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	<title>Comments on: Statistical Gibberish Getting Out Of Hand</title>
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		<title>By: BrianDorry55</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2878217</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianDorry55</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2878217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wouldnt have guessed that Foster was at the top...but I definitely would have guessed that he was better than Lavonte in that regard. People love to hate on Foster for some reason...he played damn good ball this year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wouldnt have guessed that Foster was at the top&#8230;but I definitely would have guessed that he was better than Lavonte in that regard. People love to hate on Foster for some reason&#8230;he played damn good ball this year.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonny 3.3</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2876864</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonny 3.3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 09:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2876864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, I can see where you are coming from and how you have doubts about PFF&#039;s stats, but the access to the coaches film using NFL Game Pass is as easy as &lt;$50.00. Heck, I know a way to even do it for free, which of course I wont reveal in your site to avoid getting suspended.

Now the way they may have analyzed Foster is if QBs targeted the man Foster was covering or not. May be there was no need to target for short yardage when our CBs were letting their receivers run wild, but it also may be because Foster was doing a decent enough job to prevent QBs from throwing the ball towards his side. Either way, its an interesting analysis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I can see where you are coming from and how you have doubts about PFF&#8217;s stats, but the access to the coaches film using NFL Game Pass is as easy as &lt;$50.00. Heck, I know a way to even do it for free, which of course I wont reveal in your site to avoid getting suspended.</p>
<p>Now the way they may have analyzed Foster is if QBs targeted the man Foster was covering or not. May be there was no need to target for short yardage when our CBs were letting their receivers run wild, but it also may be because Foster was doing a decent enough job to prevent QBs from throwing the ball towards his side. Either way, its an interesting analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2876622</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 08:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2876622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I subscribe to PFF premium.  The breakdowns for any given week start trickling out late Sunday night and are typically done by early Tuesday morning.  The NFL typically releases All-22 film on Tuesday.  Thus, their stats and breakdowns are out BEFORE the all-22 footage is released by the NFL.  
I like looking at an outside source to see how they grade the Bucs each week.  It&#039;s fun.  It&#039;s not gospel (as noted by Joe above!).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I subscribe to PFF premium.  The breakdowns for any given week start trickling out late Sunday night and are typically done by early Tuesday morning.  The NFL typically releases All-22 film on Tuesday.  Thus, their stats and breakdowns are out BEFORE the all-22 footage is released by the NFL.<br />
I like looking at an outside source to see how they grade the Bucs each week.  It&#8217;s fun.  It&#8217;s not gospel (as noted by Joe above!).</p>
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		<title>By: BamBamBuc</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2875801</link>
		<dc:creator>BamBamBuc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Feb 2013 02:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2875801</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just putting this out there... I believe PFF is a 3 man staff, however I do believe they use volunteer help to break down film.  I don&#039;t subscribe to their premium statistics, I do read their articles sometimes.  They have been pretty accurate in most things I&#039;ve read (e.g. Michael Bennett was their &quot;Secret Superstar last off-season and he did play well enough to earn a nice new contract with some team).  All statistics are subject to human interpretation and error, especially without knowledge of what play the coach called (whcih guy blew an assignment? What was the plan the coach had for that play?)  I&#039;ve seen many situations where a DB &quot;thought he had help over the top&quot;.  Well, was that the DB blowing his assignment by &quot;thinking&quot; he had help when he really didn&#039;t?  Or the Safety fault for being out of position or &quot;not over the top&quot;?  We don&#039;t know which of the two blew the assignment, we didn&#039;t draw up the play.  Is it possible the MLB changed things before the snap because he saw something and the DB didn&#039;t hear the change?  Then it&#039;s really more the MLB fault as much as the CB or S.  You see?  It&#039;s all subjective.  As for &quot;All 22&quot; footage, the individuals I&#039;ve talked to that &quot;volunteered&quot; in film breakdown have used &quot;All 22&quot;, but any statistical site (PFF, Football Outsiders, etc) has only had access to that film a year or two.  Before that, all film was TV footage.  There are many sites that have &quot;forgotten&quot; to update their FAQ when they began using new tech until someone has brought it to their attention.  I really don&#039;t understand the big fuss... We all know stats are subjective at best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just putting this out there&#8230; I believe PFF is a 3 man staff, however I do believe they use volunteer help to break down film.  I don&#8217;t subscribe to their premium statistics, I do read their articles sometimes.  They have been pretty accurate in most things I&#8217;ve read (e.g. Michael Bennett was their &#8220;Secret Superstar last off-season and he did play well enough to earn a nice new contract with some team).  All statistics are subject to human interpretation and error, especially without knowledge of what play the coach called (whcih guy blew an assignment? What was the plan the coach had for that play?)  I&#8217;ve seen many situations where a DB &#8220;thought he had help over the top&#8221;.  Well, was that the DB blowing his assignment by &#8220;thinking&#8221; he had help when he really didn&#8217;t?  Or the Safety fault for being out of position or &#8220;not over the top&#8221;?  We don&#8217;t know which of the two blew the assignment, we didn&#8217;t draw up the play.  Is it possible the MLB changed things before the snap because he saw something and the DB didn&#8217;t hear the change?  Then it&#8217;s really more the MLB fault as much as the CB or S.  You see?  It&#8217;s all subjective.  As for &#8220;All 22&#8243; footage, the individuals I&#8217;ve talked to that &#8220;volunteered&#8221; in film breakdown have used &#8220;All 22&#8243;, but any statistical site (PFF, Football Outsiders, etc) has only had access to that film a year or two.  Before that, all film was TV footage.  There are many sites that have &#8220;forgotten&#8221; to update their FAQ when they began using new tech until someone has brought it to their attention.  I really don&#8217;t understand the big fuss&#8230; We all know stats are subjective at best.</p>
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		<title>By: Keith</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874917</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 21:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874917</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I subscribe to PFF but I definitely don&#039;t think these guys are great with their accuracy. Just match up their data with what guys get paid in free agency and how their teams value them and it doesn&#039;t jibe all the time at all. 

Just because PFF says they were verified as 99 percent accurate doesn&#039;t mean anything at all until the other side (NFL GMs) really explain on the record what PFF brings to the table. 

Think about it. The Bucs have an entire department devoted to scouting the NFL. Why would they rely on some no-name guys of PFF for anything other than interesting bathroom reading and/or to see if they can pick out any trends from the compilation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I subscribe to PFF but I definitely don&#8217;t think these guys are great with their accuracy. Just match up their data with what guys get paid in free agency and how their teams value them and it doesn&#8217;t jibe all the time at all. </p>
<p>Just because PFF says they were verified as 99 percent accurate doesn&#8217;t mean anything at all until the other side (NFL GMs) really explain on the record what PFF brings to the table. </p>
<p>Think about it. The Bucs have an entire department devoted to scouting the NFL. Why would they rely on some no-name guys of PFF for anything other than interesting bathroom reading and/or to see if they can pick out any trends from the compilation.</p>
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		<title>By: Capt. Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874493</link>
		<dc:creator>Capt. Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874493</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Relax. David is a rookie. Pass coverage is the hardest thing to learn. He&#039;ll be greatly improved this year. I hope the same is true for Barron! He was horrible - even for a rookie!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Relax. David is a rookie. Pass coverage is the hardest thing to learn. He&#8217;ll be greatly improved this year. I hope the same is true for Barron! He was horrible &#8211; even for a rookie!</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874485</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 18:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874485</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Honestly, to answer the issues on Mark Barron: I didn&#039;t like the scheme and the way we used him.  We played too aggressive at times, in my opinion.  In the NFL today, with the rise of passing offense, and so many good QBs, you need to have your front 4 get at the QB with the occassional dial up blitz.  I think Barron was in bad positioning several times due to play calling.  

As for this statistical crap: Foster was decent in coverage. Not great. Stats are bogus. People need to watch the games.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly, to answer the issues on Mark Barron: I didn&#8217;t like the scheme and the way we used him.  We played too aggressive at times, in my opinion.  In the NFL today, with the rise of passing offense, and so many good QBs, you need to have your front 4 get at the QB with the occassional dial up blitz.  I think Barron was in bad positioning several times due to play calling.  </p>
<p>As for this statistical crap: Foster was decent in coverage. Not great. Stats are bogus. People need to watch the games.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874400</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 17:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[buccanay :



&lt;blockquote&gt;So you use PFF if they bolster your argument, or your opinion on a particular player, team or scenario and you criticize them when their information doesn’t back up your agenda. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;


In a word, &quot;NO.&quot;

The only agenda Joe has is for the Bucs to win. Oh, and for &lt;a href=&quot;http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__VeFPukiO1Y/TUsCnOZqE5I/AAAAAAAAENI/9vBYQGghxKU/s1600/rachel-watson-49450.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Rachel Watson&lt;/a&gt; to visit his lair, preferably wearing something kinky.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>buccanay :</p>
<blockquote><p>So you use PFF if they bolster your argument, or your opinion on a particular player, team or scenario and you criticize them when their information doesn’t back up your agenda.
</p></blockquote>
<p>In a word, &#8220;NO.&#8221;</p>
<p>The only agenda Joe has is for the Bucs to win. Oh, and for <a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__VeFPukiO1Y/TUsCnOZqE5I/AAAAAAAAENI/9vBYQGghxKU/s1600/rachel-watson-49450.jpg" rel="nofollow">Rachel Watson</a> to visit his lair, preferably wearing something kinky.</p>
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		<title>By: buccanay</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874309</link>
		<dc:creator>buccanay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 17:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874309</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So you use PFF if they bolster your argument, or your opinion on a particular player, team or scenario and you criticize them when their information doesn&#039;t back up your agenda.  How convenient!

On Barron being one of the worst pass defenders...I strongly believe the Bucs coaches are doing a disservice to Barron and the defense by having Barron playing more FS and Barber more like a SS. IMO, coaches are trying to cover-up Barber&#039;s declining coverage skills by using him more in the box.  Barron is a true SS, and should be in the box when those plays are called. We&#039;ve all seen the hit Barron put on Steve Smith after Barber &quot;oles&quot; him.  We need a real FS so Barron can be the &quot;enforcer&quot; type of SS he was drafted to be. IMO, Barber still has a role to play on this team, but not as a startin FS, but as a &quot;slot CB&quot; or nickel CB.  He has neither the range of a FS nor the ferocity of a SS. I believe the coaches know this, as well, and wont make a hard push to bring him back as a &quot;FS&quot;, but will offer him a position as a &quot;nickel CB&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you use PFF if they bolster your argument, or your opinion on a particular player, team or scenario and you criticize them when their information doesn&#8217;t back up your agenda.  How convenient!</p>
<p>On Barron being one of the worst pass defenders&#8230;I strongly believe the Bucs coaches are doing a disservice to Barron and the defense by having Barron playing more FS and Barber more like a SS. IMO, coaches are trying to cover-up Barber&#8217;s declining coverage skills by using him more in the box.  Barron is a true SS, and should be in the box when those plays are called. We&#8217;ve all seen the hit Barron put on Steve Smith after Barber &#8220;oles&#8221; him.  We need a real FS so Barron can be the &#8220;enforcer&#8221; type of SS he was drafted to be. IMO, Barber still has a role to play on this team, but not as a startin FS, but as a &#8220;slot CB&#8221; or nickel CB.  He has neither the range of a FS nor the ferocity of a SS. I believe the coaches know this, as well, and wont make a hard push to bring him back as a &#8220;FS&#8221;, but will offer him a position as a &#8220;nickel CB&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: 4everBucsFan</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874149</link>
		<dc:creator>4everBucsFan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a statement PFF claims on accuracy,

&quot;We aren’t perfect, and there is a small element of human error in the process, but we have had our data verified by two NFL teams at over 99 percent accurate. Over the past few seasons we can count on one hand the plays where it has been physically impossible to identify a player from the TV footage. &quot;

That right there, tells me they utilize TV footage to form their statistical opinions.

I think claiming they are 99% accurate is misleading as well, since their is no measured way to accurately challenge their opinions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a statement PFF claims on accuracy,</p>
<p>&#8220;We aren’t perfect, and there is a small element of human error in the process, but we have had our data verified by two NFL teams at over 99 percent accurate. Over the past few seasons we can count on one hand the plays where it has been physically impossible to identify a player from the TV footage. &#8221;</p>
<p>That right there, tells me they utilize TV footage to form their statistical opinions.</p>
<p>I think claiming they are 99% accurate is misleading as well, since their is no measured way to accurately challenge their opinions.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874147</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Day:

Even with an All-22, for a three-man staff to put together all of those weekly stats is per player is, frankly, mind-boggling.

When Joe launched this site, the first year &quot;this Joe&quot; documented each and every snap Gaines Adams played each week. Just analyzing one player for each play, it would take Joe virtually two hours to document each snap. Rewind, play, rewind, play, rewind, play. Again, this is for one player.

For three guys to document each and every NFL player for 16 games a week (usually), as Joe stated above, &quot;do the math.&quot; Unless they have interns (possible), there simply isn&#039;t enough time in a week.

Do they offer insight? Sure do. And there&#039;s enough NFL scribes that Joe respects that swear by this outfit that Joe doesn&#039;t dismiss them totally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Day:</p>
<p>Even with an All-22, for a three-man staff to put together all of those weekly stats is per player is, frankly, mind-boggling.</p>
<p>When Joe launched this site, the first year &#8220;this Joe&#8221; documented each and every snap Gaines Adams played each week. Just analyzing one player for each play, it would take Joe virtually two hours to document each snap. Rewind, play, rewind, play, rewind, play. Again, this is for one player.</p>
<p>For three guys to document each and every NFL player for 16 games a week (usually), as Joe stated above, &#8220;do the math.&#8221; Unless they have interns (possible), there simply isn&#8217;t enough time in a week.</p>
<p>Do they offer insight? Sure do. And there&#8217;s enough NFL scribes that Joe respects that swear by this outfit that Joe doesn&#8217;t dismiss them totally.</p>
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		<title>By: Have A Nice Day</title>
		<link>http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123&#038;cpage=1#comment-2874070</link>
		<dc:creator>Have A Nice Day</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2013 16:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=83123#comment-2874070</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah. Well, yes, they use All-22. They have written about it in multiple articles.

I know I can tell what defenses are being played from a simple replay on TV. I imagine it is far easier when that is your job.

Your argument for increased mistakes due to over work is noted, and I believe may have some credence, but in no way to the point of a total offset.

Even if they make a grading mistake one out of every 100 plays per player(which I highly doubt is that high or no teams would work with them in any capacity), that itself, in theory, will balance itself out since it is on a plus/minus scale. some mistakes will be positive, some will be negative. I generally look at the grades of each position and depending on the disparity from high to low, and the average grade, will give a flexibility of 2-5 points plus or minus. This removes any doubt. If you can take away 5 points from a player and he still grades relatively high, I&#039;m positive that guy played well.

Plus they have a whole &quot;signature stats&quot; section that allows the players to weight the raw stats to the grades to give them an even better idea of how a player is performing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah. Well, yes, they use All-22. They have written about it in multiple articles.</p>
<p>I know I can tell what defenses are being played from a simple replay on TV. I imagine it is far easier when that is your job.</p>
<p>Your argument for increased mistakes due to over work is noted, and I believe may have some credence, but in no way to the point of a total offset.</p>
<p>Even if they make a grading mistake one out of every 100 plays per player(which I highly doubt is that high or no teams would work with them in any capacity), that itself, in theory, will balance itself out since it is on a plus/minus scale. some mistakes will be positive, some will be negative. I generally look at the grades of each position and depending on the disparity from high to low, and the average grade, will give a flexibility of 2-5 points plus or minus. This removes any doubt. If you can take away 5 points from a player and he still grades relatively high, I&#8217;m positive that guy played well.</p>
<p>Plus they have a whole &#8220;signature stats&#8221; section that allows the players to weight the raw stats to the grades to give them an even better idea of how a player is performing.</p>
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