The Great Jameis Debate
December 26th, 2018
BY IRA KAUFMAN
More than a quarter-century has passed in Buccaneer lore since the franchise dealt with a player as polarizing as Jameis Winston.
In his day, Doug Williams generated heated debate among Buc supporters regarding his worth under center. Skeptics pointed to his career completion rate — well south of 50 percent — as evidence that the Bucs could do better.
There was also the matter of his skin color. At that time, black quarterbacks had not been given many opportunities to prove themselves as winners. 
Others argued that Williams joined a comical third-year franchise in 1978 and promptly led Tampa Bay to three postseason berths in five seasons.
Ultimately, the Bucs didn’t want to pay Williams what he felt he was worth, so he left town and put a curse on the franchise he left behind.
Williams bounced around and ultimately went on to glory with the 1987 Redskins, capped by a majestic Super Bowl victory that opened the locker room door for other black quarterbacks … like Jameis Winston.
It’s Complicated
What former Buc owner Hugh Culverhouse failed to realize was how much Williams meant to his teammates on both sides of the ball. If the game was close, they believed, Williams was going to find a path to victory.
Williams wasn’t about statistics, he was about winning.
Now we come to the strange case of Mr. Winston, whose career passing statistics look impressive on the surface as he heads into Sunday’s season finale against Atlanta.
Yet unlike Williams, Winston has yet to show he’s a winner through his first four pro seasons.
Winston arrived in Tampa under a cloud of controversy, beset by off-field issues that created doubt among some Buc fans well before he threw his first NFL pass.
The Uber incident and subsequent suspension confirmed those concerns for the Winston cynics who never wanted him in the first place. Sunday’s loss in Dallas dropped Winston to 3-5 on the season and 21-32 for his career. Those numbers suggest the Bucs would be wise to move on from the No. 1 overall pick in the 2015 draft.
But of course, it’s not that simple.
For the past three seasons, the Bucs haven’t run the ball effectively.
For the past two seasons, the defense stunk.
Crunch Time
From the bars in Ybor City to the trendy coffee shops in downtown St. Petersburg, the great debate on Winston’s future is in full swing His current head coach believes Winston is showing progress.
“I thought for the most part he made good decisions, so I think he’s improved there, definitely improved his accuracy, has improved protecting the football,” said Dirk Koetter. “I think Jameis has improved across the board. Our team has to improve on winning close games.”
Isn’t that what it’s all about?
When the game is on the line, Winston hasn’t made enough plays. Sounds simplistic, but that’s the job description for franchise quarterbacks. Find a way. Quarterbacks chosen atop the draft are supposed to find a way.
If they don’t, they find their way somewhere else.
Winston’s future in Tampa appears uncertain, but the tea leaves suggest he’ll be back. Ownership has final say and the Glazers stuck with Winston through his suspension.
If the Glazers had turned on Winston, he wouldn’t have started the last five games, risking injury and guaranteed money for 2019. He’s likely to have one final shot next year to prove himself a winner.
One last chance to go from polarizing to mesmerizing.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:11 pm
“Jameis needs a different HC, OC, QB coach with different modern scheme and playcalling to truly see if and if not he is a franchise QB
At 25 years old. Majority of the past QBs in NFL history were still in development stage
*that was the problem with the past mistakes by tampa in their evaluation concerning the qb position…
Are we trading him before he is fully developed? Are the play of the team the reason why he is not developing and not winning?”
Kobe Faker
December 26th, 2018 at 1:23 pm
This is the equivalent of Ira tossing a hand-grenade into the debate.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:27 pm
Well with Herbert staying at Oregon not really any stud QB in the draft.
Get Foles? Anybody think he could hold up with our line? I don’t.
I’d just like to get rid of this calm Jameis. I liked the fiery one.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:29 pm
With the passing game predominant in the NFL, let’s look at Jameis’ competition in the NFC South; Brees, Newton and Ryan. Jameis has athletic skills on a par with any of those three but he plays clearly in fourth place. Why? Well, he makes mistakes, over and over again, and seems not to learn from those mistakes. Yes, the lack of a running game contributes to that but Jameis makes mistakes that should not be seen in a fourth year QB. The decision the new coach and the Glazers need to make is to determine whether Jameis can improve or whether this is the best we can expect. After watching how first year QB’s played this year, the decision to go with a rookie next year gets much easier to live with.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:41 pm
Jameis will be the 18th highest paid QB next year. You could argue that he’s the 18th best QB in the league, so if we’re talking about value it doesn’t get much better than that. Winston might be the 18th best QB in the league, but he STILL has the potential to be better than that. So if you’re argument is that Winston isn’t worth 20.9M next year….you’re sorely mistaken.
Lets not lose sight of who the risk if really on next season if you’re looking at this from an owner perspective. The risk is all on Jameis for next season. Play well, get a big contract. Don’t play well, you’ll get lesser contract offers at other franchises for a likely #2 roll (possibly a starter). For the Glazers, you’re getting a cheap season from a potential franchise QB where if he fails, you just cut bait and move on….no strings attached. It’s also a bargaining chip for potential HC candidates.
If you want to get rid of him because of the money you don’t see the value in Jameis for, arguably,
December 26th, 2018 at 1:47 pm
Dwayne Haskins is the TOP QB in this draft hands down
He’s second to none
You can’t go wrong with him
December 26th, 2018 at 1:49 pm
Give JW a legit running back – not someone you HOPE will be good. Hope isn’t a plan.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:49 pm
Eric- I think the Bucs HAVE to be looking at the o-line at this point, regardless of the coach. Secondly, they MUST address the run-game. I have stated this many times, throwing the ball more than 35+ times a game is a recipe for disaster, especially for a QB prone to turnovers.
Drafting or signing a QB is a business decision, pure and simple. First, is Jameis “the guy”? Second, if he is the guy, you need a veteran back-up. Third, you always want a pipeline of players to develop.
There are answers to questions that the Bucs cannot answer. Will Jameis WANT to stay here? What if he suffers a serious injury? etc…
December 26th, 2018 at 1:51 pm
Ira or anyone else
Can you point to one example of a high draft pick that has a winning record with “For the past three seasons, the Bucs haven’t run the ball effectively.
For the past two seasons, the defense stunk”
I’m trying to figure out who has been successful in a similar situation. Or are you simply saying that it doesn’t matter. As a #1 pick he should have a winning record regardless of the defense or running game?
So who the bar? Andrew Luck? Nope! Marcus? Nope! Deshawn? Nope! Mahomes? Nope! Carr? He’s the closet but still nope. So who is the bar? Who are we measuring against? Or are we just measuring against our wildest imagination and a desperate desire to not suck?
December 26th, 2018 at 1:55 pm
Don’t let the age excuse fool you he has 55 games of experience should outweigh that silly notion. If after 55 games of experience he’s still inaccurate making bad decisions and turning the ball over no coach, no new offensive system, no improved o line or new RB is gonna fix all his issues.
Stop with the excuses and expect better from a #1 overall pick who was hailed as Pro Ready with a high football IQ when he was drafted
December 26th, 2018 at 1:56 pm
Hard pass on Haskins. He’s a System QB. He gets about 5-7 seconds to throw everytime he drops back. Things will change if he’s behind a Bucs O line.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
Even as a huge FSU fan that made a lot of money betting on that magical 2013 season, I never saw the vision of Winston being an NFL QB. How often does immaturity, inaccuracy, turnovers, terribly slow throwing mechanics, and ugly spirals translate to franchise QB? Size, football IQ, and rah rah leadership that college freshmen ate up clearly hasn’t been enough to make up for it at this level.
I also agreed with Ira when he said all offseason he’d be done with Winston if it was found he really did do something to the uber driver. Can’t trust handing the franchise to a guy that would do that, especially knowing he was on thin ice coming out of FSU and the fishiness of his staunch denial then walk back and apology.
Not interested in any Winston led Buc teams.
December 26th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
A lot of Bucs fans want Jim Harbaugh
But they don’t want the QB that went 6 TD, 0 INT against him
And knocked him out of the College Playoffs
December 26th, 2018 at 2:00 pm
Am I missing something?
December 26th, 2018 at 2:00 pm
Find a way. Quarterbacks chosen atop the draft are supposed to find a way.
Ira answer me this did Troy Aikmen find a way before he had a real coach and team around him? Did Steve Young find a way before he went to a franchise that actually had good coaching around him? Did Drew Brees find a way, before he went to a team that built around his skill set?
See this “find a way” no matter what talk is garbage. You need a team period no one ever has “found a way” by themselves in the history of this game. But let’s keep sitting around and blaming the QB for not “finding a way” when the entire house around him I’d on fire. Nice call sage.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:02 pm
And no on Foles, the guy can’t play in a Non Chip Skelly Offense. I’d rather have Flacco than Foles.
Be patient with Winston is a better offensive scheme and with better players around him. Things will take off.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:07 pm
Tbbucs3,
The Jacksonville Jaguars will probably draft Dwayne Haskins
I hope they draft him, he’s a better there than with Tampa
The Bucs will ruin him
December 26th, 2018 at 2:08 pm
LakeLand Says:
December 26th, 2018 at 2:00 pm
Am I missing something?
Yes Lakeland you’re missing the fact that Haskins isn’t going to be that good in the NFL. Hes a line drive thrower with little touch. He’s all fastball all the time, no bueno.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:08 pm
** better fit**
December 26th, 2018 at 2:14 pm
“Kobe disagrees with age being a non factor.
Just like EVERYTHING in life, practice and repetition is keys to learned behavior. There are bad habits and also good. Brady and most older QBs still go to their personnel coaches to relearn and focus on mechanics and their mental game
Kobe remembers the first time i was with a girl. I was scared to death and had no idea what to do. She said hurry up your half hour is almost up….
Look at me now”
Kobe Faker
December 26th, 2018 at 2:16 pm
no doubt winston has to play better…..
but how is a QB suppose to succeed without a run game and at least average defense?…..and coaching?…..
how many times in the past 2years has joe written an article about how well the adjustments worked in the second half of games?…..how many times has joe written about this staff out coaching the opponents?……how many times has joe written about how this staff created a good game plan to attack opponents?……how many times has joe written about a player(that isnt a pass catcher) that has developed by this staff?……
NONE!!!!!!
and thats the problem…..coaching…..as long as dirk has been in the NFL, its no reason why mitchell trubisty should be looking better than winston…..is nagy that much better than dirk?…..
#REALISTKNOWSNOTHING!!!…#ADIOSDIRK!!!…GO BUCS!!!!
December 26th, 2018 at 2:19 pm
Lol Kobe,
There some disturbing facts about the Bucs and their history of Quarterbacks. This fact is UNBELIEVABLE.
The Tampa Bay Buccaneers entered the NFL in 1976. Since then, the Bucs have drafted 25 quarterbacks. And they’ve never signed any of them to a second contract.
AMAZING
December 26th, 2018 at 2:22 pm
25 Quarterbacks,
Not one, not two, not three, not four
Twenty effing five Quarterbacks, and none of them worth a 2nd contract
Are you kidding me?
December 26th, 2018 at 2:27 pm
LakeLand Says:
“Am I missing something?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No sir, we just don’t need a QB.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:29 pm
Jameis will be the first.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:30 pm
Every single red flag that Winston had in college, both on and off the field, have followed him to the NFL.
In the NFL’s statement announcing Winston ‘s suspension they said that if he violates the league ‘s personal conduct policy once more that he probably face an indefinite suspension and we all know what that means. And with Winston it’s a matter of When, not if. The Glazers would be very foolish to put along their eggs in that risky basket.
On the field he has in no way lived up to that #1 overall pick in the draft.
At the end of his 4th year as a starter, he is still making rookie mistakes and showing very little if any of that high football IQ that the Buc’s PR department keeps telling us about. Bad decision making and confussion by coverages are quite evident. In the 4 years he has been in the league only Blake Bottles has committed more turnovers than Winston.
The main factor though is that Winston is not a winner in the NFL. There have been 3 straight close games that Winston had the chance to put the team on his back and win the game like the good QB’s do, but he could not. Maybe just didn’t know how to at this level.
There have been other contributing factors also such as the P-Line and the defense. However, it makes the O – Line look bad when the QB holds the ball too long. And that’s the same defense that has bailed Winston out many times following his numerous turnovers.
The Glazers hopefully know that if you keep doing what you are doing, you keep getting what you are getting.
Forcing Winston down another coach’s throat will just continue the losing. Time to draft a true franchise QB to build your team and future with, or sign Nick Fole. Cut Winston lose so he can go be another team’s backup.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:33 pm
@Kobe Faker
55 games and still has huge flaws in his game experience outweighs the promise of youth and getting better.
He might improve slightly but nowhere near what he needs to be considered a franchise qb
December 26th, 2018 at 2:46 pm
All these college QB prospects are sorry as hell compared to when Jameis was draft eligible. This really is a no brainer, Jameis will be back next year.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:51 pm
@Lakeland You really like Haskins over Will Grier from West Virginia?
December 26th, 2018 at 2:54 pm
Haskins holds the ball too long and Grier makes poor decisions.
December 26th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Ndog
Wow. You are describing Haskin as something different then Jameis. That description as fast ball with little touch.
Dude. That is Jameis 100%
December 26th, 2018 at 2:57 pm
Krojen
Thank you. One of the first FSU fans with an honest take. And not a homer “stop criticizing my man “ take.
With that said , I think Jameis will be back next year.
December 26th, 2018 at 3:11 pm
Fireeee Licht! Go to Hell Jameis Bashers!
December 26th, 2018 at 3:33 pm
None of the QBs coming out really impress me. I do like Kyler but who knows what he is goin to do.
I think this team has far too many holes to draft a QB rd 1. Now rd 2+ as a project QB might work.
Jameis is going to get one more year to show he can be a good QB. If ownership/management wants him to succeed, they will prioritize the run game and defensive line in this draft.
As a Bucs fan, I hope Jameis kills it next year and we are in the playoffs. If Jameis has a run game, a top half ranked defense, and still fails…. I will be ready to move on, but i don’t see that happening . Jameis has shown he can win 9 games AS A ROOKIE when he has a run game and halfway decent defense.
I can’t wait for next year!
December 26th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
Jameis just needs an off-season to clear his head with no off field issues or distractions and come back ready. The suspension really got to him this year. Give him 1 more year and if he’s bad or average get rid of him but there’s a good chance he will be great, depending on what the Glazers do.
December 26th, 2018 at 3:40 pm
Yes I do Afrika
It’s not even close
I like Haskins by a mile and half
December 26th, 2018 at 3:54 pm
So now we fire the coach. Possibly fire the GM, and then expect Winston to win in another prove it year with an entirely new system. Doesn’t make sense to me. If we’re gonna wipe the slate clean we should start totally clean and offer Winston up for trade. An unproven rookie QB would probably do better with a familiar college scheme than Jameis having to learn everything all over again. Not that he mastered Dirk’s playbook anyway after four seasons.
December 26th, 2018 at 3:55 pm
JayMiss needs a change of scenary and the Bucs need to continue searching for their franchise QB.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:07 pm
Great and Jameis should not be used in the same sentence. Wholesale changes need to happen.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:11 pm
How cool would it be if Ira and DB55 actually interacted with JBF commenters on their thread? Only for a short time of course, but it would be a very good thing for JBF.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:16 pm
BigMacAttack Says:
“Great and Jameis should not be used in the same sentence.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
A bit hypocrital, don’t you think, BigMac?
You just used both in the same sentence.
😉
December 26th, 2018 at 4:22 pm
Not one taker huh? Come on this should be easy since Winston sucks and apparently any or many QBs whether rookies or otherwise can do better.
Can ANYONE list just 1 QB who won games potentially led their team to the playoffs with the 28th ranked defense and 28th ranked unning game. Or how Ira puts it “For the past three seasons, the Bucs haven’t run the ball effectively.
For the past two seasons, the defense stunk.”
JUST ONE EXAMPLE
December 26th, 2018 at 4:29 pm
Is there any doubt that if we let Jameis go he will be gobbled up by William Stephan Belichick and turned into a super bowl winner.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:37 pm
Doug
Yeah Jameis should improve after sitting 5 years behind a 50 year old Tom Brady
December 26th, 2018 at 4:40 pm
Losing coaching and QB loss of game clock awareness stinks waftingly.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:40 pm
TBD, you’re about as sharp as a bowling ball.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:49 pm
Hopefully the Bucs will play Griffen the start this week. My complaint with Jameis is his accuracy passing. He’s rarely on the mark anymore and has regressed the last two seasons. Even when he has time, he is frequently off the mark. I’d trade Jameis if possible and play Griffen for a year until Tua or an better option is available in the Draft. I don’t think Jameis is the answer for the Bucs. For a guy with such a high Football IQ, it sure doesn’t show up on the field. If they keep him, I’ll still be a fan, but if they don’t keep him, I’m good with that too. He needs to grow up.
December 26th, 2018 at 4:57 pm
Yes good, BigMac, just trying to lighten the mood around here sometimes. The season has been depressing as F**K. Right?
I definitely do not think starting Ryan GRIFFIN (sp) for a year is the answer, but you are certainly entitled to your opinions.
December 26th, 2018 at 5:05 pm
Bird Says:
December 26th, 2018 at 2:55 pm
Ndog
Wow. You are describing Haskin as something different then Jameis. That description as fast ball with little touch.
Dude. That is Jameis 100%
Apparently you don’t know what throwing with touch is, so as usual you will be ignorged.
December 26th, 2018 at 5:07 pm
BigMac you must have got that idea from the paper store because it is tearable.
December 26th, 2018 at 5:15 pm
BrainBucs do you actually watch football? Just wondering cause many things you post makes it I look like you don’t know even know what type of offense we run. And what is this “put the team on his back” crap? Does that mean despite no oline, no running game, a horrible defense that can’t get off the field and a kicker that is in the late 20’s in quality you want the QB to win despite that? So like I have asked multiple times which QB have done that EVER IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE? I keep asking yet you keep not answering, I wonder why.
December 26th, 2018 at 5:20 pm
BigMacAttack Says:
December 26th, 2018 at 4:49 pm
Hopefully the Bucs will play Griffen the start this week. My complaint with Jameis is his accuracy passing. He’s rarely on the mark anymore and has regressed the last two seasons. Even when he has time, he is frequently off the mark.
See this is the stuff that is just bold face lying. So we will ignore the numbers that prove his completion % is better and has gotten better every year and that his coach just two days ago said he has definitely got better at his accuracy and decision making each year. So just like BrainBucs you comment behs the question, do you even watch the games?
December 26th, 2018 at 5:26 pm
Ndog don’t waste your time. Those who want him gone are not to be reasoned with, especially BrianBucs.
I have stated so many times how many records and feats Winston has accomplished in his young football career (with many to come). I doubt it has changed one mind on here. People have made up their minds about Jameis and refuse to be objective. Whatever, I just have to decided to just laugh at those who think he sucks or is going anywhere.
It has become glaringly obvious that their attention spans rival that of a cocker spaniel and they have forgotten the big picture and career of Jameis Winston.
They assume this season is a microcosm of Winston’s career and represents this year as his ceiling.
It is what it is.
I can’t wait for next year!
December 26th, 2018 at 5:41 pm
I’m not a JW fan, but I think it makes sense to bring him back next year and see what happens. Hopefully with a run game and better defense he can be better.
With that said, we need to draft players that will help us do that.
December 26th, 2018 at 5:59 pm
BrianBucs …told me he didn’t need to comment anymore on Jameis.
Told me months ago. Jameis will do his own self in with some soon to be off the field incident. So there was no need for HIM to worry Jameis.
Brian…we’re still waiting. The last incident was 3 years ago and we’re still waiting Brian.
Did you look at your MONSTER post above? There’s so much hate it’s going to REALLY piss you off, when they keep him around for another season.
I’m a Bucs fan and I want them to win as bad as everyone else does. I also want Winston gone from Tampa for his own good. He can’t prove the idiots wrong in this crap hole. he can leave and the Bucs will STILL suck.
get rid of him. Everyone will be here in 3 more years whining about the next QB and the losses that pile up. They can and will lose just fine with or without Jameis.
I just laugh at some of the craziness that gets put down in this section. Whine and complain. What did you do before the Bucs drafted Jameis Winston? Oh I know….whine and complain.
Makes no difference if he stays or goes.
December 26th, 2018 at 6:57 pm
Alaskan
Records? You mean plural? What records? Lol! Oh, you mean the Bucs all time passing TD list. Yes thank god Jameis passed up hall of famers like Josh Freeman and Vinny and Shaun King, it’s not like the kid was taken No.1 overall or something. Other than that, what other records are you referring to? What, the “starting off his career with 2 4,000 yard seasons” thing you Jameis lovers cling to life with?
I’m legitimately curious as to what monumental records Jameis Winston has broken.
December 26th, 2018 at 7:16 pm
-Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5
-Most passing touchdowns by a rookie quarterback in one half: 4
-Youngest player to pass for 3,000 yards: (21 years, 342 days) December 13, 2015
-Youngest player to pass for 4,000 yards: (21 years, 363 days) January 3, 2016
-Second youngest player to pass for 10,000 yards: (23 years, 303 days; 4 days older than Drew Bledsoe) November 5, 2017
-Youngest player to pass for 40 touchdowns: (22 years, 312 days) November 13, 2016
-Most seasons of passing for 4,000 yards to begin a career – 2 (2015–2016)
-Most touchdown passes before 24th birthday: 69 (23 years, 360 days) December 31, 2017
Thats not including the 15+ franchise records he holds AT AGE 24. The pro bowl or the fact he was robbed of a ROTY award.
If he doesn’t get hurt last year that 4,000 yard streak continues in ’17.
Walkdaplank your proved my point already he is the best QB in franchise history at the age of 24. It took us almost 40 years to find a QB of Jameis skill and you think he is just going to be easily replaceable? Let me get a drag of what you are smoking on.
I can’t wait for next year!
December 26th, 2018 at 7:35 pm
Jameis won the fan voted Pepsi Rookie of the Year, the only one that matters. The media went with the political choice in Gurley.
December 26th, 2018 at 7:36 pm
@Alaskan
He’s tied with other QBs for some of those records
The youngest records are meaningless as many QBs are still in college at 21
After 55 games he should be better. Experience should be helping him play better sick of the excuses for a former #1 overall pick
December 26th, 2018 at 7:45 pm
1987
I figured that as long as you, Ndog and a couple of the other Winston fanboys kept posting idiotic rants and moans and groans on here it would just not be fun to sit and watch when a true devoted Bucs fan that actually know something about football can bring some truth, logic and knowledge to the conversation. So as long as you group of fanboys keep keep spouting your mancrushes for Winston and not the Bucs I will be here to counteract your misguided loyalty to your overrated and fallen idol
December 26th, 2018 at 8:29 pm
But see BrianBucs the key difference between me and you is I present actual facts whereas you provide your opinion that is clearly driven through hate. And let’s clear a few things up. I am a Bucs fan first and foremost, secondly yes I wanted to draft Jameis, thirdly I want him to succeed and defend him not to be correct but because I 1000% believe he is not the problem. Is he perfect no, is he a finished product no, does he make the right play everytime no BUT with the crap team around him he, along with any other QB will not win. This team needs a real coaching staff with a balanced offense and a serviceable defense. Then if he doesn’t play well and we don’t win them let’s move on but to blame the QB when he has improved in every facet of his game is idiotic. He is not THE problem and in fact he is not a problem at all. He is actually one of the few things right with this team.
December 26th, 2018 at 8:49 pm
I think the real problem is every body wanted Jamies to act like a old white quarterback like Payton Manning. Let him be his self. Jamies need that fire back. He’s trying to please everyone and stead of being his self. So it seems like that’s been his problem right now . He is losing his mojo trying to be like every one wants him to be and that’s a old white guy .
December 26th, 2018 at 9:33 pm
Buc1987
Yeah, he only settled 2 suits with women for doing things against their will since he’s been a Buc, and the last offense was three whole years ago! How people judge those FACTS says a lot about someone doesn’t it? Amiiright?
Signed,
Football fans who know that it’s not all about football,
AND also fans who don’t fully get that, yet know that each player must play way way way above their cost to the self-respect and decency of the fan base to stay on a team.
December 26th, 2018 at 9:41 pm
Buc1987,
Two settlements with women for very bad behavior. Can’t we agree that’s at least one more than decent people should accept?
December 26th, 2018 at 9:56 pm
Ndog
I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here as I too am a Bucs fan first and want whats best for the team and will make them winners.
I did not want the Bucs to draft Winston because he looked to me like nothing more than a turnover machine and an NFL hot mess. Figured he would come here and be in trouble and get suspended and just be a huge distraction to the team. Also figured that he would be a coach killer by not living up to his overhyped potential and press. So far I was correct.
That all being said, I was hoping that Winston would prove me wrong and be the long term answer here. But nothing that I have seen in 4 years shows me that. Winston is not the total blame for the poor condition of this team and franchise. However he is a huge part of it. He could use a better O – Line and running game, but so could every QB.And the lack of talented players in those positions and on the defense falls directly on Jason Licht, but that’s another story.
We will continue to agree to disagree on the Winston issue, as you see him as a possible saviour and I see him as a possible failure. However we agree on many other things concerning the team and want the best for it. We will all just have to wait and see what happens.
Have a great evening my friend
December 26th, 2018 at 10:05 pm
Onielbucs
I agree with you!
I’m not a Winston fan and don’t think that he’s the answer here whatsoever.
BUT, I hate the way Koetter has him playing now. Like a robot, or Alex Smith. Acts like he is confused and timid. Concentrating way too hard on not turning the ball over.
Winston is at his best and worst when he’s playing with fire and gunslinging and playing loose. Obviously he has found out that he can’t get away with some of the things he did in college in the NFL . Good or bad, win or lose, they should let him be himself. Let him succeed or fail that way.
December 26th, 2018 at 10:50 pm
James is what he is which is…… The 23rd best QB in the NFL.
Its not bad by any stretch.
If i said to you guys we can you use the first pic in the draft on a QB and 4 years in he will be the 23rd best QB…. Would that be Good ? Okay? Bad? Pedestrian?
The realty is we down have a supporting cast around him to win anyway so lets just lay in the weeds and wait for the time we can get an upgrade.
December 26th, 2018 at 11:50 pm
Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Drew Brees, name your QB–but nobody would be able to take this football team to the Superbowl. Playoffs, maybe, but no SB.
There is too much amateurishness at the key positions of GM & HC. Too many draft picks have been squandered and the result is lack of talent on defense, along with marginal coaching. That is simply not a recipe to win SBs.
There is no question in my mind, that despite Winston’s flaws, his talents are more than sufficient to take a team to the Superbowl. He will need a coaching staff that can let him play to his strengths and not put him positions that magnify his flaws.
December 27th, 2018 at 12:02 am
Alaskan
I know this is a late reply but those stats are ridiculous man come on now!
You are cherry picking like a mf! I want to see Jameis put up numbers like “most passing TD’s in a single season” NOT “most passing TD’s in a single season by a 24 YEAR OLD”. Almost all of the “records” you brought up had to do with his age and not his overall talent compared to his peers. Because he doesn’t compare to his peers as an overall QB you had to break it down to a demographic which is sad and pathetic. If this were Jameis’ rookie year I would agree with you. However it is not his rookie year. He’s one game away from a full 4 years in the league and I want you to sit there and honestly tell me whether you think he has improved or not?
The correct answer is that he has not. He shows peaks of greatness and valleys of stupidity and when it all comes together it equals him being nothing more than a mediocre quarterback. Is he the worst QB in the league? No! Will he ever be the best QB in the NFC South let alone one of the best in the NFL? Absolutely not.
Get it together man.
December 27th, 2018 at 2:38 am
Walkdaplank,
The age qualifier narrows the field of competition to 9. 9 players .
December 27th, 2018 at 8:03 am
Cool to see Ndog & BrianBucs actually find some common ground.
Although we all view things differently, especially sometimes when it comes to JW… we are all rooting for the same thing.
We have been through hell at times with our beloved BUCS, and we just want to see it come together.
It will… at some point. It must.
December 27th, 2018 at 9:29 am
If we let him go he’s going to be picked up by a competent organization and turned into a star, I would much rather bring in a competent staff to do that while he is here than risk him becoming the 4th QB we gave up on to go on to win an SB.
December 27th, 2018 at 9:46 am
I think the best idea is to resign Jameis for a reasonable salary, then draft a someone really high and sign a league veteran to replace Fitztragic. Let them compete for the job and may the best man win. Let’s do what other teams have done in similar situations.
December 27th, 2018 at 11:05 am
The way I look at Winston is, he averages out to be a mediocre QB. And that’s not an awful thing, you can win a super bowl with a mediocre QB (Brad Johnson, Trent Dilfer). The difference between Winston and most mediocre QBs, though, is the statistical variability of their play. Brad Johnson averaged out to be mediocre, but his play was within a very narrow range. He rarely did anything spectacularly good, nor spectacularly bad. He had a narrow “standard deviation,” if you will. Winston is the opposite. Historically he regularly does things both spectacularly good and bad, and the average of those extremes is mediocre. He has a very broad standard deviation. (Though the last few games he seems to have narrowed that variation, both good & bad.)
It seems like, if you have two QBs who are mediocre, you’d rather have the one with the narrow standard deviation, because his play is then dependable and you can build a game plan around him that is likely to execute in a predictable way.
December 27th, 2018 at 7:27 pm
BUST
December 28th, 2018 at 9:49 am
Winston NEVER at any level had accuracy. When I looked at tape for Johnny Football, it was this WR with 12 ft. catch span, that MADE Johnny, I think that. Guy was Mike EVANS.
Looking at Jamis, he had the Kelvinator, Benjamine.
Jamis CAN NOT A DEF. FOR CHIT. RUNS BY 2 SEC. MARK. USES 2.0 TO 3.5 GARNERING PRAISE, EXTENDING THE PLAY, WHEN THERE IS NO PLAY YET, AS THE MUSIC YETTIE tries to dump off a ball UNDERNEATH, so Glazes and “”Kooter” can say INPROVEMENT.
At 3.5 to 4.0, Winston eats the ball, or is fortunate, the drop isn’t fodder for the Def. weekly highlight.
Glazer’s are arrogant, and will rue their decision about midseason next year, when they realize, THERE WILL NEVER BE A NFC SOUTH CROWN WITH THE CURRENT CREWS, STARTING WITH THE PROBLEM, LICHT.
LICHT CAN’T DRAFT A COLD IN A MINNESOTA BLIZZARD.