How Many To Overpay?
February 22nd, 2016
For 2016, will GM Jason Licht decide to overpay anyone?
Joe is all in favor of Vincent Jackson playing the last year of his Bucs contract and earning the nearly $10 million due him in 2016.
But Joe also recognizes that represents overpaying Jackson.
He wouldn’t get that cash elsewhere. That’s not what 33-year-old receivers earn when coming of multiple knee injuries, even if they’re good, like Jackson is.
So this evokes the questions, “How many Bucs should be overpaid?” and, “Is it better to overpay Jackson for one season, or overpay Doug Martin for one season via the franchise tag (roughly $11.5 million)?”
A logic expert might pick Martin, who is younger and had a greater impact last year. Joe says pay them both.
Bucs overlord of football operations Jason Licht is the man with the answers. Based on his past comments, it seems Licht is eager and willing to overpay Jackson, as well as cornerback Alterraun Verner.
But Martin? Well, it’s unclear where Licht stands as negotiations with Martin continue.
A wild card here might be Logan Mankins, who is set to earn $7 million this season. Mankins hasn’t decided whether he’ll play, and perhaps Licht would decide to use that money to help overpay the aforementioned players.
Joe is confident there is one guy who won’t be overpaid (again) in 2016. That’s sackless defensive end George Johnson.
February 22nd, 2016 at 8:51 am
Why pay Jackson 10 million when we can get Marvin jones and Travis Benjamin both under 26 for the same money we pay vjax I like vjax and he’s one of a very few free agents to work out in Tampa but this is a business and the right business decision is to upgrade the roster without throwing away money on an injury prone old receiver it’s not only about next year also why are cutting Doug in 2 years I know next years running back draft class is outstanding but who knows what draft position we’d be in let Doug walk and get the best RB in this class 6′ 225 elite speed toughness vision and he’d cost less in 4 years than Doug would cost in 2 years then we have to start over in 2 I’d rather take my chances on zeke Elliot he pans out we get him for the next 8 years and the guys a stud injuries happen to everyone it could get Doug or zeke next year and beyond so that’s not a factor money age and skill all favor zeke just my thoughts look to the future and upgrade the present sounds too logical
February 22nd, 2016 at 8:58 am
I meant we are cutting Doug in 2 years anyways doubt we pay a 29 year old RB 7 million surrounding 3 with young weapons he can grow with sounds better than a 1 or 2 year overpriced veterans that won’t be here when 3 hits his groove in a couple of years he could have the next 6 years with the same core group of playmakers mjones tbenjamin mevans zelliott csims Asj curate I’d pay to see that group grow up together
February 22nd, 2016 at 8:59 am
We are way to thin,at the receiver position to let V-JAX walk. He has earned every penny they gave him. U let him hang around for one more year while we find his replacement. When ur 55 mil over the.cap u can afford to let him play out his last year on his contract.
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:00 am
Cbrate I mean
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:02 am
Hello we get Marvin jones and Travis Benjamin how are we thin at wide receiver that’s the point I’m making pay them not Jackson he’s made 60 million he’ll be fine I promise
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:05 am
How explosive would Evans mjones and Benjamin be that’d be sick and they can grow with 3 like Peyton had Harrison Wayne Clark and edge
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:28 am
You’re living in a dream world if you think we can get Marvin Jones and Travis Benjamin for $10 million
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:34 am
RB this year generally considered not very deep. You don’t just replace the second leading rusher in the NFL with some kid in the sixth round. You would have to use a premium pick and hope beyond hope that you nailed it. If rather take the bird in the hand AND use the premium pick on a position of need as opposed to filling a hole that didn’t exist. Not to mention this team has all the cap space in the world to play with. Money is not the excuse and it won’t be until the bucs have to actually pay a franchise QB.
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:47 am
McCoy ($13M) is overpayed.
L. David ($10M) is a bit overpayed.
VJax ($9.7M) and Mankins ($7M) are overpayed.
Verner ($6.75M) is definitely overpaid.
Cherilus ($4.5) is overpayed
B. Carter ($4.25M) is overpayed.
And yet all of these overpaid players have talent and can/will be of value to the team in 2016 and thus will be retained and utilized since we are currently $50M under the cap. As will Doug Martin. And he will be overpaid as well. After last year’s performance Dougie deserves some love and I’m sure Licht will aptly reward him without breaking the bank.
Best “value” players on the team currently?
Jameis Winston – ($5.8M)
Mike Evans – ($4M)
Clinton McDonald – ($3.25M)
Mike Glennon – ($1.8M)
Demar Dotson – ($1.75M)
Johnthan Banks – ($1.5M)
ASJ – ($1.4M)
Donovan Smith – ($1.4M)
Ali Marpet – ($850k)
Garret Gilkey – ($675) – LOL – Just Kidding
and the ultimate “value” player on our roster?
Kwon Alexander – ($644k)
February 22nd, 2016 at 9:48 am
I like VJ also, kind of wavering now on bringing him back for what could be his farewell tour with the Bucs. The position is thin and with less than adequate production, so help through FA or in the draft is likely upcoming. I’ll accept whatever decision is made for VJ as thought out reality for the best outcome.
February 22nd, 2016 at 10:05 am
We are not going to the super bowl next year or 2 years from now by the time jwin is ready to lead his team to the promise land vjax and Doug will be long gone might as well get a jumpstart on our future surrounding jwin with young core players he can with like zeke Elliot over Doug paying a couple of effective young fast receivers like mjones and tbenjamin makes more sense otherwise when jwin is ready to carry a team he will have to break in newcomers when he’s ready to take off jumpstart that process by getting the pieces he can grow with now so what if we replace Jackson with 2 fast younger wrs and replace Doug with 21 year old with way more upside that will be here after 2 years
February 22nd, 2016 at 10:18 am
@Guzzie- OSU fan?!
I agree and disagree. Martin is a known commodity with knowledge of the offense coming off a killer year. Zeke will require a fairly steep draft pick, he’s an unknown, and there are bigger needs. VJax is not just about the $$$. There are attributes that VJax brings to the table like leadership and knowledge of the playbook. Can the position be upgraded? Absolutely, but I think you bring in the aforementioned players in addition to VJax.
I don’t care what anybody says, he earned those $$$. He’s had 1 (ONE!) off year and now everyone thinks he’s overpaid! Utterly ridiculous! Name a more consistent offensive threat the Bucs have had recently. I’ll wait.
February 22nd, 2016 at 10:20 am
Pay Mankins and Jackson, this is both their last year here. Pay Martin to a 4 year deal(front loaded). And get ready cause Jameis is gettin his in 3 more years.
February 22nd, 2016 at 10:38 am
Hate OSU go gators I’m just thinking more of sustained success instead of starting over when jwin hits his peak zeke is an absolute beast he’s got speed and power durability and vision he’s not gurley but he’s a faster beast mode
February 22nd, 2016 at 10:56 am
“A logic expert might pick Martin, who is younger and had a greater impact last year. Joe says pay them both.”
After considering what the fat actor McCoy makes, why not pay everybody?
February 22nd, 2016 at 11:36 am
Guzzie learn to use punctuation. when you type 89 lines of gibberish, it at least makes it much easier to read with a few periods and perhaps some commas sprinkled in.
not a chance in hell Marvin Jones and Travis Benjamin’s salaries will combine for 10 mil. will be closer to 15. and it’s unlikely that Cleveland lets Benjamin walk anyway. they are beyond desperate for playmakers, and he’s one of the only ones they have. they will overpay to keep him if they have to.
February 22nd, 2016 at 11:38 am
I don’t understand the “Front load” a contract for DM2!! He just had his best year in a contract year! A incentive laced deal would be a better way to got to keep the carrot in front!!!
I have really changed about VJ83 taking a paycut. Yes he is coming off a injury. But the Bucs need him more than VJ83 needs the Bucs!!! And I do not think LM70 is coming back!!!
February 22nd, 2016 at 11:39 am
Big marlon….agree just wishful thinking…
February 22nd, 2016 at 11:48 am
How did the last 10 first round pick running backs turn out?
Todd gurley- pretty good
Melvin gordon- bust
Trent richardson – bust
Doug martin – good
David wilson – bust
Mark ingram – ok player, bottom half starting rb in the league
Cj spiller – Bust
Ryan mathews – bust
Jahvid best- bust
Knowshon moreno – bust
Donald brown – bust
Beanie wells – bust
Only 2 players have made a good contribution to their team. 1 guy was a rookie last year, who know how well the rest of his career turns out. And Doug Martin, who was on the verge of being a bust before this past season.
First round running backs are not worth it. over the years the second round has been more giving for running backs. But quite frankly we dont need to invest that high of a pick for a RB. Even if we did not re sign martin. We still have Sims who has shown a pretty good ability. Get a 5th or 6th rd running back to compliment him.
Best case scenario for me: resign martin to a 4 yr deal. For an “old” running back he doesnt have a lot of miles. He should be able to perform at a high level for at least 3 or 4 more seasons. Doug just finished his rookie contract and we are talking like he is some old fart. Good RBs last at least 8 yrs in this league. Doug has 4 down, at least 4 to go. This argument is stupid. Calling a 27 yr old running back too old to re sign. :facepalm:
February 22nd, 2016 at 12:04 pm
Trubucfan…respect that’s some great info on the 1st round backs I stand corrected
February 22nd, 2016 at 12:05 pm
When you have talented players, you should not let them walk away. What is the point of drafting guys only to keep them for 4 years? We only have 2 guys on this roster have gotten 2nd contracts from the bucs. Mccoy and LVD. #1 we need to draft talented players. #2 we need to re sign those talented players we drafted. the point of the draft is to infuse talented players to the team. Letting them go after they finally get good, is stupid on an organizational level. we have the money to resign them. Just do it.
February 22nd, 2016 at 12:13 pm
Pickgrin,
As you know several of those value players are on their first contract and time will tell if they continue to represent value. If so, their second contract will be more in line with say, Lavonte David. I disagree that LD is overpaid. I think he is right on. The others I agree with. V Jax has earned it but I’m against overpaying Doug Martin. I realize that there will be a team, possibly Baltimore, that would be willing to overpay Dougie. If it gets to that point, let him go. He adds nothing in the passing game and he has had 2 good years mixed with 2 not so good. Doug martin is not an automatic slam dunk stud especially as he gets longer in the tooth. Ask Belichick about overpaying for RB’s. It’s not worth it.
February 22nd, 2016 at 12:15 pm
Elliot might turn out to be really good. He was a beast in college. But that doesnt always translate well in the NFL. Doug martin is a rare success, even if it was only in 2 of his 4 years. which wasnt all his fault. The season ending injury 2 years ago, and no OC/oline last season really can’t be blamed on martin.
February 22nd, 2016 at 1:26 pm
Guzzie
Because VJax is a leader and a mentor to all the WRs and JW.
And will everyone stop saying Martin is getting old.
The guys is 27. These next 4 years are his prime football years 27-31. He has little wear and tear and no knee issues.
Sign him!!!! He is a much better runner than Simms. More explosive and elusive.
February 22nd, 2016 at 1:45 pm
@KyBucsfan
What part of Ky? I grew up on the Ohio river in Newport/Fort Thomas Ky.
Didn’t leave until I graduated from college.
February 22nd, 2016 at 1:52 pm
Guzzie Says
“We are not going to the super bowl next year or 2 years from now…”
We don’t know that. While I agree that 1 year would be tough, if we improve the defense and it has a year to gel, and add a couple more weapons to offense, a Superbowl is possible a year from now.
Not likely, but possible.
February 22nd, 2016 at 1:56 pm
Forget Benjamin. He’ll never be allowed to hit the open market. Make these your goals:
Sign WR Jermaine Kearse
Sign WR Marvin Jones
Sign DE Olivier Vernon
Sign SS Eric Berry
Sign DE Jason Pierre-Paul if can buy low due to injury
Keep Vincent Jackson
Franchise Doug Martin
Convince Mankins to play 1 more year
Draft defense, bpa
Now…if the Bucs managed to do all that, does anyone here think they would not compete? Even if they did not get Pierre-Paul (who comes with the injury risk)?
Kearse and Jones are only slightly better than average…but considering who we’ve got for depth, that would make a huge difference on offense. Keeping Jackson gives the new WRs time to gel with the offense for next year.
All young. All have potential. None will break the bank.
Team fixed.
February 22nd, 2016 at 1:58 pm
Trubucfan22 Says
“Doug martin is a rare success, even if it was only in 2 of his 4 years. which wasnt all his fault. The season ending injury 2 years ago, and no OC/oline last season really can’t be blamed on martin.”
That’s a pretty good point.
Still, so far as negotiations, it doesn’t matter. Licht can use the two bad years to bring the price down.
February 22nd, 2016 at 2:53 pm
@Bonzai- I’m not a fan of your list. Like you said the WRs are average-above average, I think Vernon is way overhyped, I can’t see KC letting Berry walk, and JPP, what’s JPP got to offer other than being a home-town guy? Even if you get him at low $$$, how effective will he be? Nobody knows right now and that is scary.
The only player I would want off this list is Berry, and maybe Kearse.
Are we looking at Vernon because of the 3-4? To me he’s another under-sized DE, we’ve got plenty of those.
February 22nd, 2016 at 5:02 pm
Sorry Bonzai but the bucs are building thru the draft if u haven’t been paying attention. We will sign a couple free agents here and there but we’re not gonna fill every hole we have with overpriced FA. And Travis Benjamin WILL hit the market. He would be my no. 1 target if I’m the bucs.
February 22nd, 2016 at 5:16 pm
Sign DE O.Vernon
WR T.Benjamin
DE C.Long because he will add depth and come cheap.
February 22nd, 2016 at 5:17 pm
And E.Berry if the price is right.
February 22nd, 2016 at 5:58 pm
My head is still hurting from trying to read guzzie’s long posts and his inability to use any punctuation.
February 22nd, 2016 at 7:07 pm
Yeah bonzai for contract negs it will impact that. But it doesn’t diminish the fact if we let Martin walk, we are letting a top 5(?) RB slip through our fingers. He will be another aqib talib, darrelle revis, blount, Bennett, etc… As an organization we need to keep the few talented players we have. Letting them go only for them to have great careers and we continue to be below average is a organizational failure.
We have money available, why wouldnt we keep a known commodity? Does anyone know if sims can carry the load for a full season? Or if a rookie will come in and perform to the level of Martin? There are so many risks in FA and rookies. almost none of our FAs ever work out as well as we expected. The only one that has lived up to expectations for more than 1 season is vincent Jackson. Even the decent undrafted rookies we bring in and contribute don’t amount to much after a few seasons. Only recently have we had some solid drafts. The last one was obviously a grandslam, but the jury is still out on a few of the 2014 draft.
Sick with the known commodity doing anything else is detrimental to the organization.
February 23rd, 2016 at 3:27 am
You wanted the best and you got the best, the hottest team in the NFC South, the Buccaneers! Why overpay old veterans whom we either have a back-up waiting in the wings or can easily get a replacement in FA or the draft to meet the same production. To put into plain english Logan Mankins and Vincent Jackson will not be playing for Tampa in 2017. Throw in Alterraun Verners and Bruce Carters contracts and bingo, we have $28,000,000 in cap savings.
G Logan Mankins – Kevin Pamphile, Pamphile performed very well in Mankins absence last year. Why not make the move so Pamphile can grow as a player.
Draft a guard this year and begin grooming him. 7M can go towards JPP.
Vincent Jackson – Not difficult to replace 33 receptions last year. By releasing Jackson we can bring in two WR to replace him. Jermaine Kearse Seattle and Rishard Matthews Miami can replace Jackson.
With 77,000,000 under the cap it should not be a matter of if we sign these players but a matter of when we outbid everyone else so they sign in Tampa.
DE Mario Williams DE Jason Pierre-Paul, CB Sean Smith and SS Walter Thurmond. Makes sense?
February 23rd, 2016 at 8:07 am
V Jax, Verner are here to stay u,can bet on that. And Bruce Carter should be given the Sam job since it sounds like there going to let lansanah walk. Why create another hole? Carter showed he can be a productive starter when given the chance last season. The season before he led all LB’s with 5 INTs.