Kick-In-The-Gut Jameis Data

July 15th, 2017

Skewered by numbers

It’s not all sunshine and daisies on the resumé of America’s Quarterback, Jameis Winston, especially at the professional level.

One stats freak did a great job noting that this week.

A fantasy football analysis Joe read on CBSSports.com, included data collection of Peter Bukowski on Twitter. Warning: it may cause nausea, or as the Custodian of Canton calls it on the Ira Kaufman Podcast, agita.

@Peter_Bukowski – Jameis Winston threw more picks relative to attempts than Brock Osweiler, Bortles, and Eli last season. Only 3 regular starters worse … Remind me again what evidence we have Jameis will be an elite passer. 23rd in comp %, 27th in int %, 16th in YPA, 21st in passer rating. … Any suggestion Winston is a top-10 QB or can be, is based on his college eval, because we haven’t seen any on-field evidence to support it.

It always looks ugly when you’re throwing more picks per attempt than Blake Bortles. But some of that data certainly is deceiving when not every pick is the quarterback’s fault, or when a late-game or late-half bomb lands in the hands of the opponent.

As Dirk Koetter so eloquently said two years ago, “all that anyone gives a sh*t in this league about is Ws.”

No truer words have been spoken, so Joe prefers to focus on Jameis’ 9-7 record last season as a 22-year-old QB. That’s what matters most.

That written, Jameis has many areas in which to improve significantly. And that’s what makes this season so damn exciting, since adding O.J. Howard, Chris Godwin and DeSean Jackson should give him the necessary tools to advance.

47 Responses to “Kick-In-The-Gut Jameis Data”

  1. Kalind Says:

    This is clown math.

  2. AJ Del Says:

    I’ve been seeing a lot of CBS people bashing Jameis recently. Heath Cummings even went as a far as saying “Jameis doesn’t belong…” in a poll comparing Carr & Mariotta to Winston (Jul 13th). They should be eating crow come January.

  3. BushidoEvans Says:

    Yea…but I got eyes though…so…yea. Thanks though.

  4. BucEmUp Says:

    I love Jameis, I love his approach, attitude, work ethic, determination….his ability to motivate the entire roster. However, this is all true, these aren’t hideen between the crack stats. He has shown to be erratic and inaccurate at times. Mariotta and Carr are and probably always will be more accurate passers, but do they get they’re guys playing as hard as Jameis does his? I’ve always said when he’s hot he’s ON, but when he’s off man its ugly. Hopefully that improves as he ages and I believe that it will. Most of his ugly moments have been when he appears to be over hyped, or too much in the moment. When he’s calm and collective he can’t be stopped. Problem is it’s hard to be calm and collective when your being chased around the backfield before anyone can get open. Marietta and Carr both had very impressive play from they’re o-line last season and both had a better run game to back it up. Lot’s of different angles to look at his numbers from. I think we have the right man at HC to bring it all together!

  5. feelthepewterpower Says:

    I lost count how many times the ball was deflected last year that turned into an interception. Hell, Jameis’ first INT of the year was vs. Atlanta and the receiver ran the wrong route and threw the ball to the area the receiver was supposed to be on that play.

    Sure, Jameis had miscues…..but they werent all his fault. Jameis had one TD taken off the board then threw his worst pass of the year vs. seattle in the end zone for a pick.

  6. Pickgrin Says:

    “Remind me again what evidence we have Jameis will be an elite passer”

    @Peter_Bukowski – Might help if you were to ever watch Winston play instead of looking strictly at a skewed statsheet – D!ickweed!!

  7. Cover Deuce Says:

    This was his long winded, pedantic way of saying Jamies needs to protect the football better (which, I mean, DUH). Also, it’s difficult to be a 22 y/o QB with no run game, below average pass-pro, and mostly UDFAs to throw to. The stats definitely matter, but the context matters way more.

  8. Tampabaybucfan Says:

    Jameis has a tendency to throw the high-hard-one…..over the middle and those get picked after the tip.
    I’d like to see more screens and short passes this year……Djax can turn a 10 yard pass into a 40……& I suspect Howard can do some of that also.

  9. Buccaneer scotty Says:

    Wrap it anyway you want he needs to be more careful with the ball period!

  10. passthebuc Says:

    AS he gets older he should become wiser.

  11. Defense Rules Says:

    Not sure at all what’s happening here Joe. Ever since OTAs ended Jameis has had a target on his back for some reason. Numerous articles here & elsewhere about his accuracy problems, his INTs, not processing fast enough, etc. Folks need to put all this in perspective & knock off the Jameis-bashing.

    Jameis had TWO yrs of college ball … TWO. Not 3 or 4 like most … TWO. He came to a team that was 2-14 when he arrived. Again … 2-14. That’s not a good team folks (and yes, that’s an understatement). He didn’t go to the Cowboys with their 5-star OLine or to one of the teams with a 5-star defense. Nope, the Bucs … with all our problems … drafted him. We knew what we were getting, and we knew it’d take time for him to mature into a true franchise QB.

    In the measly 2 yrs he’s been here, we’ve gone from a 2-14 record, to a 6-10 record to a 9-7 record. Maybe I’m naive, but that sounds like progress to me. Each of those 2 yrs Jameis threw for over 4,000 yds and kept Lord-knows how many plays alive with his scrambling. His completion % improved last yr, albeit with not the greatest cast of receiving talent. Lots of tight windows primarily because guys weren’t getting open. Ya there were some deflections, but every QB is going to have some of those. 18 INTs last yr isn’t a good thing, but guess what … half of those INTs (9) occurred in just 3 games (all losses). Jameis threw 9 INTs in the other 13 games (probably average for the NFL?) and led the team to a 9-4 record in those games (with the help of some outstanding defense I should add).

    Jameis isn’t perfect by any means, but he & the coaches undoubtedly have a good handle on what to work on. And to Mr. Bukowski who wrote “Any suggestion Winston is a top-10 QB or can be, is based on his college eval, because we haven’t seen any on-field evidence to support it” I’d say … horsepuckey. Save your criticism until the end of this season, and then you can eat your words.

  12. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    I’m not sweating bullets. Jameis has shown that he is fully dedicated to becoming elite…and he puts in the work to do it.

    So let these twits in other markets say what they want. He’ll just stomp their fav team.

  13. lurker Says:

    jameis has a long way to go, yet

  14. lurker Says:

    also, someone stated that jameis would take us to the superbowl in his third year!
    i’m excited, and can’t wait.

  15. GoBucYourself Says:

    I just love it when fanboys embrace stats that support their position and dismiss them if they don’t.

  16. Howard Cosell Says:

    Smokin’ Jay Cutler has a pretty good TD/Int ratio.
    Maybe we should trade for him?

  17. bucnut2 Says:

    Exactly. when one looks at JW objectively he has been anything but elite. Let’s hope he improves markedly this year, otherwise we are going nowhere.

  18. Nole4JabooANDdBucs Says:

    @defenserules
    I AGREE with every word you typed!
    What crystal ball are some of these ppl gazing in?
    Maybe they ARE basing it off of OTA where QB perfection isn’t the only goal, the goal is to TEST what you can and cannot get away with.
    A lot of players play GREAT but that doesn’t make them GREAT!

    Those elite players show GREATNESS when on the biggest stage or the lights come on they show they have IT, with much swag determination and GRIT!!! It’s not all skillset it is mindset!

    Eliteness isn’t ALL skill, technique and being coached up. One day you will look ELITE QB up in the dictionary and you will see Jamie’s 🤗name next to it, with ALL his SWAG and GLORY!
    Hopefully it will be with the Bucs🙃

    Footnote Jordan, Ali etc…
    Let’s not get it twisted…follow the swag along with the this team of young Bucs will take us there…ho Bucs☠

  19. FONZ BUCCARELLII Says:

    Statistics can be manipulated to show any angle wanted, I.E ( based on attempts). Well we can also manipulate the numbers to show that @Jaboo has had a better first two years in the league than Andrew Luck and isn’t he viewed as a top QB already let alone top tier QB potential?

    Wtf? Just another hater trying to take @Jaboo down!

    I’ll take @jaboo plus 10 cheerleaders on the field any day over the Bums and their teams this clown is trying to pass as QB equals……,

    @Jaboo Certified Stick Carrier!

    Go BUCS!

  20. webster Says:

    Last i checked, no buc fan called jameis elite. Last i checked, you dont need an elite qb to win the superbowl ie flaco, eli etc.. you need a team to win a superbowl. Dont fool yourselves, jameis is good enough right now to win a superbowl if a team was built the right way.

  21. Supersam Says:

    Make or break year for Winston. Period. Put up or shut up. Enough talk enough ifs and butts, let’s see it Winston. You can talk the talk, I’ve yet to see you walk the walk. You have everything you need this year, no excuses.

  22. Supersam Says:

    Don’t matter how much he says he wants to be “elite”. Shut up and let’s see it.

  23. Supersam Says:

    He talk to much, wastes to much energy dancing around like a dodo bird before games trying to be “cool” I’ve yet to see Brady manning Matt Ryan or even Russell Wilson tossing his helmet up in the air pregame to “hype” up his players. Maybe that’s why Winstons stats are so miserable in the first quarter? He’s exhausted from pre game dancing. Just a thought.

  24. Bucs1856 Says:

    It’s funny it was such a shocker to you joe. Don’t get me wrong we all want Jameis to be great. But the only stat everyone talks about is 4000 yards 2 years in a row. However, other than that he was a pretty average qb last year. Hopefully finally having another WR will cut down on turnovers.

  25. Pickgrin Says:

    Supersam Says:
    “Just a thought”

    Don’t hurt yourself there MM lover…

  26. DBS Says:

    See There is your problem. Jameis did not have a 9-7 season. The Buccaneers had a 9-7 season. You and your Lone Wolf attitude . You can’t blame everyone else when things go wrong and just want to credit Jameis when they win. Before you were all he does this and that, 4000 yards hoop la. Don’t credit the receivers or anyone else. But now someone points out faults and you say never mind I will just look at the wins HE has because Dirk said that’s all that matters.

    Somebody said 9 of those ints were in 3 Games and we lost. So. Which of those 3 games did he keep us out of the playoffs with? Or were those only counted as “Team Games”. And “Team Losses”.

  27. DB55 Says:

    Who took more hits and sacks? Carr, MM or Jameis? I rest my case. Mic drop

  28. NFLNut Says:

    Hahahaha, what a joke … Jameis is the most accomplished QB of his age in the history of football … Peyton Manning threw ONE HUNDRED INTERCEPTIONS in his first 5 years so apparently anyone who thought Manning would become elite was basing that on nothing more than his excellence at the University of Tennessee (where he didn’t win a title or Heisman by the way)? What a joke …

  29. ben Says:

    Yes , i believe M.M. is and will be a better qb but since i am a bucs fan Winston is the qb that matters. I do feel he is not a top 10 qb but maybe with the weapons this year his accuracy will greatly improve.

  30. Buccfan37 Says:

    Jameis and the improving Bucs will shut up the naysayers soon. Then those types can slink back into the shadows as buffoons. My favorite pic of Jameis here is the one of him dancing in the locker room with that serious scowl as the coaches and players look on. That pic cracks me up every time.

  31. gotbbucs Says:

    The play calling needs to improve, more underneath routes with YAC in mind, the running game needs to be halfway decent, and Winston needs to quit forcing balls. I can handle some gunslinger stuff if they have a two score lead.

    Winston is nowhere near being above benefit of doubt. He probably has more to prove on this team than any other player.
    I’m still nervous with every snap he takes.

  32. Buc727 Says:

    You don’t pass for 8,000 yards and 50 tds in your first 2 years being inaccurate. You throw the ball where the receiver can catch it, period. As far as I am concerned, so far, so good.
    In my eyes, there have only been two issues with Jameis play. One being slow starts, which I think that better play calling can and will help. The second issue is the offensive line. At times the line’s play has been just that, offensive. I feel that with the return of Sweezy and moving Marpet to Center, plus another year of the other guys playing together in the system, will make them a more cohesive and effective unit.

  33. Bucfan1 Says:

    Just watch the guy play.. After watching what he does on the field I don’t care what his stats are, he’s a winner and will do whatever it takes to win. 3rd and 19? Scraps and claws for a 20 yard scramble! He may never be the “safest” QB but I’ll take what he brings any given Sunday

  34. Buccaneer Bonzai Says:

    You know what makes Winston better than MM or Carr? He stays healthy.

    Winston took a ton of hits and did not go down. At all. Neither of those other guys can say that.

    Just like Adrian Peterson, possibly the best of all time at RB, could not stay healthy, therefore he never really helped his team accomplish anything.

    Also, as I’ve said elsewhere…we all know Winston is not elite yet. He’s made mistakes. But he also works hard to overcome them. Most of his picks were WRs fault (battered up, for example). Drops contributed to incompletions in a big way. He probably would have reached 5,000 yards last year if not for the drops and bad OL play.

    I had wanted MM in that draft, but I am much more satisfied with JW.

  35. Mort Says:

    Jamie’s is a lot of things – ballsy, energetic, passionate, even a bit reckless… but he isn’t erratic. Josh Freeman was erratic. This man is no Josh Freeman.

  36. Bobby Says:

    It takes a complete team for a young QB to excel. Our running game sucked last year. We had Mike Evans and Cameron Brate as targets and Brate was battling injuries too. This will be the first year with a complete arsenal of weapons. If he struggles with the same issues this year then I’ll be concerned but right now I’m just excited.

  37. destinjohnny Says:

    there is soooooo much to like above 3. Mainly how proud he is.
    But>>>>>>>>. He has problems with his consistency.
    he will never be a bust but.. will he be a top 10 qb

  38. destinjohnny Says:

    like about 3 i meant to say

  39. Hail2dabucs Says:

    Plain &simple folks. As above mentioned , jameis had 2 years of college ball. He’s been in the NFL 2.that means last season would have been his SR year of college football and would have been drafted this year if he would have stayed at FSU all 4.a rookie people! Why else would he be so young ? He’s gonna be just fine.just my thoughts

  40. BushidoEvans Says:

    @supersam What about Drew Brees though? Yea…kinda end that whole argument.

  41. Jimmy Says:

    BushidoEvans:

    Supersam is a known Jameis hater. He’d rather have Mike Glennon and/or Josh McCown. Jameis could have a repeat of the Pitt game he had at FSU and Supersam would want him benched for throwing two incompletions in the game.

  42. Jimmy Says:

    Also pretty sure Supersam has his panties bunched up about Jameis because he doesn’t have the right look, if you get my drift.

  43. Rusty Says:

    Tom Brady first 2 years as a starter had 46 TD and 26 int.JW 50 TD and 33 int.Pretty close stats.

  44. Bob in Valrico Says:

    Protecting the ball may the key factor in Jameis’s quest to become elite.
    factor fumbles lost in the above comparison to Tom brady, and brady had
    only 28 turnovers compared to 41 for Jameis.To Jameis credit since he started
    as a rookie some things have to be learned under fire whereas as some other
    elite QB’s such as Aaron Rogers sat on the bench for several years.

  45. stpetebucsfan Says:

    No suprise…D.R. for the win. Great post!

    There is a Zen saying…you see where you place your attention! Look at #3’s picks and you see one thing…look at his 4,000 yards each of the first two years or that MIRACLE run for the first down against Atlanta and that play he kept alive forever..running around like a chicken with his head cut off…and then makes the miracle pass to Evans! #3 has more mind boggling highlights in the Bucs past two seasons than the franchise had gotten from QB in it’s entire history.

    NO GUTS NO GLORY. Yes #3 is cranked by gametime….does anybody here believe Brady or Ryan could have made that play against Atlanta or Chicago?
    C’mon Man!!!!

    So let’s look at the picks. I’ll allow my attention to go there for this thread.
    Picks come for many reasons…football is a team sport.

    And so possible reasons for picks…

    1.) Inexperience and getting confused by NFL defenses. This happens to EVERY QB expected to start as a rookie. And please no Dax BS…he had great receivers…a massive perhaps best in the league OL…talented receivers…and one of the best RB’s in the league on a running team! So anybody with eyes can see that #3 has had the same growing pains. He’s a hard worker and with the better players around him that should improve.

    2.) Greed…failure to accept when a play is dead. Yes this is a fault of #3 and even DK has addressed it…quickly adding what a delicate balance that is with a player of #3’s tremendous potential…you do not want to kill whatever enabled that freaking run against Atlanta or those miraculous pass plays. I do not expect miracles here! I expect int’s from #3. If he tosses enough TD’s to add to that 9 win level I so not care. I’m what DK described…at the end of the day all that counts are the W’s….D.R.’s point was spot on.

    3.) Weak team around the QB…does anybody think #3 was gifted like Dax?
    The best OL in the league…great RB…talented WR’s..and a TE who is getting close to a bordeline HOF career?

    Weak teams also cause another source of int’s…if you’re always trying to come from behind and you’re always playing catchup game situations force the QB and the OC to take more chances as the game slips away.

    I wish to conclude for a question for all. Who would you rather have than #3 under center for us this year. Yeah Brady and Rodgers are better at this point…and if you’re talking about one game for all the marbles I get those who would go that route…as for me call me a homer…but I honestly and seriously would not trade #3 for anybody in the league at this point.

    Minnesota or bust and #3 gives us a great chance to get there!

  46. BigHogHaynes Says:

    Super spasm:: your a Jack-A$$!!

  47. Supersam Says:

    I’d rather be a jackass than a fat hog… cool name. Not.

 

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