams with records over .500 was 19-38 (wins/losses) or 19 wins out of 57 games.

    now, the last four games Chicago played were:
    team w/l rec at time final record
    minn l 6/6 10/6
    gb l 9/4 11/5
    ariz w 5/9 5/11
    det w 4/11 4/12

 
 

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