Timing Right For “Historical” Class
February 11th, 2019
Cash-obsessed Bucs fans go to bed these days dreaming of Tampa Bay cutting ties soon with Gerald McCoy, Vinny Curry and Will Gholston.
That would mean $25 million in added 2019 salary cap.
Those potential moves could free the Bucs to be a major player in free agency in four short weeks, especially if they also do the smart thing and cut the cord on DeSean Jackson’s $10 million anchor.
And if the Bucs made those moves? That would leave holes on the defensive line to fill around Jason Pierre-Paul, Carl Nassib and Vita Vea. If you listen to Eagles general manager Howie Roseman, you might think the timing is right for those holes because the D-line crop in the 2019 draft is legendary.
“It’s clearly a very good defensive line group,” Roseman said Tuesday. “Probably a historical defensive line group, and that’s both at end and tackle.”
What if the Bucs traded down in the first round with a quarterback-needy team, collected draft picks and were able to nab Clemson defensive tackle Christian Wilkins early in the first round? He seems like an absolute can’t-miss versatile prospect on and off the field. And then the Bucs could use their added draft capital on, say, DE Zach Allen out of Boston College, another football-loving, big-time athlete projected as a late first-round or second-round pick.
If the D-line class really is as good as Roseman (and many others) believe, then the Bucs should take advantage, and maybe pick up a capable young depth piece like former Arians-Bowles DE Alex Okafor in free agency.
Joe’s not advocating cutting any of the defensive linemen specifically, at least not today, but Joe is not a status woe kind of guy. You won’t find Joe clinging to players and pretending this defense was any good through the past two years.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:07 am
Joe clinging to players and pretending this defense was any good through the past two years.
Past 2 years joe… maybe you have been hanging with Tanard, my man… short term memory issues are awesome when you follow the bucs…. the defense has sucked ARSE since Sapp walked out the door and their last meaningful win…. How many playoff wins do they have without sapp again???? he carried those fools you call legends.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:18 am
100 percent agree.
Just need one good pick on a offensive lineman as well
February 11th, 2019 at 10:31 am
“he carried those fools you call legends.”
———–
Anyone who agrees with maxipad’s rants, I just want you to read this one more time, and understand that you are agreeing with someone who actually believes nonsense like this. Yeah, because guys like Ronde, Brooks, and Lynch were all trash, but made into great players because of Sapp. In fact, Alstott was only able to run the ball because of Sapp as well. I’m pretty sure he’s also the reason Lee Roy Selmon is in the Hall of Fame. I’ve also heard that he is directly responsible for the Patriots dynasty, as well as the reason Durant went to Golden State. This guy is a complete tool, and if you agree with anything he says, you are also a tool.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:31 am
If Q.Williams, Bosa or J.Allen aren’t available at #5 …Trade Down!!!
February 11th, 2019 at 10:34 am
Our roster holes scream “TRADE DOWN”……..
February 11th, 2019 at 10:37 am
Cut…cut…CUT!
GMC, DJax, Brate, Gholston, Curry, Unrein, Anger, Doston and Benenoch. At a minimum. Approximately $54 million freed up.(Not going to split foolish hairs on exact penny). WE CAN easily fit thru 2nd phase of FA, draft, and cuts down to 53 man roster after draft, fulfill the proper players that BA and company feel we need in SOME of those opened positions. MUCH cheaper and younger.
If desired, can re-sign Brate in 3rd phase of FA before camp if physical matches up at much reduced rate on 2 year (1+ option) incentive laden, active roster deal.
Kareem Hunt and Landon Collins need to be priority additions, Hunt before Collins.
Let DLine additions come to us in the way the draft plays out.
Go Bucs!
February 11th, 2019 at 10:37 am
Imagine if the bucs had a gm & scouting dept that compared Vita Vea to the historic 2019 DL draft class and then said, “Hey lets grab Derwin James in 2018, because in 2019 we can get 15 players better than Vea” But a 5 wing GM makes 5 win moves
February 11th, 2019 at 10:39 am
I also like the idea of trading down. But instead of a DE I would go after OL or CB.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:40 am
And….THAT’S NOT …a “rebuild”. A re-load.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:46 am
@ Duthsty,
That would make too much sense, could’ve drafted James and still went after Maurice Hurst from Michigan last year, last years defensive line group wasn’t bad either.
February 11th, 2019 at 10:59 am
Every time I see Will Gholston’s name I wonder how he’s still on this football team. I believe at the time I heard the justification as “the best run-stuffing DE”?!
Why? Why have we held on to this guy? Better yet, why did we pay him so much money to begin with? At least we got SOMETHING out of Curry.
February 11th, 2019 at 11:02 am
My offseason wish list would (this is without knowing the true direction the defense is going). This is based on a 4-3 primary alignment
RD 1: (try to trade down jaguars) Dexter Lawrence; DT- Clemson; Jeffery Simmons, DT Mississippi State; Quinnen Williams, DT Alabama; Christian Wilkins, DT Clemson; Ed Oliver, DT Houston.
RD 2: (JAX) LJ Scott; RB-Michigan State
RD 2: Yodny Cajuste; OT-West Virginia
RD 3: (JAX) Joejuan Williams; CB-Vanderbilt
RD 3: Michael Dieters; G-Wisconsin
RD 4: Jamal Peters; CB-Mississippi St
RD 5: Charles Omenihu; DE-Texas
RD 6: Jack Bailey; P-Stanford
DeMarcus Lawerence-DE
Morris Claiborne-CB
Tyrann Mathieu-CB/S
DJ Fluker-RG
February 11th, 2019 at 11:21 am
I’d prefer Devin White @ the Bucs #1.
This LB corp is horrible, with only David a true great player. You cannot count on either Alexander or Beckwith to be what they were before injury.
February 11th, 2019 at 11:24 am
Since we are dreaming…it is possible the Bucs trade down twice in the first round and still end up picking around 15 +- and then have something like 3 second round picks….that would be the making of a strong foundation
February 11th, 2019 at 11:43 am
I always feel intellectually inferior when I read the great replies on JBF. Still trying to figure out what a 5 wing GM is.
February 11th, 2019 at 11:51 am
There are only 3-5 consensus picks at the top in the mock drafts I’ve seen and compared.
This means a lot of good players are getting pushed into later rounds. There is a ton of potential in those rounds so I agree with those who wish to trade down if we can get the right deal from a QB hungry team.
@Hawaiian
I completely understand your rant. But I’m practicing my Zen right now. Just imagine what it’s like to be in his head. It can’t be pleasant.
February 11th, 2019 at 11:56 am
I’m with StoutAngel on this one, although not QUITE as drastic. Cut DJax (save $10.0 mil), Gholston ($3.75 mil), Unrein ($2.75 mil), Anger ($3.0 mil), Dotson ($4.68 mil) and Benenoch ($2.0 mil) … $26.2 saved. I’d also cut Spence ($1.27 saved) and a host of players like Stevie T, Cichy & Bulloughs who eat up CAP space but really have no future on this team (something about staying healthy?). Then renegotiate GMC’s contract (to $8 mil max, saving $5.0 mil) & Curry’s contract (to $4 mil max saving $4 mil). That combination would save us $35 mil, plus the roughly $15 mil we now have (trying to be optimistic) to give us $50 mil total to play with.
The key IMO is to ‘fix’ as much as we can in free agency with quality players so that we don’t NEED EVERYTHING in the draft. I think that franchising Donovan & re-signing Hump, Griffin, Taylor, Lynch, Minter, Wester, Liedtke should be our first priorities, as well as tendering Barber & Adams. That’ll probably cost us between $30 – $35 mil right there. Taking out what we’ll need to sign our rookies would only leave us maybe $10 mil or so to sign a veteran OLineman, veteran RB, veteran MLB & a veteran CB in free agency. Damn, we’re screwed. (Nah, just need a little more creativity in opening up CAP space).
February 11th, 2019 at 11:56 am
So quick question…when do teams start to cut their players? Is this something that happens before free agency begins?
Also, I thought I read somewhere that being above the cap doesn’t matter now or in the near future, it matters prior to preseason. Am I wrong here? Likely…but would love to be educated on timing.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:13 pm
cut some, restructure a few….trade down and select:
DT/DE-ed oliver-R1….
DE-zach allen R2….
DT/DE-I.buggs-R2
OL-chuma edoga-R3
OL-tytus howard-R3
RB-devin singletary or d.Henderson-R4
OL-Martez Ivey-R5
BPA- DB-R6
sign frank clark in FA….
that all goes down the drain if q.williams is there @ #5…..lol….
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
February 11th, 2019 at 12:16 pm
@Defense Rules…
Well, the StoutGospel…says at least you’re being very sensible and seeing my side of things, true-dat! Stout-Gospel.
One thing though, the issue or thing with your “restructure” (pay cut) principle for GMC and Curry is this…..the player’s agent (player) will not meet the club halfway going from $13 to $8 for GMC and $8 to $4 million for Curry, WHEN…the agent will insist on the player’s outright release, SO THAT they player can test the market hopefully at the beginning of FA to see what starting roles are out there, which will then give the player (and agent) the best chance to start again and maximize their value in 2019 and likely 2020+.
That’s the issue with restructuring. I know why you wrote it, it’s hopeful and advantageous from the Bucs’ perspective–to some degree–but both players’ agents will mandate their outright release…FIRST. For sure. Cuz they’ll get more on the open market and control those contracts, location.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:17 pm
Trade McCoy and the Bucs 5 pick to the Jets to move up to 3.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:20 pm
Josh Allen will be sitting there at #4 after the Jets trade out. Screw the trade down nonsense. Trade up one spot get Allen and gimme an elite Passrusher for our Defense.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:27 pm
Todd you are right. The CAP number is irrelevant for quite a few months. They may have to meet CAP requirements before Training Camp like you said or it might be before the start of the season, I’m not sure which.
Also they may start cutting players anytime. Not sure if it is official but there’s already a few players who have been informed they will not be resigned for 2019. Matt Bryant and Lupati(the G from Arizona) are two examples. These players can’t be signed with new team til free agency opens which is sometime in the 1st two weeks of March.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:27 pm
Pass and pass. Trade down is fine, but the target then should be Ed Oliver. That guy has stud 3-4 DE written alllllllllllover him. Like a bigger, faster jj watt. I’m for that move, and then hope and pray we get lucky and that Simmons kid falls in the second, poof. 2 stud DLmen.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:31 pm
Trade down and possibly miss out on a top talent so we can have extra picks to take the next Ronald Jones, MJ Stewart, and Alex Cappa? Nah.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:33 pm
@jimmyjack
Thanks. After posting, I Googled for an answer. Seems the magic timing related to the cap is right before the season begins.
February 11th, 2019 at 12:53 pm
StoutGOSPEL … LOL (was reading a review of ‘Alita, Battle Angel’ when I commented … I guess ANGEL stuck in my head). Pardonnez moi s’il vous plait.
Good point about the agents, but I tend to think that GMC would prefer to finish out his career here. His present contract runs through 2021 & surely he knows the Bucs won’t be paying him $13 mil a season til then. I think he’d restructure for say $8 mil a season for 3 years IF fewer snaps per season was part of the deal (and it should be IMO). Curry is a different situation. Neither he nor Gholston were very impressive last year (both got well less than 50% of the defensive snaps). JPP & Nassib carried the load, and they probably will this next year too. If Curry doesn’t want to play for $4 mil, then hey, Bye Bye.
February 11th, 2019 at 1:35 pm
That’s what people thought last year when the Bucs wound up with four picks in the first two rounds.
Whoops.
February 11th, 2019 at 1:36 pm
I’ve never understood why Bucs fans care if the Glazers waste their own money. They’re billionaires.
Second, cutting GMC would create a massive hole in an already questionable defensive line. I’m fine drafting guys around him, but cutting ties in pure stupid anger to save a few bucks is insane
February 11th, 2019 at 2:00 pm
JP_09…Veeery unlikely DE Charles Omenihu will last till the fifth round. He could be a steal for us in the fourth.
Joe in Michigan…You just mentioned three rookies that weren’t used correctly and had no good coaching staff what so ever. Koetter’s stubbornness leaving the rotating door in all year instead of giving Cappa any good reps. Mike Smith’s scheme that almost put us in the record books as worst in history having Stewart, a man corner, play 10 yards back. RoJo might be a bust, but that’s also why I don’t want to get another RB in the early rounds like so many others. Resign PB and with a good oline he’s a 1,000+ yard RB (871 yrds in 2018) Get a proven RB in FA that won’t break the bank to split snaps with PB. We also need to make oline moves in FA and not just the draft. One of the splash moves depending on our eventual cap space should be LT and I AIN’T talking about giving D. Smith a 4-5 year deal.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:04 pm
Hawaiian for real like the only star we ever had was sapp smdh. We might not have many but we have several n that defense from the 90s n early 00s was always in the top 10 mostly top 5 with a few in first but yeah max it was all sapp gtfoh🤦♂️🤷♂️😂
February 11th, 2019 at 2:15 pm
You know, the Bucs are not as bad off as it seems cap-wise. Multiple contracts had hard to reach milestones that were never met, and those will free up cap space as well.
And we can free up a lot more than that:
• DE Vinny Curry. SAVED: $8,000,000
• DE William Gholston. SAVED: $3,750,000
• DE Mitch Unrein. SAVED: $3,750,000
• DE Noah Spence. SAVED: $1,273,132
• DT Beau Allen. SAVED: $5,000,000
• DT Stevie Tu’ikolovatu. SAVED: $735,000
• RT Demar Dotson. SAVED: $4,803,125
• WR DeSean Jackson (Trade to worse team possible). SAVED: $10,000,000
• DT Gerald McCoy. (Trade or Restructure or both) SAVED: $13,000,000
• OLB Lavonte David. (Trade or Restructure) SAVED: $9,750,000
Total Saved: $60,061,257
February 11th, 2019 at 2:20 pm
Joe Says:
“That’s what people thought last year when the Bucs wound up with four picks in the first two rounds.
Whoops.”
I hate that you seem to write off those players after one season.
We know Vea is going to be good. Davis is looking very good. Rojo is up in the air, but Stewart looked great in training camp because he was playing press coverage in camp…he looked bad in the season because he wasn’t. So I don’t know why you don’t think this coach cannot get the most out of those players.
Sometimes you sound like these fans who expect all players to be elite during their first season, and if they have to be developed they are busts.
Ronde Barber needed more than one season, as I recall…so I suppose that was a bad draft pick.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:21 pm
I’ve always thought Licht has been a great scout. Bucs fans love to constantly b!tch about his two major busts in Aguayo and RoJo (who’s not even considered to be one yet), but never about all the great talent he’s brought in that has never had good coaching. I think him and Bowels sitting down to figure out FA and draft moves, and sh!t could get serious on the defensive side of the ball.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:21 pm
Heck, even the great Warren Sapp needed a season. He started his first four games, and was so bad he got demoted to backup for the next eight games.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:23 pm
@SOEbuc
I agree. And I think that some of the players Joe (2) seems to have written off are going to turn out okay once these coaches get done with them.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:23 pm
“Very good”?????????????????
Guess you and Joe have different standards of “very good.” For Joe, that would be making a Pro Bowl or better. Davis looked OK for a rookie. Nothing more. Joe didn’t see anything from the guy that would make Joe think he’s the next Darrelle Revis.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:32 pm
Duthsty Rhothdes Says:
February 11th, 2019 at 10:37 am
Imagine if the bucs had a gm & scouting dept that compared Vita Vea to the historic 2019 DL draft class and then said, “Hey lets grab Derwin James in 2018, because in 2019 we can get 15 players better than Vea” But a 5 wing GM makes 5 win moves
I was thinking what you posted last year.
The Bucs can substantially improve their defensive backfield by drafting Derwin and then take advantage of the deep defensive line draft of 2019.
I hope Vea turns into a great player, but Derwin already is one and clearly was the pick the Bucs should’ve made.
February 11th, 2019 at 2:53 pm
Joe
Me always letting you know what I would think are articles I’d be interested in. We have a GIGANTIC HOLE at outside CB. VH3 cannot be depended on health wise and he was playing much better playing the nickel last year for the short time he played. Bowels is also well known to like taller, bigger CBs on the outside and VH3 is coming in at 5’11” 204 lbs. We know the fact that we need to stack the trenches on both sides of the ball, but just throwing out info to you this JBF fan would like to hear more about.
February 11th, 2019 at 3:45 pm
Funny @ DR…funny!
For the slow and impaired (few) out there talking about whether or not a CAP figure matters or not by a certain point…..IS NOT THE M-Fing POINT. The point…is effective change. AND BY CUTTING those veterans at those established positions with those higher salaries, we not only gain clarity immediately where BA and company will be stressing their changes, and the seriousness of BA wanting to “win now”, but we also indirectly put out word to the league and free agents (and their agents) that we are SERIOUS about making needed changes at a few positions ….IN 2019!
There is NO one…not even GMC (foolishly likely discussed in the stands at the Combine in 3 weeks(?!?)…on our roster currently that will seriously garner a real trade offer with real return of equality (not DJax), with their contract currently as it stands. Not one! Other than perhaps JPP, much longer discussion and don’t think Bowles and BA are gonna let him go.
Those GM’s will simply wait for us to cut them, eventually.
This will NOT BE a roster, simply re-coached by this new personnel, to 6 more wins. Hell NO!
Great start by Licht…..keep sittin’ there kickin’ it!
February 11th, 2019 at 4:35 pm
When the hell are people gonna let go of the Derwin James BS? It’s like the Sopranoes. It’s over. True Bucs fans are still happy we got a powerful young DT with high potential.
February 11th, 2019 at 11:18 pm
Bye bye to every one of those guys would be wonderful!!!! We also should trade with the Dolphins our 5th pick and take their thirteenth pick and their second round pic! You know they want kyler Murray!
February 11th, 2019 at 11:38 pm
I get everyone wants to trade down, and Id usually agree, but let’s not forget the same brain children that we’re making our picks the last 4 years, are the same ones that will be picking this draft.
I still shake my head at MJ Stewart, not to mention his being picked ahead of Carlton Davis. This regime is laced with head-scratching picks in the past… we can just pray that BA is in the draft room this year.
February 12th, 2019 at 7:11 am
Soe buc
Exacrly. If he lasts past the 3rd ill be shocked. Every time i see a 7 round mock by someone in comments it looks good….until i see someone going in the 5th, 6th, or 7th that wont make it past the 3rd, possibly 2nd. Theres 32 teams with 32 big boards. I saw Martez Ivey just go in the 5th i think. Some football people think he is the top rated guard. I love mock drafts but cant seem to get into any past 3 rounds because of this reason.