The Arians-Monken Clash & Jameis Winston’s Bad Mechanics
February 14th, 2019
Back in November, when howls about shoddy mechanics from the arms and feet of America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, were a popular topic, then-Bucs offensive coordinator Todd Monken said he wasn’t seeing it.
You can flash back to Monken’s words here.
Was Monken being honest?
Hours prior to Monken’s take came former Bucs and Patriots QB Jeff Carlson explaining Jameis’ feet are all screwed up and the Monken-Dirk Koetter offense was a bad fit for him. Carlson has been privately coaching QBs since leaving the NFL. And Carlson wasn’t the only expert saying this.
And now comes new head coach Bucco Bruce Arians basically telling TampaBay.com that Carlson is on the money.
“I’ve studied a bunch of [Jameis’ throws],’’ Arians said. “[QB Coach] Clyde [Christiansen] has watched every throw he’s made since his rookie year and Byron [Leftwich], too. And it’s like you’re trying to look safeties off too long and your feet are crossed. So much of it is mechanical.’’
So here are the money questions: Is Arians dealing with a franchise QB who isn’t very coachable? Or is Jameis “coachable” but just not getting it? Or was Jameis being poorly coached by a combination of his private QB coach, Koetter, Monken and ex-Bucs QB coach Mike Bajakian? Or, was Jameis well coached but too stuck in bad habits to eliminate them completely?
Those answers won’t be coming for a while.
Obviously, Jameis has had plenty of strong games and does a lot of things very well. But winning from the quarterback position is about consistency, and Jameis has been horrible in that key area.
As for Arians calling out Jameis’ bad mechanics publicly, Joe is certain that’s a calculated plan to get in Jameis’ head. It’s also a convenient way for Arians to say Jameis was broken when Arians got here.
Man, if Koetter said that about Jameis’ mechanics, a thousand Jameis apologists would have lined up to say Koetter threw Jameis under the bus. Those types also would explain why Koetter didn’t have Jameis’ back, therefore Jameis can’t succeed.
Joe just hopes the bad mechanics Arians is seeing become simple fixes.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:07 am
Throw in jimbo fisher , his high school coach and peewee football coach as well …
February 14th, 2019 at 8:08 am
If Arians is right…..we will see an improved Jameis Winston…..and if Arians is not right we need to see and improved Winston.
BUT…….Give the kid a running game and the team a defense it deserves before completely holding JW responsible for the losing.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:10 am
If Jameis can’t work out that he needs to listen to coaches, well, he is uncoachable. Having said that, I don’t think he has had coaching like he is going to be barraged with this spring. Bajakian? C,mon man!!!!!
The time is now!!!!
February 14th, 2019 at 8:14 am
Sometimes i kinda wish Joe would judge Winston with the same harsh light he judges others on this team (Kwon Alexander comes to mind).
February 14th, 2019 at 8:25 am
WHAT?!!
Last year when I laughed at JW pushing trucks around for his “training” I caught a lot of flak here.
“Oh, Jameis is working so hard” Blah, blah, blah.
My point was…how about working hard on the crap that really matters, like your foot work and mechanics – as BA has now pointed out.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:26 am
@Coach Arians … “And it’s like you’re trying to look safeties off too long and your feet are crossed. So much of it is mechanical.’’ Would really be interesting to find out from BA how much of Jameis’ issues are mechanical & how much is between-the-ears. “Feet crossed”? I can buy into mechanical on that one. But BA’s comment that Jameis is “trying to look safeties off too long” DOESN’T sound to me like it’s mechanical.
In the end it won’t matter though. This staff will either ‘fix Jameis’ and he’ll get a nice contract OR we’ll be looking for a new QB next year. And there are several good ones coming up in 2020. A win-win situation? Only in Bucsville.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:27 am
No question about the bad mechanics but I don’t know how many safeties he’s “looked off” …he’s staring at his first option most of the time, leading to picks…Leftwich had a notoriously long windup, like WinSTUNNED, and he’s going to be the one to fix that?
February 14th, 2019 at 8:28 am
This question applies to so many players on this roster? Is it the player or the coaching… with Arians and his staff we won’t have that question this year.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:34 am
I can say this with full confidence…..Jameis was definitely coached to dump the ball off to the RB and he simply doesn’t do it. Quiz Rodgers had 130+ catches in 3 yrs as a back up RB in Atlanta in Koetters system. Quiz was in on nearly every third down this past year and played as a starter in previous yrs filling in at times. He had maybe 40 catches in 3 yrs here. That’s your QB….for whatever reason he insist on pushing the ball down field even when its simply not there.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:37 am
Accuracy begins with footwork….step and throw….Pop Warner…Little League coaching….something he has been coached to do at every level….but here we are. In the Play Off’s one of the talking heads mentioned how much Drew Brees works on precise footwork and mechanics on EVERY throw in practice EVERY throw…muscle memory when the shi** hits the fan game time….Jameis is as Jameis does…good luck Arians and Leftwhich …the photo in the header of this story is a perfect example….depressing
February 14th, 2019 at 8:42 am
BA is building the “I had to bench him” case against JW. Sanity will soon return!
February 14th, 2019 at 8:51 am
hfxbuc
i agree….
many of the players on the roster have been coaches poorly…..winston is just a victim of not being developed by a coaching staff that was in over their heads….
with experienced and competent coaches running the show, we’ll see an improvement from a number of players on both sides of the ball…..
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
February 14th, 2019 at 8:52 am
Bobby it’s hard for a competitive person to dump off to the RB when your team is down by 20 in the first half. Listen to all the real experts when they talk about a QB playing hero ball. We’re not a complete team by a long shot. IMO Jameis had one horrible game against Cincinnati, but after that played competitively after his benching. It’s a team sport fellas it’s not a QB sport, look at Aaron Rodgers most talented QB probably in history but yet only has 1 ring.
February 14th, 2019 at 8:58 am
@Defense Rules, Bruce Blahak, and Bobby M.:
Nice posts! +1+1+1
tickrdr
February 14th, 2019 at 8:59 am
Steve,
I wish someone from the Bucs organization would request that Jameis stops working with that private trainer who has done him no good. Any moron with a brain can see he has terrible mechanics, I can tell as soon as he releases the ball that it’s going to be way off of an interception. How refreshing is it that we finally have a coach that keeps its real. If he can’t fix Jameis then no one can in my opinion. I think all of Dirks assistants were over there heads and not good teachers with exception of Monken, Duffner, and Our Dline coach.
February 14th, 2019 at 9:11 am
I think Jameis’s bad mechanics are a product of our bad Defense, just like his turnovers.
February 14th, 2019 at 9:11 am
I don’t think he’s coachable or if he is when he panics he falls into bad habits
We always hear him say
“I gotta protect the ball better”
“I can’t do that”
But not much changes
Coaches can coach but the players need to apply what they are being taught
February 14th, 2019 at 9:31 am
Hey joes I believe this conversation did come up in a question asked to the quarterbacks coach by you and bajakian said something to the effect of they preferred not to screw with the mechanics of Winston sort of thinking they would make it worse. So we already know the Koetter staff didn’t coach quarterback mechanics and why they wasted all that time on Ryan Griffin because you would have to actively try to coach up any Rookie quarterback you drafted. What a crap show Dirk Koetter era was. Lovie, Schiano and Raheem all have the excuse of no talent compared to dirk and Winston may not be what everyone likes but he is better than any quarterback we’ve had since brad Johnson
February 14th, 2019 at 9:38 am
If this is true then Koetter, Monken and Bajakian all need to be fired from their prospective jobs.
February 14th, 2019 at 9:39 am
Oh and good luck Baker Mayfield I hope your mechanics or sound or they never will be.
February 14th, 2019 at 9:45 am
Carson Palmer played for USC and Pete Carroll, so he knows about good coaches.
He is very high on the Bucs, now that Coach Arians is here.
I think Tampa is gonna see a totally different team next year.
February 14th, 2019 at 10:24 am
This combined with JW saying he may have tuned out coaches is a huge red flag. . . I hope Im wrong and have just misread these signs
February 14th, 2019 at 10:32 am
I’m surprised Tmax has not blamed his bad mechanics on Gerald McCoy aka his favorite word on this post to use :
Cancer93
February 14th, 2019 at 10:38 am
@AkickintheBucNuts
Thats a good call out. Good on jameis for wanting to improve his athletic shape.
But look at TB12. He does not really have the “typical” body of an athlete. He is training the things that will make him better at his position.
If someone can focus Jameis’ insane work ethic to the right areas that he can really improve. Prioritize that time. Mobility in the pocket is great, but focus on mechanics, footwork, accuracy, and finally if you have time, focus on strength
February 14th, 2019 at 11:44 am
Physical “mechanics” are closely tied to the cerebellum; what is upstairs, between the ears!
February 14th, 2019 at 11:53 am
50,000 coaches have watched Jameis film- Check
20-30 coaches have coached Jameis Winston on mechanics- Check
10 coaches were vomiting at night watching Jameis same mistakes- Check
Koetter getting hired 2 minutes after firing- PRICELESS.
But yeah, it’s still the coaches, keep blaming the coaches.
February 14th, 2019 at 12:37 pm
Jameis defenders always in full effect. Dont hold the man accountable for anything. If you need a great coach, and a great defense, and a great running game, and great weapons, and blocking…. then its not you… its everyone else.
February 14th, 2019 at 12:49 pm
@MHBuc1
Atlanta (who “struggled mightily” in the RedZone) hiring Koetter who “struggles Mightily” in the RedZone – PRICELESS.
*See 500+ yards & 3pts vs. Redskins (The I’m taking Play-calling Back game)
February 14th, 2019 at 12:54 pm
@Dubcity
So why Proclaim Jared Goff the second coming when he gets “All of the Above” then goes from 8-8, to playoffs, to superbowl???
But yeah it does’nt matter…. Carry On…smh
February 14th, 2019 at 12:58 pm
@MHBuc1
Watching Atlanta(who “struggled mightily” in the redzone) hire Koetter who “struggles mightily” in the redzone – PRICELESS.
*see 500+yds & only 3 POINTS vs Redskins
(the I’m taking play-calling back game)
You guys are hilarious!!
February 14th, 2019 at 1:05 pm
As a rookie Winston appeared to have the necessary talent, smarts and intangibles to succeed in the NFL. Four years later after seeing the lack of progress I can only conclude that coaching was the real problem.
Only one voice should be in Winston’s ear, that of Clyde Christensen. For the most part Arians and Leftwich should channel all training though Christensen. His personal offseason program should also be under the same overall guidance.
February 14th, 2019 at 1:13 pm
““I don’t think so,” Monken responded when Joe asked if something happened to Jameis during his suspension or if his mechanics are messed up. “That’s hard to say. You would have to ask him. I don’t see that. I don’t see those things in practice where you are anticipating what we’ve seen otherwise we wouldn’t have put so much on him, offensively.” Monken.
The answer is right here, Joe. If Monken thinks there is nothing wrong with Jameis” mechanics and “real” QB gurus say there is something wrong, isn’t that a dead giveaway as to why Jameis has not improved much since his arrival in Tampa? I’m crunk because I see great potential being realized, not only by Jameis but by the whole team.
February 14th, 2019 at 1:15 pm
Grt1 Says:
February 14th, 2019 at 8:52 am
Bobby it’s hard for a competitive person to dump off to the RB when your team is down by 20 in the first half…………
———————————————————————————-
As I look at the box scores from 2018, the Bucs were down big in the first half of only a few games. And most of those were Ryan Fitzpatrick starts:
vs. Pittsburgh
vs. Chicago
vs. Carolina (1st game)
and yes vs. Cinncinnati, however Jameis threw INTs to end two of the first three Buc drives that game.
Maybe the Fitz fans should complain about the lack of support from the defense?
tickrdr
February 14th, 2019 at 1:25 pm
Relationships are like farting. If you push to hard, things could get messy real quick.
February 14th, 2019 at 2:03 pm
Take a look at how poorly the rest of the team around him did and its very logical to think that lack of coaching had a lot to do with it. Amazing what an unbias set of eyes can see.
February 14th, 2019 at 2:09 pm
Jameis Winston has never crapped his pants on the field. That would be Adam Bumphries fumbling away the game in Buffalo in 2017 and all of the kickers soiling the field with their crappy performances. Take away all the players pooping the bed, and Jameis’ has an impressive win loss record. Side note, it would seem a likely that MeJax ran off the field early in the home win because he made a mess of his pants.
February 14th, 2019 at 3:29 pm
Jameis crapped his pants a lot as a Buc
2018
Bengals
Saints
Ravens
2017
Vikings
@Saints
2016
Cardinals
Broncos
Raiders
Cowboys
2015 offseason when he hassled an Uber Driver
Titans
Panthers
Texans
Giants
Bears
Stop acting like he’s anything but a below average qb with teases of playing like a top 15 qb
February 14th, 2019 at 3:50 pm
Fix the OLine – fix the running game – fix the DEFENSE – fix the special teams
THEN – MAYBE you could start thinking about how to improve Winston’s “mechanics”….
Does anyone really think this team hasn’t been winning because of Winston? – or because of his “bad mechanics”??
That line of thinking is a joke right?
February 14th, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Loyaltotheend it seems you forget Winston only had one season with a better than average running game and he went 9-7 that year. Beyond that Koetter and Licht forgot running the ball mattered.
February 14th, 2019 at 4:44 pm
Nothing but excuses.
February 14th, 2019 at 5:05 pm
No running game an excuse? Lol you might have needed to watch the playoffs where running the ball was the key to victory for the Pats.
February 14th, 2019 at 5:12 pm
Just so we are clear all the Jameis naysayers now need to side with Koetter and that “If i knew the problem I would fix it” was the best answer he could give. I am siding with Arians that Jameis is coachable with someone who believes in him is we we need and not with a “I wanted Mariotta” mentality. I believe in Bruce Arians 100 times more than whatever Dirk Koetter did and his 3 point 500 yard offense output was a great example. Time will tell…..
February 14th, 2019 at 5:32 pm
Bad mechanics?….Pep Boys?
February 14th, 2019 at 6:26 pm
@Nick2
The 9-7 year the run game wasn’t good. His rookie year they had a great run game and won 6 games…
If your qb needs a top 10 run game and d to win then he’s not a franchise qb
February 14th, 2019 at 6:29 pm
If I am not mistaken Jameis entered the NFL under the past regime, whose responsibility was to prepare him to succeed. The same group who have blown threw good kickers, and running backs.
So now years later let’s say Jameis is uncoachable…SMH…timw will tell!
February 14th, 2019 at 7:52 pm
Yeah same group may have blown the 1st overall pick on a QB .
February 14th, 2019 at 8:19 pm
If your qb needs a top 10 run game and d to win then he’s not a franchise qb
——–
Completely reaching to get your point across. Nobody is saying we need a top 10 anything. There are just a handful of QBs in history that can win games all by themselves. If that is what a franchise QB is to you, then we will probably never have one of those. Most QBs, even most of the best QBs need help.
February 15th, 2019 at 10:18 am
WAIT! Are you admitting Winston has bad mechanics?
Fans have only been saying that he has bad mechanics while the fan boys have been defending him every chance they get. I’m glad you have seen the light.