More Evidence Koetter Didn’t Like The Jameis Scramble And Godwin Touchdown Heave
August 20th, 2018
More evidence is piling up that indicates Dirk Koetter was unhappy with the Jameis Winston decision that electrified Bucs fans on Saturday night.
After dropping a strong hint Saturday, Koetter came back for more yesterday.
You remember the play, it’s on video below. It was 3rd-and-5 from the Titans’ 8 yard line and America’s Quarterback escaped danger a couple of times in the pocket and then was in the grasp of a defender and off balance when he threw to Chris Godwin in the end zone amidst a sea of Titans jerseys.
Complete! Touchdown! But it was the exact kind of play, a poor decision, that Jameis was supposed to eliminate from his QB repertoire this year.
And please don’t try to sell Joe that Jameis knew exactly why the flag was thrown during the frenzy of the play. It doesn’t matter; flags often are ruled “no foul on the play” after the fact.
Asked about quarterback play yesterday, Koetter raved about Jameis’ great night. But when singling out standout plays, Koetter somehow left out the touchdown that fired up fans and the national highlight shows.
“Jameis was lights out last night. That second quarter, Jameis was on fire,” Koetter said. “His scrambling was on full display. He made two beautiful plays. One of the best plays of the game was the scramble play that he threw to [Chris] Godwin that got called back on the holding call – which was a good call, but that’s still a really nice play by Jameis. He had a scramble with a nice throwaway. He had a scramble [and] hit O.J. [Howard] for an explosive [play]. For the most part, he was right on time. He had a couple of minor snafus, but for one quarter of play, Jameis was lights out.”
Again, Koetter passed on props for that heroic TD throw. Joe is sure that’s no coincidence.
Ex-Bucs tight end QB Anthony Becht kept his commentary about the play succinct on Twitter, “Love the escapability Jameis but please don’t do that.”
Enjoy it one more time below.
Is that Chris Godwin's music?! Winston escapes the pressure and connects with Godwin for 6.#GoBucs | #TBvsTEN https://t.co/m1fGJz3b98
— Tampa Bay Buccaneers (@Buccaneers) August 19, 2018
August 20th, 2018 at 9:06 am
I didn’t like it either. It was sandlot football and during the pre-season, sure but JW has GOT TO GET RID OF THAT HABIT. I hate that he threw a TD because that will be positive re-enforcement of a STUPID STUPID HABIT. That said, GO BUCS and Happy Monday everyone.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:07 am
“flags often are ruled “no foul on the play” after the fact.” Joe you and i know this is just not true. Rarely flags are picked up or ruled no penalty. out of the 20 or so flags on sat. how many we picked up? Really depends how you define often. Happens every week more than once in the NFL. –Joe
August 20th, 2018 at 9:08 am
were pick up…
August 20th, 2018 at 9:08 am
Oh course it was a BONEHEAD throw !…this was not end of half ,end of game last play situation…
August 20th, 2018 at 9:11 am
OFF TOPIC:
Joe, will The ScuttleBucs podcast be returning this season?
August 20th, 2018 at 9:18 am
Here is the point…you are right Joe… it wasn’t about a flag. Watching the replay again, it is obvious that it wasn’t similar to a AR flag call where he knew the instant replay would show a penalty on the other team. That is nothing but BS….and after everything in the off season, the one thing I’m totally fed up with is BS excuses…from everyone..
August 20th, 2018 at 9:19 am
Ok let’s hear it. But he is only?
August 20th, 2018 at 9:20 am
Careful mark2001….some limited vocab stat carrier will call you a “hater”
August 20th, 2018 at 9:23 am
Even the announcer calling the play said “Flag on the play – still running for life – he chucks it up in the end zone because of the flag”…
Winston saw the hold on the TE by #55 and he saw the flag fly in from the side judge right to where the hold occurred – past the line of scrimmage…
Free Play! And Winston made it count!
August 20th, 2018 at 9:28 am
Same o same o from Winston even if he thought it was a free play you should never assume its a free play. What if the penalty was on the Bucs and it was intercepted then what?
August 20th, 2018 at 9:29 am
If your scrambling that way trying to escape the pocket there’s no way he knew why a flag was thrown, could have been holding on that bad offensive line. Yes it was a free play but Winston talked like he knew it was a penalty on defense. Dude lies so casually
August 20th, 2018 at 9:29 am
Joe is right…Flag…BS. Holding calls are among the most difficult to predict, even if a guy is dragged down. Let’s stop making excuses. I’m hoping for the best for Jameis to develop into our Franchise QB. But making excuses for him won’t help… Koetter knows it…we should know it.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:32 am
Yeah, I’m on the fence with this one. Maybe? Maybe he knew it was a free play. However, that’s the type of play that can also end drives and lose games.
He’s not going to stop taking chances like that. That’s his “style”, it’s what he reverts to when pressured. It’s a blessing and a curse. Whether he can control it or cut back is the question.
I cringed when I saw his arm go back to throw that ball! It worked this time.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:41 am
mark2001 Says
“…after everything in the off season, the one thing I’m totally fed up with is BS excuses…from everyone…”
That’s quite the high horse you are riding.
You are right about it not being about the flag though. It is about the type of quarterback we have and the inability of fans to accept it.
On field, fans want a guy like Tom Brady…safe, methodical, never stresses. But that is not the only sort of QB, and that is not the kind of QB we have.
We have a gunslinger. More than they, we an old school type of gunslinger. There have been many very successful QBs of that type: Dan Fouts, Sonny Jurgensen, Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Jake Plummer, Matt Stafford, Big Ben, John Elway, Joe Namath, etc.
It is a dying breed and they take a lot of patience. Plummer used to throw multiple picks in almost every game, and yet he still managed to win games. Favre made so many mistakes that Andy Reed almost benched him throughout his first couple seasons with the Packers. Jurgensen was a heavy drinker off the field and reckless on the field, but he still made All Pro what? 5 times? And Namath…well…most fans know how wild a QB he was, and how he lived a very wild life off the field.
The point is, true Gunslinger Quarterbacks are a different breed of animal from the accepted norm. Their existence has been fading, so when a guy like Winston came along, fans got antsy. But the new rules actually favor Gunslingers in a lot of ways.
We have WRs who fight for the ball, and we now have a defense capable of getting the ball back quickly if there is a turnover.
Enjoy the show, people!
August 20th, 2018 at 9:43 am
Same crap JW pulled against Jaguars and Panthers last year. He clearly demonstrates he ignores coaching and does his own thing, Kinda like the Saints game when he was consumed at throwing the ball to Evans for a meaningless record. Dude will never learn
August 20th, 2018 at 9:45 am
Joe says “Happens more than once in the NFL”
Okay then. 2 or 3 divided by the tens of flags thrown during a typical NFL week is still a ridiculously low percentage that I’d take my chances if I saw a flag on a play in front of me and had a remote idea who it was on.
I’m not excusing Winston’s decision making on the play, but he has made good strides this preseason in taking care of the football and taking what the defense gives him. He’s taken check downs, and sacks, with a lot more regularity compared to any of his past seasons. This is the Winston we have to live with, and thats not a bad thing, its Farve-esque. As long as he cleans up other parts of his game, like he has done this preseason, I won’t have a problem with these types of plays on rare occasions. If you coach this out of Winston, entirely, you get a Winston that’s not worth having. The point is it already has been coached out of Winston, he just won’t or isn’t getting it. And that could represent a bigger problem than 1 play. –Joe
August 20th, 2018 at 9:45 am
Bucsfanman Says
“That’s his “style”, it’s what he reverts to when pressured.”
Exactly. And for what it is worth, I think it was Joe who published an article a year or so that stated Jameis was one of the best while under pressure.
His risks, when he isn’t injured, pay off more often than not.
I’ll take superbowl QB who takes risks over a safe 7-9 QB any time, and hte superbowl will come with Jameis. Possibly this year.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:46 am
OMG…the kid knows more about QB than any of you posters or authors, and you rip him for throwing a unconventional TD. Wow. This site has become a tabloid rag. Fan site my a$$.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:47 am
You can not coach that out of him. That is what you get. Learn to live with it.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:48 am
That was an absolutely horrible throw and I am sure there is a youtube compilation of his dumb moves like that, obv the packers one last year in a game that counted ended up really well
August 20th, 2018 at 9:49 am
So Bonzai…you don’t mind the excuses? For over the last decade, we have had hundreds of excuses…and few successes. Winning individuals, teams and organizations don’t make excuses…. they hold people accountable for their actions…at least every successful organization I worked with.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:53 am
And I don’t want a “gunslinger”… Favre has one SB ring. And without Reggie and an exceptional D, wouldn’t have had that one. I want a defensive assassin… a guy that slices and dices them up, takes the short one and moves the chains when the big play isn’t there, delivers the ball over the top when it is there, and buys time when things break down for someone to get open when the D starts breaking down.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:55 am
everyone loved it when favre, and now rodgers, do it and did it, jameis has that same mental makeup, do not try to reign in the stallion, to a point where he can’t run, you got to let him go and sit tight in the saddle, in other words, quit trying to coach out what makes this guy a winner, because, not if, but when we are a perennial playoff contender, and koetter keeps trying to mess with his mind over it, my suspicion is jameis will be famous long after koetter is kaput
August 20th, 2018 at 9:56 am
Great play by Winston. First off, he saw the hold and flag. Godwin was wide open. He didn’t just throw it up for grabs. The only way that’s intercepted is Godwin falls down on the way to a wide open reception. TD! Great play! Deal with it.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:02 am
Aaron Rodgers does the same exact thing. Genius. Give me a break.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:05 am
pelbuc … I don’t think that Jameis ignores the coaches at all; I think that in the heat of battle he just can’t help himself at this point in his career. Jameis is more competitive than most IMO, and that’s what drives him … he just can’t give up on a play. Having played several sports much of my life, as most JBFers surely have, I get it ’cause I was the same way. Sometimes it pays off; much of the time unfortunately it doesn’t.
‘Good Jameis’ can be REALLY good, but ‘Bad Jameis’ can be REALLY bad. I’m sure that it drives Koetter & Monken nuts, but Jameis is who he is. Beating that level of competitiveness out of him isn’t the way to go IMO; gradually teaching him to exert better control of his hyper-aggressiveness on the field will most likely get better results in the long run.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:05 am
One in a 100 flags get picked up.
JW did not see the infraction but when he rolled right he saw the bright orange flag right in his line of sight where a defensive holding call would be.
The announcer on hat video clip saw it and said so before the throw.
How many times do you hear an announcer say there is a flag on the play and by where it was thrown, it’s probably going to be a holding call.
If Aaron Rodgers threw that pass,, people would be raving about his awareness and intelligence.
Jameis throws it and he’s a doofus.
Could it be that Jameis has made that leap from being just an young gunslinger to one of the most dynamic QB’s in our lifetime.
Take off the negative goggles and open your eyes.
Jameis had one of the most impressive quarters of football since Doug William’s Super Bowl.
I just hope he makes the team.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:05 am
Joe may be correct in his assessment, but this is a very misleading headline and article by Joe. Coach Koetter could not have been more complementary of Jameis and his play, yet the headline and article to a lesser extent insinuates a completely different narrative than the quote. Joe is writing about one play and has provided detailed evidence, including the link from Saturday. There is nothing misleading here. Sad that you’re so sensitive to things that aren’t here. –Joe
Normally I don’t see you guys doing things like this but this has become all to common in todays mainstream media.
Example:
Interview of political candidate:
Reporter: “How is the economy doing?”
Political Candidate: “The economy is great, but we can always do better”
Reporter headline the next day:
“Candidate Does Not Denounce Nazi Party’
August 20th, 2018 at 10:06 am
So many idiots visit here. None of us had the overhead coaches view and saw if there were passing lanes or not open to Godwin on the proposed bonehead play. The tv view was blocked in that regards. Calling someone out without all of the information is not cool. So far I haven’t heard Koeter praise or complain about the play in question.
What is clear is that Jameis throws the ball while he’s in the grasp and he’s off balance, leaning back and on his back foot. That’s not what he’s being coached on third down in the red zone. –Joe
August 20th, 2018 at 10:13 am
Id be a lot more concerned about my starting QB throwing up a bunch of shot put style balloon balls in the preseason.
Won’t be near good enough vs. Brees.
Jameis has been outstanding, and it goes back to the last few games of last year.
Seems to be picking up right where he left off. 200 yds in one quarter and 3 td passes.
I’m fine with boneheaded touchdowns.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:14 am
Stupid is as stupid does. This poor kid. I’m beginning to feel sorry for him, the coaches and the organization. You will see more of this during the season. Get your excuses prepared.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:16 am
Not as much as I dislike koetters stubborness demeanor and play calling
August 20th, 2018 at 10:20 am
Lord–I can’t wait for the season to start! The Joes have stretched this one preseason play into 3 articles in a needless attempt to stir the pot.
C’mon guys–we get it, you’re streeeetttching.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:20 am
While we have to take JW at his word (difficult at times)…..his first opportunity to say he knew he had a free play was during the radio interview immediately after the game…..his only response to the question about the play was…..he saw Godwin open….
Now one would think his first response would be…”I knew I had a free play”
And, folks….that is the only excuse for the pass..
He simply cannot make those throws….it is immaterial whether he completes them or not….they should only be made on 4th down.
Winston played great in both games….he should be given high credit for that.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:21 am
I don’t see a shed of evidence in koetters comments if anything he’s talking positively about the play. And Saturday night the other joe was complimenting Jameis for being a gunslinger and being vintage Favre and saying he saw the flag. Monday morning the other one is complaining. Bad look
August 20th, 2018 at 10:23 am
“Everyone who has every watched football thinks that throw was a bad idea” is the cover story on this month’s DUH! Magazine.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:25 am
The point is it already has been coached out of Winston, he just won’t or isn’t getting it. And that could represent a bigger problem than 1 play. –Joe
I wonder if JW even listens to his coaches and goes about doing things his way instead, at times, after reading Joe’s remark?
Sure seems like it to me sometimes and if so, goodbye coach, he makes it look like your not doing your job, and is that part of being a coach killer ?
August 20th, 2018 at 10:25 am
Joe reaching on this one. Why as the point of this article other than its pre season? Ofcourse koetter didnt like it, do we need 5 articles on it. A td and bucs fans and sites still complain. How about focusing on the positive, which I know doesnt get as many clicks but damn.,
August 20th, 2018 at 10:30 am
I think ppl are confusing this play for the one last preseason, where jameis blindly threw it and prayed that someone caught it
This wasnt that much of a jump ball. He put the ball right on Godwin as he was dragging across the endzone into some open space. From the side it looks like it was crowded but it really wasnt. It was simply just a QB throwing the ball to the open receiver
August 20th, 2018 at 10:38 am
We have seen this before from Winston and we will see it again. Have to give the E for effort and the wtf description according to the result.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:41 am
I will say this….it was incredible throw….and accurate while falling backwards in the grasp…..there are very few QBs that can make that throw……wise or not.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:41 am
Some guys have written it before. If #12 of GB or #12 of NE or #7 of PIT the whole NFL would sing the praises of how aware these guys are that they had a free play and what a heck of a throw right in the waiting hands of an open receiver it was.
Same play by JW and even we complain. I really don’t understand my fellow bucs fans.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:51 am
You guys that think Rodgers does the same thing don’t watch much football, especially Packer football. Rodgers only makes that throw when there are 12 men on the D that can be evidenced by video…. or when he pulls a D lineman or a blitzing player offside with a hard count. Those situations, along with a last play of the half or the game, are the only times he would throw a ball like that. No one in the game today can read and manipulate a defense better than he does. He keeps alive when the play breaks down, and his WR’s know to find an open spot in the D, and that AR will find them and deliver the ball to them. And frankly, no one throws a more accurate pass than AR. Please guys… your comparison to AR and Jameis is very superficial…and wrong.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:53 am
It’s only a boneheaded play if it doesn’t work.
Should he have thrown the ball awa when the pocket collapsed, or thrown a TD?
Should he have eaten the ball when the defender laid hands on him, or thrown a TD?
Should he have thrown the ball at his receiver’s feet when the second defender closed in on him, or thrown a TD?
Should he have pulled an “Eli Manning” and just slipped down into the fetal position when the third defender grabbed him by his ankle, or thrown a TD?
Substitute “or thrown a TD” in the questions above with just about any other outcome, and we likely have reason to complain. He’ll give us a chance to do so at some point this season because that’s who he is. But when your QB is torching defenses at a 70+% clip with multiple TDS and no TOs, while making darn near every throw in the book, you cheer when he throws up another 6 points with a Houdini-like play that only a handful of players in the league could make.
Jameis was the best player on the field on Saturday, and it wasn’t close. How about we enjoy the successes while we have the opportunity, rather than Spend effort trying to recast a highlight reel scoring play into some manner of failure by our guy.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:53 am
And consider what I’m saying…from PFT…
Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has avoided interceptions like no other quarterback in NFL history.
Rodgers has just 78 interceptions in his NFL career, and his rate of throwing an interception on 1.6 percent of his passes is the lowest for any quarterback in NFL history.
To put it into perspective: Rodgers’ career-high in interceptions is 13, which he threw in his first season as the Packers’ starter. If Rodgers plays until he’s 50 and throws 14 interceptions every single year, he’ll still have fewer career interceptions than Brett Favre.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:55 am
“Wow. This site has become a tabloid rag. Fan site my a$$” The site No, but the comment section definitely yes. You can go to almost any other Bucs site and actually talk X’s and O’s with intelligent people. Not here my friend. Maybe this is because the Joe’s stay away from x’s and o’s stuff? I always wondered why that was…
August 20th, 2018 at 10:56 am
Further in same article from PFT…in case you don’t see how ridiculous the AR “gunslinger” talk and comparison is…
Rodgers is 10th in NFL history in passing touchdowns, but he’s tied for 159th in NFL history in interceptions. The quarterback directly in front of Rodgers on the career touchdown list, Ben Roethlisberger, has 96 more interceptions than Rodgers. The quarterback directly behind Rodgers on the career touchdown list, John Elway, has 148 more interceptions than Rodgers.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:56 am
Sorry, Joe(s) kind’a disagree with you, at least a bit. Coach’s refusal of outright condemnation OR praise of ‘the throw’ speaks more to me that he knows fameous is gonna do it, but he better be right, or he’s gonna he thrown to the wolves. Sort’a like solders have the legal right to disobey an illegal order, but they damn sure better be right, if they do.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:57 am
On the field…………off the field………who REALLY thinks Winston is gonna change? Not me. The old saying goes, when somebody shows you who they are, believe them.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:58 am
Meant to add that coach hasn’t shown much hesitation to call out bad play, when he sees it.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:59 am
So Neal feel free to go to another site.
August 20th, 2018 at 10:59 am
Anytime a WR is open and you hit him with an accurate pass, well that’s a good thing. Key words, OPEN & ACCURATE. What’s not to like about that? The last game last year against the Saints Winston threw the ball to Evans in the end zone where he was covered by 4 Saints. That was a bad toss because Evans wasn’t open and the pass was not accurate.
#Get After It!
August 20th, 2018 at 11:01 am
Welcome to the NationalInquirer.com…
Good grief.
Still looking for something that’s not there.
Did Aretha Franklin really get abducted by aliens????
August 20th, 2018 at 11:02 am
“there are very few QBs that can make that throw”
That’s the takeaway from this play if you ask me….
August 20th, 2018 at 11:03 am
The fact is if Winston feels it is there he is going for it. Do not expect him to change. He may win or lose the game. But he is not going to change.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:05 am
“So Neal feel free to go to another site.” I do dingle-berry. That’s how i know what happens one other sites… You do you just have no ability to use deductive reasoning? Good lord, this is what i was talking about. I have been coming to this site for almost a decade, and it’s people like you that are slowly bringing it down. People that don’t know their a** from a hole in the ground. That just want to complain about s(p)it instead of actually talking about the game. Feel free to keep your dumba** opinions to yourself.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:07 am
and this is how rumors about Jameis and koetter get started! Good cop, bad cop….click, click, click…just can’t do it anymore..
All conjecture!
August 20th, 2018 at 11:08 am
Joe is writing about one play and has provided detailed evidence, including the link from Saturday. There is nothing misleading here. Sad that you’re so sensitive to things that aren’t here. –Joe
Joe,
I think the vast majority of time I am on the same page as you. I think your site is great and you guys do a great job 99% of the time with your pithy comments and well though articles.
I just think in general you guys are much better than most reporters in todays day and age. Places like the Tampa Bay Times or the New York Times often twist peoples words or commit libel in some cases.
I don’t think I am sensitive about it, but I think reporters insinuating things a person may or may not think is not an appropriate way of writing an article. I don’t want you to loose your way, but perhaps you are right and I was overly sensitive to your headline and article.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:08 am
Neal’s right!
August 20th, 2018 at 11:08 am
Miguel Grande
Not negative googles, realistic googles. And you may want to try a pair if the flag that you saw thrown was bright orange.
Last time I checked a penalty flag in the NFL is yellow.
But really guys, this argument is all for nothing.
Jameis said he knew the penalty was on the Titans……
And Jameis NEVER lies.
So please, just praise the Messiah and be blessed.
God is good you know.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:10 am
One last point on the AR thing…he doesn’t have the best OLines, by a long shot. Bakhtiari and Bulaga go down every year, and they are two of their best three linemen. Just watch him play and learn how a exceptional QB can manipulate a defense, keep the play alive, and find a way to deliver the ball and move the chains, in spite of a weak O line….and do it without turning the ball over. But no one talks about the Packer O line…because he can find a space to deliver the ball, make them pay when they blitz almost every time, and can set up the run with the pass. I guess we are used to QB’s that at best can deliver the ball or do those other things in a rudimentary fashion. But when the Packers are on, watch a master at work. Frankly, as a Bucs fan, I hate to see him play us… but watch and learn what is possible.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:15 am
Nobody in their right mind would like it….only the Jaboo loving knuckle draggers would think that was a great play. He has learned NOTHING and is going to continue to be a disgrace
August 20th, 2018 at 11:25 am
Joe Montana “almost” overthrew Dwight Clarke on “the catch”. Guy had to jump up for the ball. Completely falling backwards when he let the ball go. Off his back foot.
What a bum that Joe Montana was.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:34 am
IMHO people who are lamenting the fact that some of us lamented the play haven’t watched JW and the multiple times he tries that play and it ends in a turnover. Nor have they watched his coach tell him repeatedly not to make that play. I think they also don’t give enough credit to those of us who are critical of the play for knowing this is just a preseason situation. Sure it was OK because it worked that time but it IS a habit of his and it IS NOT a good one. It’s that simple: “Cool play, don’t make it a habit”
August 20th, 2018 at 11:38 am
Winston shouldn’t have made the pass no doubt….unfortunately, I think Winston will always try to score or win at all cost….even if that means throwing the ball while being parallel to the ground….
with that said, its hard to complain about his performance even with 1 bonehead play….
#NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!…#PRESSURESONTHECOACHES!!!!…GO BUCS!!!
August 20th, 2018 at 11:40 am
@ eric
Its only a great play when a white qb throws the ball off his back foot for a touchdown. You know big ben has made a career on such throws with the never say die attitude and he has thrown his share of ints etc. but he is and has been considered eilite. Stop trying to make sense of it. There are a fraction of people who will never like Jameis.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:53 am
Mark2001 are you trying to say Jameis doesn’t do the same exact thing? He did the that on the play in question! He does it in every game so what are you talking about? How much money you want to bet that in the same exact situation AR wouldn’t have done the same thing as Jameis did? He has a great arm great confidence in his abilities plus to see a receiver open in the endzone, he’s going to do that every time!
So gman what does that make you? A tongue dragging hater of Jameis??? Unlike you so called fans we don’t harp or nitpick on negative things to make us dislike him. We see them for what they are. We look at the good that far out weighs the bad. We don’t condemn him the way you guys do. Please I hope you guys keep up this hate when he finally hoists a Lombardi either with us or someone else.
August 20th, 2018 at 11:59 am
For those of you “same old Winston” crowd, and this is the bigger story, lets look at the earlier drive.
They get the ball into the red zone, but an OJ80 penalty negates a good run and backs the Bucs up.
This is when Winston has typically struggled.
Next play, great, patient toss to DJAX that gets 19 back.
2nd and 1, must be converted but ends with a bad loss of 2. Awful Rojo decision.
So, third down, red zone…. False start. from 2nd and 1 it now is 3rd and 8.
Instant pressure has to scramble (could’ve thrown it away), touch down, but brought back for holding. So from 2nd and 1 at the 13 it is now 3rd and 18 at the 30. Winston often forces the play or waits to see if something develops. He quickly diagnosed the defense is playing deep zone, takes the free 9 yards and gives the kicker a 36 yard field goal vs 45.
Anyone thinking same old Winston is wrong.
For a QB to be good they must make different decisions based on field/game situation. Tom Brady did throw a red zone INT last year against the Bucs if anyone recalls. Forced a pass on an educated gamble and lost. It happens.
I will say this. When you watch the all 22 that pass doesn’t look near as bad as it does on the telecast. I don’t know about the whole flag thing, I will say Winston has been burned before seeing flags that didn’t happen (Lions game last year there was a hold he saw, that happened but didn’t get called so INT, which I blame him for) If his primary read is the tight end(not unheard of), he sees the hold and the immediate flag, I can track with his line of logic.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:06 pm
David Big…look at the stats I took the time to give you. No…No…Jameis may play the game like AR sometime…I hope so…but he certainly doesn’t now.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:12 pm
BTW David Big….few do. In case you didn’t see the Packer/ Steelers preseason game, AR did throw one into the end zone that was picked off…but it was when a lumbering D lineman didn’t get off the field in time and there were 12 men on the field. 5 yard penalty…reload…as PFT said… “Rodgers has just 78 interceptions in his NFL career, and his rate of throwing an interception on 1.6 percent of his passes is the lowest for any quarterback in NFL history.”
August 20th, 2018 at 12:13 pm
BTW… David…few ever have….”Rodgers has just 78 interceptions in his NFL career, and his rate of throwing an interception on 1.6 percent of his passes is the lowest for any quarterback in NFL history.”
He did have one int. in the Steeler game…when a jogging D lineman didn’t get off the field in time…12 men on the field…just as I said.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:25 pm
I’m wishing the best for Jameis…but really… from 2005 to 2018 AR has 78 Ints on 4895 passes.. first place Int ratio, obviously…Jameis 2015-2-18 has 44 on 1544 attempts, 32 TD to Int ratio. AR’s TD to Int ratio a little over 4, Jameis 1.57. And guess who is right behind AR? Brady…no coincidence.
Jameis TD to Int ratio is actually better than Favre’s. So I’m not saying he is a bad QB. Favre in his career had well over 10 thousand passes. Amazing. But BF is the guy that would be more appropriately compared to Jameis. Always said so.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:35 pm
So the bucs need to find a new qb because he is not aaron rodgers? Well that would mean every team would need a new qb. Aaron rodgers do not grow on trees. You are taking all this time to break down rodgers int ratio in comparison to jameis. Why dont you break down big ben’s int ratio. You know the qb with two rings that is a gunslinger ie the qb jameis is most compared to. I know you wont because that would kill your narrative.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:38 pm
Play was so egregious The Buc FB is featuring as getting the ball to your guy!
August 20th, 2018 at 12:49 pm
Please read, Webster. Never said that. Just said that he has a long way to grow, and Koetter was right in not being pleased in throwing the ball up like he did. Actually Rothlisburger is better than Jameis..at number 17 with a 1.89 TD to QB ratio. Jameis is right ahead of Randall Cunningham and right behind Carson Palmer. What do you mean I won’t look? Makes you look pretty stupid, doesn’t it. But Honestly, you guys sound like some momma bear whose baby cub is attacked. I’m not attacking him. I like Jameis and hope for his success. I’m just saying…get real.
August 20th, 2018 at 12:56 pm
TNEW…prejudice views are hindering some from seeing his growth…
GMAN…go to FB…I actually think the BUCS show liked it too…
Godwin said he was EXPECTING Jameis to throw that ball…
Every player brings his own uniqueness and none of the other 32+ QB’s play perfect….
HOW ABOUT THE OTHER PLAYS why are the loudest people drowning out the positive plays!
This is a no win reaction, with a no win team, being hampered by a no win fanbase!
Some of the fanbase get it and we want the BUCS 2WIN! Go BUCS
August 20th, 2018 at 12:57 pm
JBF : Can you describe how Jameis has been playing so far this pre-season?
Koetter : Jameis has been really impressive this pre-season, I’m very pleased.
JBF Headline : ” Koetter Disess Jameis”
JBF : Koetter did not say Jameis has been awesome in pre-season. Stay tuned folks we’ll keep looking under every rock…
Sorry Joe I had to do this…
Let’s learn how to read a headline and not make up stuff as we interpret it. Joe’s post is clear in all phases. Joe would suggest re-reading what’s actually here. –Joe
August 20th, 2018 at 12:57 pm
mark2001 has it right…some reading comprehension retarded posters can’t understand constructive criticism ….rather than engaging in discussion they thrown down veiled race cards and stoop to calling anyone critical of Jameis a “hater”…while on criticism a real leader/QB would still have his head in the game 3&4th quarters rather than smoking and joking on the sidelines as Jameis was…a real leader would be in the game with the QB coach and offensive players getting ready to go into the game and chatting up those just coming off the field…was not a good image
I want Jameis to become the QB he thinks he is…
and the person he wants people to believe he is…
August 20th, 2018 at 12:59 pm
How many INT’s and all this nonsense.
We’re talking about one pass….if AR would throw it or not.
Not stats and numbers….
August 20th, 2018 at 1:01 pm
@ mark
Do you read? When someone said that rodgers make throws off his back foot as well, it did not need your int ratio or the captain obvious answer of jameis is not there yet. Its a poster pointing out that gunslingers take chances. Oh and if you had any reading comprehension, you would have understood my point about big ben. Many seasons of throwing 28 tds with 15 ints. The same stats idiots like you who want bash jameis for but tell us he is no big ben.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:02 pm
That was Jameis being Jameis, when he’s at his best. If any other QB in the league made that play it would have been on every highlight reel. It was completed. It was on the money and it put 6 on the board. Koetter has demonstrated time and again that he’s not one of the top offensive minds in the NFL.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
Thank you 87. Mark thinks we are idiots. I clearly see his intentions and they are obvious
August 20th, 2018 at 1:03 pm
webster or….what 87 said!
lol smh
August 20th, 2018 at 1:09 pm
Every Buc can score a TD…
Just not Jameis….
Extreme?
That’s how I’m reading it!
August 20th, 2018 at 1:11 pm
One more thing. Jameis was the #2 qb at making plays outside the pocket when plays break down behind who? Rodgers. Im sure rodgers made a few off balance passes. Lets stop nit picking this qb.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:15 pm
and Joe…I was just messing wit ya!
August 20th, 2018 at 1:15 pm
Webster…not talking about throwing mechanics or style. I’m taking about results…not style. It isn’t a beauty contest. And You talk about stats…but mine are the ones that translate to wins and losses. You want to compare those, though I honestly think that would be unfair to Jameis.
Here again…you can’t read. I said you must feel stupid for saying I wouldn’t look and share the rankings for Big Ben. I didn’t say you were stupid…I said that it made you looked stupid by saying that…as I did share Big Bens ranking….though it does seem you are trying to convince me that you may be.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:21 pm
A-Aron to me is more a Surgeon, than gunslinger. Never thought of him as Favre like in any way.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:22 pm
When Rodgers is wearing the throwback vs his current uniform.
How many int’s has he thrown one vs the other…that’s the question!
August 20th, 2018 at 1:40 pm
87..the answer is, would you be confused of who was wearing either uniform? He looks and play the same. And Jameis plays like Jameis whether he is suspended the first three games or not.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:47 pm
Jmark…agree…he is a tactician and a surgeon…an assassin of defenses. He and Brady are more comparable.
Favre on the other hand was a gunslinger…and the way you beat a gunslinger is make the plays when he does something risky or stupid. I remember a game we had the Packers on the ropes…a playoff game I believe…and GB was driving near our goal line. Favre threw a wild pass that hit DB in the chest and he missed intercepting it (one of the very few). And GB won that game. I put it like this…Favre would do a couple extraordinary things for every stupid and risky play he made. The key is that you had to make him pay when he made the mistakes…if you didn’t make him pay for his mistakes, he would bury you.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:54 pm
Play your game Jameis! Don’t let them change you.
August 20th, 2018 at 1:59 pm
Writing appears to on the wall for JW. Looks like the organization is done with him and his good preseason play, against second team D, will position him for good trade bait. The third game of the preseason is coming up, this is when the starters play the most of any other preseason game. To that end, if a starting quarterback were to go down JW would be good trade bait.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:05 pm
There’s no doubt that Jameis could see the flag and may have seen the actual foul. There’s also the possibility that with a play that takes that amount of time to develop, there could have been an offensive hold outside of his field of vision. It was a gamble. I’ll take it so long as it goes in our favor. But tell me this. Have his mechanics changed. Where did the wobble go? I haven’t seen every pass but they are beautiful. Anybody notice that?
August 20th, 2018 at 2:09 pm
People say Aaron Rodgers walks on water because his interception rate is so low.
If Jameis had the luxury of sitting on the bench for several years behind a Hall of Fame QB to totally learn his craft before being thrown to the wolves at 20 years of age, he might have similar stats.
Remember, Jameis’ first professional pass went for a TD, although it was a TD for the Titans.
He has shown a marked improvement since his initial 100% interception ratio.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:23 pm
Reed and Miguel….yes I post on Sunday morning that everything other than The Bonehead throw was very very good…
August 20th, 2018 at 2:24 pm
Miguel… agree that Aaron had a few things going for him…in addition to sitting for a couple of years, he had a few other exceptional QB’s come through the GB QB factory…Brunnell, Favre, Kurt Warner, and later on Rodgers. They had a proven track record of developing QB. And many teams passed on AR because of his mechanics and such. They had a good offensive system…they had good position coaches..they had a proud heritage. Few QB’s have that advantage.
That being said, Jameis doesn’t have to make major changes to his game…he has to make some adjustments.. And who of us hasn’t had to when going to a new job and such. My point was that making throws like that is unwise. Koetter thinks so…I think he is right. With this talented group of WR’s, he shouldn’t have to make 50/50 or worse percentage throws.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:30 pm
Ken Stabler “sea of Hands” catch.
Throw to clearance davis as the snake was going down while being ankle tackled. Davis was blanketed by three receivers.
A great moment in raiders history. Knocked the mighty dolphins out of the playoffs.
What a bum that snake stabler was.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:33 pm
Jamies had a passer rating of 151.4 and threw for two 2 TD’s and 226 yards in one quarter.
That equates to 8 TD’s 904 yards passing if you convert his production to a full game.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:41 pm
Jameis’s coach (Koetter) says he is like AR…so who opinion is the more informed?
August 20th, 2018 at 2:42 pm
Godwin said they practice that exact scenario all the time.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:44 pm
Eric…that is like comparing apples to oranges…old AFL… “mad bomber” Lamonica before Stabler… that was a different era, many different rules, very different game. Please.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:48 pm
What has changed concerning a QB throwing a ball up for grabs while going down?
Stabler was heading face first to the ground and threw a wounded duck to Davis, winning the game.
No rule has effected such a play.
August 20th, 2018 at 2:54 pm
If you switched Jameis and Fitzpatrick performances from Sat. they would be stringing jameis up for the wounded ducks Ryan threw.
And right into coverage a few times. Talk about not leading the receivers.
August 20th, 2018 at 3:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpt0c7UaJQM
Brady throws from his face.
August 20th, 2018 at 3:07 pm
Same game sat night Mariota was under pressure and tried an underhanded pass over the middle.
QB’s do this all the time, including Brady.
But let the silly hatred flow.
August 20th, 2018 at 3:28 pm
Eric… almost everything was different…the D’s…the O’s….stick em…contact with receivers….on and on. And that changes the nature of Offenses and Defenses. They didn’t even have the cover 2 zone. And those “bomb’s” were a regular part of the AFC, early merger Offenses back then. Now you play like that, you pay. No one plays like that anymore…they tried with founts in San Diego with his “pass first offense” and the “greatest show on turf” was a great Offense…But we are in Tampa and we know how we could take apart those big pass Offenses … wasn’t it Warren that said…Just score 13 points? My point is that you can’t win the way that old Oakland/ Stabler team did back then in today’s game.
August 20th, 2018 at 3:35 pm
My point was that with the changes in the rules, and the development of Defenses, the “Mad Bomber” approach won’t work in today’s game. Fouts tried it in San Diego to no avail. And our “Tampa two” zone proved that we could contain those deep throwing offenses. The offense of the Stabler Raiders wouldn’t be successful in the modern era. And the “mad bomber” approach will lead to too many turnovers and lack of success.
August 20th, 2018 at 3:38 pm
All that matters is wins huh haters?
Well you got your win thanks to Jameis but here you all are b!tchin and moaning.
This is like the play of the year a few years ago vs Chicago whrre Jameis ran into his own end zone and we yelled no no no. Then he bombs it 50yards to Mikey and we all freak out about the amazing play.
JJameis had a great game and Idk how anyone can be anything but optimistic about where he can lead our team this year. Unless you are a Jater.
Go BUCS!!
August 20th, 2018 at 3:50 pm
Great play because it scored! HOWEVER, you’re kidding yourself if you tell me that you didn’t cringe when he cocked back to make that throw. You KNOW you did!
He is what he is. He takes chances.
I’d like to flip this and note the CATCH by Godwin! Are you kidding me with that catch?!!!
August 20th, 2018 at 4:30 pm
@Altered Ego
“some limited vocab stat carrier will call you a “hater””
Exactly AE!!! I’ve been searching for that line for months now, thanks for using it. I’m tired of the incredibly LAZY thinking that passes for an astute observation. It’s not just here on JBF it’s everywhere. If anybody dares disagree with someone or finds somebody’s performance lacking they are called “haters”. It’s such a boring and meaningless cliche…hater…do people even understand what that word actually means?
@mark2001
I do not mean to sound obsequious but you sir have just unloaded a GREAT series of posts backed up by facts/stats and examples. And like AE you realize that folks are ripping you simply because you criticized the WRONG player.
The past three years, since retirement I’ve spent July/August/September on Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. The natives up here live and breathe Packer football…they bleed gold and green up here and the only preseason games I’m assured of seeing are the Pack games.
You did a great job Mark and I’m just here not to simply compliment you but to agree with you from a slightly different perspective. I’ve seen A LOT of GB coverage the past three years. My eyeballs tell me exactly what you documented so very well.
Rodgers is probably the best QB in football right now…sorry for the heresy about Brady…if you think he’s number one I won’t argue against a guy with his record. But Rodgers is incredible! He runs well…throws well and makes great decisions…unlike Fameis. Yes he’s a gunslinger and that’s fine…there is a fine line between playing fearlessly and playing stupidly….JW is still trying to find the correct side of that line. I hope he can get there. He certainly has the talent but his “head” and decision making are still a major question. I remain hopeful he’ll answer that question this year in a positive fashion. That’s a simple observation…not any dislike much less “hate” for JW.
Anyway…Mark you humble me…great posting.
August 20th, 2018 at 5:01 pm
That will literally be the frustration of Bucs fans for as long as Winston is here…..Winston is not going to stop, its what he’s done since college all the way up to now. As smart as he is with dissecting defenses, his ability to understand game situations fails when he’s under pressure. He literally can not resist.
August 20th, 2018 at 5:08 pm
Now guys a serious question. We’ve seen the highlight now over and over again.
Putting the decision on that particular play aside are none of you worried about JW’s absolute vulnerability on plays like that?
Seriously…we’ve seen this play several times a season now…sometimes with disastrous results…sometimes he pulls it off. But look again!!!
He is totally off balance with several defenders breathing down his neck…he’s throwing off his back foot…falling backwards…with his arm and shoulder totally exposed. That play is an injury just waiting to happen. If we’re comfortable with JW exposing his body like that without any way to defend himself why would we hesitate to let him run the ball. Dang he’d be less exposed if we used him as an option QB…at least when he’s running the ball he can protect himself…sprawled out on his rear ankle he is completely unable to protect himself or get ready for a hit.
This is not “hating’ on JW it’s trying to figure the best way to keep him playing.
August 20th, 2018 at 6:10 pm
Mark2001: well said and well reasoned Sir.
stpetebucsfan: agree totally.
August 20th, 2018 at 6:50 pm
I see all of this debate. It’s like people don’t even see what’s happening. The last six nfl games Jameis Winston has been a part of he’s been playing at an elite pro bowl level. Total the numbers, QBR, interception rate, yards per attempt etc. Again, the last 6 times he’s been on an NFL field competing he’s been very good and nobody seems to see it. Koetter said he’s looked like this all camp. It’s becoming a pattern that no one seems to see at all.
August 20th, 2018 at 8:41 pm
Let your qb make a play. Ie: Aaron Rodgers https://youtu.be/ttDn8K7QzaU. They need to take advantage of his play making not coach it out of him. Why not move the pocket have him run more bootlegs? He threw a td after having immediate presser in his face he made the play thats all that matters. If you’ve watch him from this preseason compared to his previous ones he obviously looks like a better qb.
August 20th, 2018 at 9:30 pm
@ bobby
Jameis has been the 2nd best qb under pressure and out of the pocket for the past couple of years. Jenna laine wrote an article of how jameis has thrown the most tds out of the pocket since brett farve but you say he fsils when under pressure? Dont let facts get in the way. I forgot, we live in the era of alternative facts and the new one we learned this weekend, truth isnt truth.
August 21st, 2018 at 3:36 pm
Please, JoeBucs, Pewter Plank, and ALL the others, can we STOP calling Jameis “America’s Quarterback”?? He has NOT earned that moniker, yet. Beyond that, if he stays squeaky clean, he might be able to shake off the reputation he’s earned from the stupid, assinine decisions he’s made in the past. It’s time to grow up. He has a bright future if he does. His numbers are actually pretty damn good, just a few tweaks to some decisions, and establish a good ground game, and it will only improve his stats, and the team’s. Then after a while, maybe we can bring back the “America’s QB” thing. Go Bucs!!!!
August 21st, 2018 at 3:50 pm
He indeed has earned that moniker.
August 21st, 2018 at 8:54 pm
SLC-BUCCAHOLIC….maybe you need to go adjust the dish outside your Moon Lake trailer!
The one next to that confederate flag!