The Bucs & Malcolm Butler

February 5th, 2018

Yes, DeSean Jackson was lucky not to get ejected for this punch to Malcolm Butler.

Patriots stud pending free agent cornerback Malcolm Butler can’t be blamed for the Eagles allowing Nick Foles to run up 41 points on the Belicheats last night.

Why? Because Butler was surprisingly benched — and New England media and fans are irate and in disbelief.

Consider this from NESN beat writer Zack Cox.

Even if Butler, who was inconsistent this season but had started all but one game since the start of the 2015 season, was not part of the Patriots’ original game plan, that plan should have been tweaked as Super Bowl MVP Nick Foles spent three hours tearing New England’s defense to shreds.

Eric Rowe, who started over Butler, struggled to defend Eagles receiver Alshon Jeffery in the first half, and reserve safety Jordan Richards, playing in dime packages, was picked on throughout the night. Belichick and Patricia did make one halftime adjustment, but it was to plug Johnson Bademosi — a special teams standout who rarely played on defense during the second half of the season — into Richards’ spot rather than Butler. Then, once safety Patrick Chung suffered an injury, Richards returned.

Butler played the most defensive snaps of any Patriots player this season. He played the second-most snaps in 2016 and the most in 2015. For him to play zero in the most important game of the year is baffling. Patriots fans deserve a legitimate explanation.

Bill Belicheat said after the game that Butler’s benching was not a discipline issue. Butler stayed rather classy given the circumstances, but was in disbelief because his coaches quit on him (his words).

Last offseason, there were trade rumors of Butler getting shopped to the Saints. It didn’t happen and he signed his restricted free agent deal and played more defensive snaps than anyone on the Patriots. He also led the team in passes defensed, and played every snap of their two previous postseason games.

Undrafted in 2014, Butler, who turns 28 in a few weeks, will be an unrestricted free agent headed for a fat pay day next month. Obviously, he won’t return to New England.

What a target for the Bucs he would be. Certainly, Butler will be pursued by many teams, but that might be the Bucs deal-killer. Would Butler really want to go from the NFL penthouse to the NFC’s dungeon?

91 Responses to “The Bucs & Malcolm Butler”

  1. Snookman Says:

    Typical Tampabay buccaneers target: A system player who is going to be cut because he truly is not good enough. You would think that the greatest NFL coach of all time knows what this guy can and cant do. There is a very good reason why in the most important game this guy is a scratch. That should send some major red flags. LICHT PLEASE NO SLOPPY SECONDS! Belichik obviously saw a little VH 3 in him and did not trust him.

  2. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    If it was not a discipline issue, it was an injury issue. If Bill did not feel safe putting him in, I think we need to know more before buying that cow.

  3. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Unless it was an incentives issue. Was he close to earning an incentive that would have gotten him more money? If they plan to let him leave, they’d want to save money.

  4. OneBucPerson Says:

    Eh, VH3 was struggling a lot outside of the slot and our impending FA Brent Grimes is turning 35. I seem to recall Butler getting picked on a bit on the outside this season, but he’s quick and he’s still in his prime so why not?

  5. Tom Edrington Says:

    You got it backwards, the Bucs don’t get players from the Patriots, the Patriots get players from the Bucs……

  6. AlteredEgo Says:

    Pats should have paid LeGarrette Blount the money and not let him go….he made a big difference for the Eagles

  7. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    Fuller from Chicago for Cornerback…young guy on the rise!

  8. AC Says:

    Younger but not BETTER than Brent Grimes… #KeepGrimesinTampa #PayTheMan

  9. MadMax Says:

    Dont overpay, but bring him in just to see….never know until you try. Its all on the player, as it is with all players. Just send Baker on his way please….install VITA as his replacement.

  10. MadMax Says:

    And im ALL ABOUT KEEPING GRIMES!! PAY HIM!!

  11. Armybucsfan Says:

    AC Non of our corners are better than grimes but if he decides to call it quits this year we don’t have much choice. The uncertainty that looms over grimes bothers me since our already poor secondary may get worse this season.

  12. pewterpirate99 Says:

    Stud pending free agent corner? Really?? So he’s a stud corner because Pete Carroll had a complete brain fart in the Super Bowl and decided to throw the ball instead of running it with beast mode on 2nd and goal? The guy’s has only had 8 interceptions in four years…..that’s what you call a stud corner?? LOL This is part of the reason why we’re still a mediocre at best football organization, that kind of mentality. Where are the standards around here? Oh it must be that he was on the Patriots that makes him a stud corner, huh? Yeah how did that workout for them last night? Give me a damn break, SMDH.

  13. 813bucboi Says:

    I like butler…..I think he’s talented enough to be a #1 CB…..I think wherever he ends up, he’ll have a chip on his shoulder and come out motivated….

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!!

  14. Jarod lauderdale Says:

    I would love to keep Grimes knocking it’s only going to be another one maybe two year deal at what ? 7 mill a year ? You go out and get you friggin one of the top free agent corners & between t.johnson , m.butler , Fuller I feel confident we can get one then you have Grimes & one of these guys to lockdown the outside of the field . Now , go get tre Boston & pair him with Evans and safety is now not as bad moving forward . Here’s where it gets tricky….chub & Barkley will be gone at 7 I hate to say it but it will not be like oj last year , he is a te for Christ sake and not many ever get drafted before the 15 pick ! No , chubb & bark are gone ! However , do we now get Nelson & Sony & rest of draft dline or what ? What say you ?

  15. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I imagine Licht is focusing on bringing back Grimes at this point. He;s just too valuable to let get away, and he wants to be here. Miko will get the deal done.

    And, as I’ve been saying, VHIII is not a bust yet. He had one bad year. One. We’ll have to see how he responds to that bad year. And Smith is improving now that he is in the right position.

    Those things said, I DO feel we need to bring in good competition. Make them earn those spots.

  16. Eric Says:

    This kind of thing always works out so well for us.

    Perhaps we could ensure our complete destruction and bring Rock Star in as a consultant. He knows how to fleece the pats and all.

    Be a good way to contend for the number one pick in 19.

  17. AlteredEgo Says:

    Young FA’s and the draft……..too many holes chasing top of the hill names….TOO MANY holes !….build a team not a roster

  18. SteveK Says:

    Too bad our #11 overall pick from the 2015 draft isn’t developing into a starting CB.

    I hope Heargraves bounces back this year. If he lines up 12+ yards off the WR this fall, I am going to lose my sh!t.

    The defense needs to be better. Now.

  19. Bucsfanman Says:

    ^^^ I could make due without the finger-wagging too!

  20. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    MadMax

    U know I respect your opinion my brotha – But I can’t agree on the resigning Grimes. Don’t get me wrong – I really respect what the man has done for the BUCS.
    But resigning a 35yr old corner – with no depth at the position; is not a sound football move. Especially since when the talent is very limited on the market next year.

    Example: Resign Grimes (2018-2019)

    2019 Projection: After Grimes Retires (36)
    CB Vernon Hargreaves | Javien Elliott
    CB Ryan Smith | David Rivers

    Not a good look.

    The 2018 Market is full of young talented corners.

    Example: Experienced Young Corners
    • Bashaud Breeland CB 25 WAS
    • Kyle Fuller CB 25 CHI
    • E.J. Gaines CB 25 BUF
    • Ross Cockrell CB 26 NYG
    • Malcolm Butler CB 27 NE
    • Travis Carrie CB 27 OAK
    • Rashaan Melvin CB 28 IND
    • Tramaine Brock CB 29 MIN

    Sign at least 2 of these young Kats.
    –Bashaud Breeland CB 25 WAS
    –Malcolm Butler CB 27 NE

    Line-Up 2018-2021
    LCB Bashaud Breeland
    RCB Malcolm Butler
    NCB Vernon Hargreaves

    Not a bad look

  21. RawBucFan Says:

    He would be a great signing regardless of the price. Again COMPETITION within the roster should be the word of the offseason. One thing scares me though….because Licht has ties to NE I hope whatever intel he gets wouldn’t deter him. Hope he does his due diligence & doesn’t let his faith in NE reports sway him in any way. His job is on the line & for some reason I think he’ll get free agency right this offseason. ALSO bring Grimes & McClain back in addition to another free agent (like Patrick Robinson) COMPETITION reveals who your dogs are!!! We need hungry dogs to turn it around.

  22. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    franchise Grimes! …can’t let him get away//

  23. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    LMFAO ^^^

  24. JimmyJack Says:

    LUV…..That all sounds good on paper. But that’s all it is, just paper. You resign Grimes because you can get that deal done before he walks. You keep the good players you have in house if you can.

    You can’t just sign players with a click of the mouse. How do you even know Butler makes a trip to FL to begin with? What if he wants to stay in the Northeast? What if Breeland and Cockrell take discounts to stay with their teams and Gaines/Fuller Get franchised? What if Melvin wants to play back closer to home on the west coast?

    If you can guarantee me all of those guys you named will visit One Buc Place then, yeah, maybe you consider letting Grimes walk. But the fact that they are listed to be free agents doesn’t make it a fact that they will consider coming to Tampa……And if that list is much shorter then you think it is fans will be screaming why we let Grimes walk………And just because you sign Grimes doesn’t mean you can’t draft and develope younger players or sign a younger guy next year. Or that you can find somebody under the radar to develope.

    For now resigning Grimes signifies stability. It would be a good move.

  25. 813bucboi Says:

    luv

    I agree….let grimes walk and get younger CB’s in FA…..then switch the defensive secondary scheme to man press instead of soft/off coverage…..draft a late round cb to develop…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  26. Hodad Says:

    His benching has nothing to do with injury, or that he’s not a good corner. He’s a free agent looking to get paid, and Belichick doesn’t pay any player not named Brady. Are some of you guys serious? Butler would be an instant up grade over any corner on our roster. I’d say including Grimes, because he’s a willing tackler in the run game, Grimes wasn’t this year. You’d rather pay franchise money on a 36 year old corner over a longer term 28 year old solution that made the game winning interception in a super bowl two years ago?

  27. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    LUVMYBUCS, we could resign Grimes AND get 1-2 more corners.

  28. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    C eh N eh D eh Says
    “franchise Grimes! …can’t let him get away”

    I think he has already been franchised the maximum number of times.

  29. 813bucboi Says:

    jimmy

    butler is as good as gone in NE…..you think he wants to stay in NE after being benched?…..plus they didn’t want to give him a long term deal last offseason…..

    regarding the others, its simple…money talks…..plus their all young so their looking for a big pay day……bucs shouldn’t over pay but we got to show them the money…..

    grimes would be just another band aid…..plus of all our CB’s, grimes is the only one that excels in off coverage……our other 2 young CB’s ryan smith and VHG struggle that playing off but are capable of playing man press…..why handicap the secondary because of 1 player……smitty and his scheme only plays to the strength of grimes which is hindering the development of VHG and smith…..letting grimes walk would(hopefully) force smitty to play a different style of defense in the secondary…..man press…..

    the longer we keep grimes, the longer CB will be a need in the future….why not fill that need now…..GO BUCS!!!!!

  30. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    813bucboi, the problem is that Butler has not been good enough to rely on being a good signing. I’m for bringing him in depending on the reason for benching him, but there is no reason we cannot have Grimes and still get other CBs. No reason at all. And frankly, I think having Grimes around is important to the development of VHIII.

  31. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    Bandaids can be a good thing. They buy time for development.

  32. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    “the longer we keep grimes, the longer CB will be a need in the future…”

    I really should have read your entire post before commenting. lol

    I disagree with this statement completely. As I said above, get Grimes resigned AND sign/draft CBs. Competition is the mother of improvement.

  33. LUVMYBUCS Says:

    Worst pass defense in the League needs to get better & younger quick.

    Depending on a 35yr old corner – that’s showing signs of regression; is a recipe for
    disaster.

  34. 813bucboi Says:

    bonzai

    his benching isn’t rocket science….bill likes match ups….he thought eric rowe would be a better match up vs alshon jefferys….obviously he was wrong and was embarrassed to admit his mistakes by refusing to play butler but instead playing a someone that only got major snaps on ST…..it blown up in his face…..

    butler would be a great signing…..someone young hungry motivated and a proven winner…..

    grimes isn’t important to VHG development….COACHING IS…..good coaching is far more important to his development…..

    and the band aid thing hasnt worked at all….look at tj ward….look at baker….look at ayers…..look at grimes….they’re all band aids and our current needs are, DT, DE, S, CB……how can you develop a young player when the “band aid” is the starter and making 5, 6, 7 million dollars a year…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  35. pewterpirate99 Says:

    Buccaneer Bonzai Says:
    February 5th, 2018 at 10:46 am
    813bucboi, the problem is that Butler has not been good enough to rely on being a good signing. I’m for bringing him in depending on the reason for benching him, but there is no reason we cannot have Grimes and still get other CBs. No reason at all. And frankly, I think having Grimes around is important to the development of VHIII.

    I agree with you Buccaneer Bonzai. If VHIII is going to develop into anything, having Brent Grimes on the roster is the way to go. He’s one of the few if any bright spots we’ve had on the defense this year. He’s a very good resource for these young players to have. Not to mention the guy can still ball.

  36. godzilla13 Says:

    If the Bucs do not re-sign Brent Grimes then you are tied down to drafting a CB in the first round. Sign Grimes and go after either Aqib Talib, Morris Claiborne or Malcolm Butler. If you look at the free agents available the only one as good as Grimes is Claiborne. That just shows you how good Grimes still is. Do not give up on Vernon Hargreaves. He played great in a couple of games and that hamstring injury probably effected him more than people realize. I agree to change the secondary scheme to man press. Draft a DE/DT in rounds one and two and watch this defense kick arse.

  37. 813bucboi Says:

    bonzai

    LUVMYBUCS Says:
    February 5th, 2018 at 10:53 am
    Worst pass defense in the League needs to get better & younger quick.
    Depending on a 35yr old corner – that’s showing signs of regression; is a recipe for disaster.

    ^^BINGO^^

    cant develop your young CB’s if you have a 35 year old band aid making 7 million playing in front of them…..resigning grimes would put us in the same position next year….then we’ll have to “reach” in the draft or “settle” in FA….

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  38. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    FA’s are always a gamble…why is the other team letting them go? However re-signing your own FA’s is always safer because you know EXACTLY what you’re getting.

    Re-sign Brent Grimes NOW!!! Unless Miko wants an absurd payday. Pay him market value.

    I’m growing weary of all this age talk. It’s 2018 not 1956. Have you not seen the commercials…40 is the new 30…50 the new 40 and 60 the new 50. BTW the 60 year old lady is the hottest of the three in that ad.

    Did you guys see who carried the Lombardi trophy out for presentation. Darrell Green who still looks great. He was balling out in his early 40’s.

    Grimes still has plenty of hops left and he’s still got closing speed on the ball when it’s up in the air. Re-sign him and then get Talib, Butler, or another available FA and we won’t have to waste any draft picks on our DB’s until next year. We need all of our picks for the trenches and perhaps a RB.

  39. martinii Says:

    Yes, Butler is a system player, but he is used to winning and could bring a winning attitude to a team that’s biggest need is a winning attitude. I like Grimes and hope he plays another year. I am not sure about Hargreave, so he is an unknown, Throw together a few winners in free agency and it might became contagious. One other tidbit, joe wrote about Patrick Johnson earlier. I swear unless he was on special teams, I sure didn’t see the guy.

  40. Ndog Says:

    Every this topic comes up everyone is always saying either /or but why not resign Grimes AND sign a young free agent corner? Keep VH3 in the slot and the two good corners on the outside. Instantly our seconary is much better but it still all come down to our putrid pass rush. That must get the most attention.

  41. 813bucboi Says:

    He’s a very good resource for these young players to have.

    and you think a 2time SB champion wont be a good resource for ryan smith and VHG?…..

    the thing is, grimes has different skill sets than VHG and RS….those 2 are both man press CB’S….grimes is not…..

    grimes (and smitty) trying to teach VHG and RS to play soft/off coverage has them looking like fish out of water…..they’re think way too much….it has been a disaster…..grimes doesn’t play man press…..too small and he has lost a step or 2 in his top end speed….he’s still quick as a cat and that’s why he excels at soft/off coverage…..

    now if you pair RS and VHG, 2 man press CB’s with another veteran man press CB in butler, he can teach them techniques and tricks to the game that would elevate their play…..that would help RS and VHG develop as they play to their strengths…..

    out of RS, VHG and grimes only grimes excels in this scheme…..so smitty and licht have a big decision to make…..play to the strength of 1 CB while hindering the development of 2 younger CB and hanging them out to dry….or playing to the strength of your 2 young CB’s and signing another veteran man press CB to help with their development…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!

  42. SOEbuc Says:

    Joe

    ‘”Would Butler really want to go from the NFL penthouse to the NFC’s dungeon?”

    If there’s enough money they will usually do it.

  43. 813bucboi Says:

    we won’t have to waste any draft picks on our DB’s until next year.

    LOL…..this is the problem….lol….

    we’ve been saying this for 2 years now…..this would put us in the same position we’re in now…..still needing a CB…..why not sign butler and ej gaines….or butler and r.melvin….that’s a top tier cb and a mid tier cb….2 veteran man press cb’s to help develop your young man press cbs…..

    I rather get rid of a player a too early vs keeping him a year too late…..2016 he played at a higher level….2017 he was injured and his play dipped a bit…..its time to get younger…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  44. denjoe Says:

    He’s better than what we have signed right now.

  45. Bucsfanman Says:

    We need to get better, NOW. And younger! I don’t feel like we MUST sign Grimes. It wouldn’t hurt to have him on the roster, but the notion of breaking the bank to get him is absurd. How can we be sure he won’t completely regress at 36/37?! Injuries?

  46. Maze Says:

    He would be a nice consolation prize if the Bucs somehow cannot land the much better Trumaine Johnson as a free agent

  47. Joeypoppems Says:

    Why cant we resign Grimes and sign Butler? You guys are making it out like it has to be one or the other.

  48. MadMax Says:

    @LUV, i feel where you’re coming from…..but my instincts on this one points opposite of your take. He has 1 more year. That early injury hit him hard. But enough time has passed for healing and he’ll be ready again….pick up Talib and another FA….get our D line fixed, we’ll be looking much better.

  49. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    @813

    I hear you and largely agree. I’m cool with any combo of signings that lets up put off wasting any draft picks on DB’s.

    We have a desperate need for DL’s and at least one functional RB. And in fact if we don’t fix our DL IMHO it doesn’t really matter who plays DB because any NFL QB will toast them if given enough time…especially the QB’s in our division.

    I really worry about our DL. I do not believe the FA crop will be that good so we’re down to drafting 2 or even 3 given the 50% fail rate expected out of draft picks. Furthermore DL’s take a while to develop so expecting to draft a starting stud is asking a lot. The legendary Warren Sapp only started 8 games and had just three sacks.

    I think a large part of our fate hinges on the health of Noah’s shoulder. Remember the summer camp in Jax when the Jag players who see great DL everyday in practice were raving about Noah. I believe he’s the real deal IF he can get healthy.

  50. Pierce Says:

    I think if we want him we’ll have to overpay him. Otherwise why go to a losing franchise?

  51. Kobe Faker's Girl Says:

    Build both lines!

    Its a passing league

    At the Superbowl,we witnessed two prolific offenses’s passing attacks because of the offensive line

    “Build both trenches”

    The Buc Realist & Kandy Faker

  52. Marc Says:

    You ppl still don’t get it. For how many years do we have to acquire talent in the defensive backfield for you to realize that it’s not the DBs, ITS THE D-LINEMEN. OUR D-LINE HAS BEEN AWFUL FOR YEARS AND YEARS THATS WHY OUR DBS ALWAYS APPEAR TO BE AWFUL. GET SOME BADASSES ALONG DLINE FOR CHRIST’S SAKE!!!

  53. Phil Says:

    Butler needs to understand that state income tax in Florida is a lot less than it is in Massachusetts.

  54. C eh N eh D eh Says:

    Butler missed a curfew and was caught with weed the night before the big game…YEAH, bring him to Tampa, sounds like he fits LOL…great character guy…

  55. webster Says:

    @ 813buc

    Why do you continue to push false narratives. Mike smith does not play soft zones. How many times do i have to point this out? Jbf even wrote an article on this very topic where mike smith said he gives the corners latitude to determine their own cushion comfortability just like most if not all dc around the league.

    Fyi…….reports are butler missed curfew, was caught with weed and went off on coaches. That makes a lot more sense then the coaches just deciding not to play a player who played the most snaps on defense for your team at 98%.

  56. JimmyJack Says:

    813 I do agree money talks. But I’m also trying to point out that it’s nearly that simple. Believe what you will but not all people are the same. Most of these guys have family’s and some of them likely will despite to stay in the place they call home. Might even take less money to do so. Some of the guys you think the Bucs should target may not have a choice in the matter with the franchise tags.

    Aside from that there is a laundry list of reasons why some players may not even consider the Bucs:
    1) They may want play for a contending team.
    2)They may want to stay in a certain region of the country or they city they grew up in.
    3)They may want to play for a team because of the players they will be with
    4)Players talk and players sometimes reject teams from bad rumors about player treatment…..I doubt that’s the case here but with Dirk being possibly seen as a dead man walking that could affect the decision.

    Now maybe each and every player on LUVs list makes it to free agency and considers an offer from any team that calls and simply chooses the highest one. But that’s a big fat maybe and a big risk if the Bucs are betting on it.

    It’s a fun game to look at a list of players and handpick who we want but aside from the four reasons I mentioned there’s plenty more to complicate things. Grimes is a good and capable player and you know exactly what your getting if they can keep him here. Signing Grimes represents stability and his age isn’t all that big a deal when you factor in that it allows you to develope one or more players behind him……..You wanna sign 2 guys who want long term deal in one offseason your basically your whole future backfield with guys who have never worn pewter before. Not my ideal of a winning formula

  57. Rod Munch Says:

    You guys who whine and complain about Jacksonville turning it around and why the Bucs can’t do the same thing – you might want to look at how Jacksonville got people to go to that dump of a city. The only reason anyone went there was because Jacksonville overpaid them. Those that think you just nickle and dime people and they’ll sign because it’s the Bucs – we’ll you’re not going to do well in the free market. The question is if Butler is an upgrade or not – if he is, then you pay him – but no one is coming here because they want to be here. Win and in a couple of years that can change.

  58. JimmyJack Says:

    @webster…..Good point man. I too blamed Smith for the soft coverage until I read you posting about that.

    Sometimes us fans can do more harm to ourselves. It’s kinda hard to remember one article amongst hundreds, maybe thousands, of fan posts blaming Smith for the soft coverages.

    I’m going to join your narrative about the false rumors of Smiths soft zone scheme.

  59. NFLNut Says:

    Malcolm can play, has a ton of heart, a championship pedigree, plays with a chip on his shoulder, and has 3 prime years left … I could see a 5 year contract with the first 3 years guaranteed … but I’d want him as the #2 and Grimes as the #1 if possible …

  60. Mbfg Says:

    All this talk about character issues talib bennett blount penn all had character issues and all have rings or went on to be great players the bucs need character not a bunch of soft minded players that cant play tough

  61. 813bucboi Says:

    STPETE

    I agree….im worried about the dline too!!!….

    Webster

    no one is putting out false narratives…..smitty said one thing….VHG sure said the complete opposite….and smitty allowing cbs to determine their own comfortability is BS…..why didn’t he instruct VHG and RS where to play since it was obvious they were struggling and haven’t found their comfort level playing off?….Joe has wrote about this also……so in other words smitty allowed the cb to fail without making any adjustments to their game or his defense….he just said,” go out there and figure it out”…..that’s just bad coaching…..allowing a player to fail over and over again without trying to see what works for the player is bad coaching…..everyone noticed how much better VHG played when he was in the slot and it aint because he was covering the 3rd wr….it was because he’s more comfortable and thrives at playing close to the LOS getting physical with the wr….man press is his strength…as is RS…..

    regarding butler, I guess I was wrong about why he was benched…..i’ll take that…I mean the reports just came out earlier today lol….

    pairing 2 young man press cbs with a veteran man press cb is a lot smarter then pairing them a 35year old soft/off coverage vet that may be out the door in a year….he was injured and his play dipped a bit….that trend will continue…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!!

  62. JimmyJack Says:

    Sounds good Nut…….Then spend a 4th or 5th on a CB and let he and R.Smith and even VHIII grow and learn behind our seasoned vets. Winning formula IMO

  63. JimmyJack Says:

    Based off of sheer memory whatI recall reading on this site was M.Smith saying that he was urging and working to get VHIII to play on the hip more.

    Now why that never happened and why Vernon remained playing off-man is all hear say.

    In either case Hargreaves was seen playing tighter coverages(mostly in 2016).
    He has been very underwhelming in his two seasons here. Sometimes a guy is just a flat out bust. Can’t blame coaching for everything.

    Any player should get three years before getting written off IMO. There’s still 2018

  64. 813bucboi Says:

    jimmy

    I agree players have different reasons for staying or going but at the end of the day its always about money….take grimes for example….if he reaches FA and we offer him 8million but the redskins offer him 11million do you think miko will say nawl we good, we love FLA?….hell no because they know its a business and grimes wont be in the NFL business(as a player) much longer….you have to cash out and maximize your worth with each opportunity…..I think it all comes down to 2 things….money and winning….a player will take less money if they know they have a legit shot at winning or they’ll chase the money and say screw a ring…..

    and who says you have to sign both to a long term deal….we could sign a player like r.melvin or ej gaines to a contract similar to grimes or ayers….a 2 or 3 year deal….everyone wants a long term deal but everyone doesn’t get one……

    and as I mentioned above, I read that article too….smitty said one thing…VHG said another…..obviously, VHG and RS never found a comfort level playing off coverage….why didn’t smitty instruct them where to play?…..why didn’t he instruct them to play closer to the LOS?…or approximately 5 yards off nothing more nothing less….to witness them fail play after play game after game and not give them any instruction as to where to play so they can be successful and the defense be successful is just bad coaching…..I would think smitty would be more professional than that…..I don’t believe he just let them say figure it out….if that’s true then smitty and dirk need to go…..that horrible coaching…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  65. webster Says:

    @ 813

    Please show me where vh3 said the opposite. Bs? So i guess you missed when the entire buccaneer organization told vh3 to be more aggressive all offseason. Translation….where you line up. Yes its a false narrative that you spew. Like i said most if not all dc around the league give that same flexibility. I am sorry you are not aware of this and that is why you see it as smith putting players out there to “figure it out.” Buc fans, you really need to look teams other than just the bucs because you could gain a better understanding of how the nfl works. I will let you 813buc think smitty is telling them how many yards to play off. That will be your little secret.

  66. GhostofSchiano Says:

    I say sign Butler.

    1) instant improvement to our secondary

    2) experienced corner, championship seasoned

    3) Will be playing with a chip on his shoulder to prove Belichek was wrong

    4) fills a need

  67. webster Says:

    @813

    On october 11th 2017 jbf posted an article titled “mike smith says soft coverage is on hargreaves”. Read the [email protected] article again. Thats was during his weekly presser. Not sure how much clearer a coach can be. But you want us to take 813buc fake narrative who is not even in the locker room? Got it smdh

  68. 813bucboi Says:

    if I recall, smitty said he allows the cbs to play wherever they want to play…..when joe question VHG he said that’s where he’s suppose to line up….if I recall even joe thought something was fishy and asked himself the same question as I have…..

    why doesn’t smitty instruct them where to play instead of letting them fail play after play game after game…..isn’t that what “good” coaches do?…..

    VHG is nowhere near a bust…he’s simple playing in the wrong scheme….I want to see him and RS play close up at the LOS all thru TC, PS and the regular season…..then we can see if its talent or coaching….we have nothing to lose at this point…..their play cant get any worse….

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  69. GhostofSchiano Says:

    813bucboi Says: ….we have nothing to lose at this point…..their play cant get any worse….

    This is our beloved Bucs we are talking about here, oh it could get worse, a lot worse.

    This is where Jason Licht earns his pay, earn it Jason!!!

  70. darin Says:

    Unless the bucs outbid teams I cant see why any free agent would wana come here, especially on defense. This coaching staff really seems to be in over their heads. I hope dirk really didnt mean it when he said its tried and true. What a breath of fresh air watching Doug Pederson go in and completely outcoach belicheat. Love his aggressive mentailty and he exploits mismatches with the best of em. Extremely smart coach. Thats a guy who just needed a chance to be a HC. Theres more of them out there. Hopefully the glazers do their homework next time.

  71. JimmyJack Says:

    I just think it’s very difficult for JBF posters to not blame Smith for the coverage because when you read the comments Smith gets blamed over and over again for it.

    This is just somebody’s opinion of how the coverages are coached. That doesn’t make it a fact. But when you read hundreds of comments all rolling with the same opinion it starts to be seen as fact. At the end of the day it’s all just opinion and none of us know what’s being taught.

    Reminds me of Rays fans back in the day blaming Jim Hickey(pitching coach) for all of our hitting problems during our playoff seasons…..The opinion was so widspread it was begun to be seen as fact. Now you look back years later and you see that anybody who played for the team back in those years put up better hitting statistics then their career number actually were(which wasn’t very good). The problem was never the hitting coach. The problem was that we had a lineup full of bottom order hitters. 95% of fans blaming one guy for all our hitting problems and they were all wrong.

  72. webster Says:

    @ 813

    Again show me where vh3 said that. Dont give me if i recall crap. All that means you could be misinformed or making things up. As it relates to smitty telling them where to line up, how many times do i have to explain all dc give their corners flexibility. Why? Because all corners are different and the man they are assigned to is different. Translation, i expect a corner to line up against kelvin benjamin differently than brandin cooks if its man to man due to the speed. Its on the corner to determine their comfort level. Your zone depth assignment is different as well and it is on the corner to determine how far they need to play off in order to defend a quick slant or get back deep into coverage etc. Its bigger than just the dc simply saying line up 6 yards off on zone and 8 yrds off during man to man.

  73. webster Says:

    @ jimmy jack

    Why as a buc fan would we not want the truth and then have an opinion based on facts? Having opinions based off false hoods keeps us as the laughing stock fan base. Its crazy how many fan bases think tampa bay fans are idiots and spewing false hoods regardless of how much everyone wants to blame smith for everything does not help. Yes, i blame smith for not blizting more when we could not get consistent pressure because he didnt blitz much. I cant blame him for where i corners line up when he said out his mouth they have wiggle room. Players gotta make plays.

  74. JAB83 Says:

    Sign Butler…

    Keep Fatty Baker…

    Catering for Breakfast Lunch and Dinner is covered…

    Only thing on the menu is W’s

  75. Lee Says:

    Broke curfew and had marijuana on him.

  76. 813bucboi Says:

    Webster

    “CONCERNED” Oct. 18th

    Bucs defensive coordinator Mike Smith stated he gives his corners a bit of freedom on where to line up. If they prefer giving initial cushion while best covering their their man, so be it.

    Problem is, receivers are taking advantage of Hargreaves and his cushions. So Joe thinks, to a degree, what Smith is saying is sort of a cop out.

    If Hargreaves is giving up too much space, comfort or not, it’s the responsibility of the coaches to tell Hargreaves to get his arse closer to the receiver whether he likes it or not. The goal here is not comfort, but to win games and that comes about when players are able to execute properly.
    ***************************************************************

    myself and joe has called BS on that notion….even joe thinks its a cop out…..he has the right to tell a cb where to line up if the cb is not making plays…..that’s poor coaching….as joe said, it about winning not “being flexible/comfortable”

    its time for you to hold smitty accountable….he aint getting the job done and that’s a fact…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  77. 813bucboi Says:

    Webster

    sounds like a mouth full of excuses for smitty…..how can VHG go from having a solid rookie year to losing his starting job and looking clueless?…..other defensive players have regressed under his watch as well…..but I guess its because of talent…..riiiggghhhttttt….

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!!…..GO BUCS!!!!!

  78. webster Says:

    @ 813

    I can care less if you and joe called bs. Joe has been wrong on many fronts ie if your starting qb goes down, your season is screwed. You calling bs does not make it fact, it makes it an opinion based off of no facts. Fact….You said hargreaves said smith told him where to line up and you were wrong ie false hood. Im still waiting on you to show me the hargreaves quote.

  79. webster Says:

    I dont know what you call solid, but a player in hargreaves as a rookie was the only cornerback to allow over 1000 yrds received on him. He only had 1 int. That is why the entire organization told him to be more aggressive. Your and my definition of solid is two different things

  80. 813bucboi Says:

    Webster

    well @joe aint wrong about smitty…..

    and to clarify I said VHG said he’s playing the defense how he’s suppose to(ie how he was told to do)…..smitty said he lets players play where ever they want…..

    one things for sure, its obvious smitty doesn’t instruct his cbs where to play(he should if they’re failing) and its obvious he doesn’t adjust his scheme……

    VHG is playing the defense exactly how smitty wants which is causing RS and VHG to fail…..

    now if you cant get that then no one can help you…..

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  81. 813bucboi Says:

    and joes…..and plenty of others…..his play was solid…..not great and sure not as bad as this……I guess you expect every 1st rounder to be like deion as rookies…..

    bye Felicia!!!!

    #NOEXCUSESIN2018!!!!….GO BUCS!!!!

  82. webster Says:

    Hargreaves rookie stats

    Targeted the most
    Gave up the most receptuons
    gave up the most yards
    6th in tds given up
    Just for the cherry on top…gave up the most fantasy points

    Yea thats real solid.

  83. DB55 Says:

    Let Grimes walk and wish him the best. ✌🏽

  84. webster Says:

    Dude,

    Go back and read your quote….you wrote ” if I recall, smitty said he allows the cbs to play wherever they want to play…..when joe question VHG he said that’s where he’s suppose to line up….if I recall even joe thought something was fishy and asked himself the same question as I have”

    Not sure what you are trying to back track from. Like i said smitty gives flexibility like all coordinators and im waiting on you to show me where hargreaves said he was lining up where smith told him as your quote above suggest. And no he is not playing the defense as smitty is instructing because he would not have been benched. Again, you missed where the gm, head coach and dc said he needs to be more aggressive. He wasnt and that is why he was benched. If you cant get that then you just want to run with your alternative facts. And why do you feel the need to validate your “opinion” with other’s “opinion”. I dont care if other posters thought vh3 had a solid rookie year. The numbers and his play told a very different story hence the entire organization telling him to be more aggressive. He played timid as a rookie. Thats not solid. And your comprehension skills are lacking but i shouldnt expect anything else. I never got on vh3 for sucking as a rookie. I stated fact that he struggle. The only reason i am in this debate with you because you keep spewing false hoods/ alternative facts of smitty’s defensive philosophy which i also proved you wrong where you only provided opinions. Bye felicia indeed

  85. 13frain Says:

    Maybe he can slip into TJ Ward’s spot on the bench
    https://nypost.com/2018/02/05/malcolm-butlers-ex-teammate-weed-curfew-led-to-benching/

  86. FuNkYxMuNkEy Says:

    If Chicago somehow let’s Fuller leave then he should be our #1 target. Butler is good but I would take Fuller over him any day.

    The Bucs must sign a few free agents to help out our defense. Fuller would be a great starting point.

  87. StPeteBucsFan Says:

    “Unless the bucs outbid teams I cant see why any free agent would wana come here”

    Perhaps they would enjoy living in paradise. I know I do! Seriously…obviously $$$ play into this but this manure about coaches is just that…manure.

    Neither Koetter nor Smitty is a brand new coach. Smitty btw won a Coach of the Year award with his 13 win season in Atlanta. As somebody said these guys have been around a LONG time they didn’t suddenly forget how to coach.

    Can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear. We were seriously lacking in our DL and especially our pass rush…this makes our DB’s look even worse than they are and the LB’s too. It’s still a TEAM sport and if a chain is only as strong as it’s weakest link it’s pretty clear why we sucked. Get a freaking pass rush!!! I tell you again…if Noah is not totally healthy our pass rush is probably hosed again. Hard to draft even a great DE and have him come in and produce from day one…and of course there’s that 50-50 shot he’ll be a bust. Draft 3 or 4 DE’s….a couple of college studs and a couple of projects in the late rounds.

  88. USFBUC Says:

    You guys citing drugs and a lack of ability are missing that this was done by the greatest coach of all time, who loves playing mind games. I think Belichick was trying to tank Butler’s value in FA. Look at all the negative press about Butler now and the wild speculation about his character and sudden lack of “real” talent.

    A guy doesn’t take all of the snaps and suddenly become a bad matchup. The Pats have multiple FAs to sign and they are just driving the price down on the most expensive one. If it was a discipline issue like some are saying, then why play him at all? Or why not bench him and then bring him into the game? By still allowing Butler to play special teams and not putting him in at CB after a quarter tells me it wasn’t a discipline thing like some think.

    Looking at his stats his play from a INT, tackles, passes defensed, weren’t abnormal. I can’t find his completion percentage against numbers so we don’t have a full picture of his performance but the fact is you don’t suddenly forget how to play your position.

  89. Not there yet Says:

    Dudes good but he’s not all that. Here’s what he is because of great coaching, you’d see just how average he would look with a below average coaching staff.

  90. El_Buc941 Says:

    Sign Grimes to a 3yr deal,get Butler on 5yr deal and we are set.

  91. Drew aka q Says:

    Lol people saying dont overpay… yep we surely missed out when we get cheap… i.e calias campbell ect ect ect