“Incredibly Difficult”
April 17th, 2014
Greg Cosell of NFL Films weighs in on evaluating Johnny Football and finding a QB fit in the draft
The Buccaneers’ quest for a franchise quarterback (yes, Mike Glennon Mob, the team still yearns for one) is a puzzling effort for a few reasons:
First, offensive coordinator Jeff Tedford’s offense is a complete mystery. So the type of QB the Bucs covet is unknown. Second, Lovie Smith guaranteeing 34-year-old journeyman Josh McCown $5 million after cutting him a few years ago adds to the confusion. And third, it’s unknown what kind of commitment Lovie Smith is willing to make to the position.
Lovie got to a Super Bowl with Rex Grossman but traded two first-round picks and Kyle Orton to Denver for bratty Jay Cutler. Is Lovie now somewhere in between those extremes when it comes to valuing a quarterback?
Joe really recommends the audio linked here of NFL Films’ 30-year guru Greg Cosell talking about QB evaluation with Doug Gottlieb of CBS Radio yessterday. Cosell dives deep into how NFL teams look at prospective quarterbacks and draft picks and talks about how Johnny Football’s success or failure is nearly impossible for him to predict.
“You know what, I think, and I’m not copping out, I think it’s incredibly difficult. I think he’s going to be a function of team, in all honesty,” Cosell said. “I think if he can go to a team that has parts and has pieces, and he’s willing to intuitively understand all that, and I actually think he’s a pretty smart kid, I think if he can intuitively grasp that, he’ll be able to play. I don’t think he’ll be able to play the way he played at [Texas] A&M. I’m not sure that’s really viable in the league.”
Of course, regular readers here know Joe would love to see the Bucs draft Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny Football, primarily because they represent significant upgrades in talent over what the Bucs have now. Those two guys have a shot at elite status.
But not knowing what Tedford wants makes it awfully hard to predict the Bucs’ moves at QB. Why did they even pounce on Mike Kafka like a stray cat on a mouse after he was out of a football for a year?
Cosell says Derek Carr might be his No. 1 QB on a draft board but says Carr will need to learn “a whole different way of playing quarterback” because he didn’t play in a pro-style system at Fresno State. Cosell cautions that teams would be in trouble asking Blake Bortles to do things he’s not ready to perform.
“You’ve got to think about adaptability to your team, to your whole system. How is that going to play out over time? Because this is a process [developing a quarterback.]” Cosell explains.
Of course, that’s the catch: urgency. Teams feel pressure to win immediately, but most rookie quarterbacks need time and must be managed effectively. Lovie is on an ultimate honeymoon for NFL coaches with his Tampa status right now. He’ll get at least three years to put the Bucs in the playoffs. He’ll also get a couple of years to develop a quarterback with Tedford.
This is why Joe is certain the Bucs will draft one in 2014. Lovie knows he’s got the time to do it right, and his table is set with mentor McCown and guru Tedford in place.
April 17th, 2014 at 10:50 am
The suspense is killing me
April 17th, 2014 at 10:53 am
Bucs trade to get back into round 4 and in the 4th round the Bucs select Aaron Murray, QB Georgia.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:10 am
Clowney
Robinson
Bortles
Watkins
Mack
Mathews
Johnny Football
After the 20 minutes it will take for Johnny to win the job in camp, he’s the opening day QB. McCown backup. Glennon off to wherever for fifth rounder.
Oh how the house will be rocking.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:12 am
Not so fast with the dirt and shovel Jose’. I’m still of mind that Glennon will be capable of running an up tempo offense. Like Brees, three seconds and get the ball out IMO.
Hey I like JFF at 7, but his style may well lead to the RG111 limp.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:13 am
“I don’t think he’ll be able to play the way he played at [Texas] A&M. I’m not sure that’s really viable in the league.”
___________
Yeah, let’s draft a short QB who won’t be able to play the way he’s accustomed to. Makes sense!
April 17th, 2014 at 11:21 am
So all of the scouts have vastly different rankings on the QBs, as well as vastly different predictions as to when they will be drafted, yet we are supposed to believe the QB-NEEDY teams are all in consensus on when they will be picked? 3 in the top 10? 4 in the top 26? If the Buc’s scouts have Manziel as their #1 QB, yet they pay an independent scout for his evaluations and he has Murray at #1 and Manziel at #5, then the Bucs should assume that their is no consensus and therefore the margin of error is so large that one could select a QB a full 2 rounds ahead of where he should be picked. This is terrible value.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:25 am
Lightning Buc, the key word is unknown. We simply don’t know what Tedford and his bosses are thinking.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:33 am
Exactly right Joe, this is the perfect year for the new regime to draft the future franchise QB. With the Smith/Tedford tandem doing such a masterful job of providing hardly a clue about what type of scheme to expect, speculation is rampant with all schemes and QB-types still on the table. Add to the excitement of the new regime bringing back the tradition of a premiere defense a franchise QB and the Bucs may be on the cusp of something very big.
Shame on the NFL for delaying the draft day a month longer for all of us 24/7 fans. LIke the athletes of our favorite teams, we too have our off-season programs and routines. It’s now mid-April, the draft should be next week. Instead, just like the ground hog, we’ve got to wait 3 weeks longer. Lately at night with my ear pressed to the pillow trying to fall asleep, I could swear I hear off in the distance the steady beat of the drum roll leading up to the draft, but then realize it’s just my heartbeat, sigh, and then just roll over trying once again to go to sleep counting down, “21 more days to go……, 21 more days to go….”. I’m insufferable right now, my wife swears its’ this way every year too.
Insomnia, thanks a lot commish.
April 17th, 2014 at 11:55 am
…Connor Shaw is coming to Tampa
April 17th, 2014 at 11:59 am
I think Johnny is the Truth! Its a win-win with Johnny Football either we win get playoffs and have our franchise QB or we find out he is a bust we lose again and get Jameis Winston next year! Win -WIN situation
April 17th, 2014 at 12:18 pm
To think that Glennon could not be a franchise QB after a 13 game sample is complete nonsense
April 17th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
The Buccaneers’ quest for a franchise quarterback (yes, Mike Glennon Mob, the team still yearns for one) is a puzzling effort for a few reasons:
——————-
It’s funny how you continue to say this, even though everybody knows this is true. However, you try to present it as if it means that “The guy” is not Glennon when you have no idea other than hope. Lol. Keep trying Joe. It’s going to be so enjoyable to listen to your symphony of tears on Draft Day. Might even label you Joethoven.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:21 pm
The more I read and learn about Manziel the more I’m starting think he’s going to be a MAJOR flop. Thanks Joe.
There have been highly touted QB’s coming into past drafts much more highly touted than JF and they flopped.
Then there is the Colin Kap’s, and Russell Wilson’s drafted in the 3rd rounds and go on and shine.
It’s all a crap shoot, but for the first time since Joe started his barrage of Johnny FB articles I’m convinced the kid is NOT going to make the adjustments from HIS college style of play to the NFL. Absolutely convinced. Again, thanks a lot Joe. I pray to God the Bucs don’t pick Manziel.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Joe said: “but most rookie quarterbacks need time and must be managed effectively”
___________
Unless, of course, your name is Mike Glennon. Then, you’re supposed to win, and win often, immediately.
Speak out of both sides of your mouth much?
April 17th, 2014 at 12:32 pm
With no help Lightning. Can’t forget how rookie QBs are suppose to be excellent with no help. We are going to be waiting a long time for one of these.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:33 pm
@lightning
Zing!
April 17th, 2014 at 12:35 pm
hahahahahah
April 17th, 2014 at 12:40 pm
I think it’s funny how the anti-Glennon mob would gladly use the “but he’s a rookie” excuse for every other rookie quarterback thrown into the fire, but not Mike Glennon. What the hell did you expect him to do? For him to come in and light up the scoreboard every week?
April 17th, 2014 at 12:42 pm
The same people who expected miracles from Glennon out of the box, continue to make excuses from Freeba, er, Freeman, five years later.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:46 pm
lightningbuc…you sir are on a roll today. LOL
April 17th, 2014 at 12:51 pm
Couch Fan…no they will tell you good QB’s are supposed to elevate the players around him and will there team to victory. Just like Matt Ryan the 5th year QB (not a rookie) did for his 4-12 Falcons last season when some of their talent went down.
April 17th, 2014 at 12:53 pm
Logan Thomas will be the quarterback in the 5th round for the Bucs!
April 17th, 2014 at 12:55 pm
Jeagan1999, after all the chatter you are the closest to a correct choice for the Buds’ future. Likely not the choice they will make but, it would be the right one! Aaron Murray
April 17th, 2014 at 1:05 pm
Logan Thomas is absolutely terrible. People like to hype up Johnny on what he did against Alabama. Well, Logan against Alabama went 5/26 (???????????) for 51 yards. And that was last year, when Alabama’s defesne was easily the worst in Saban’s time there.
Thomas looks a lot like Josh Freeman 2.0. Do not touch with a 60 foot pole.
April 17th, 2014 at 1:09 pm
Watch out lighning, Joe’s going to bold over you and point out how he said “most rookies”and then proclaim his love for Glennon the person and backup.
April 17th, 2014 at 1:15 pm
Buc1987….Stafford too, he elevated the players around him and took them to the playoffs…oh oh…and Bradford when healthy, he had the Rams marching straight towards the playoffs. RGIII really took his game to another level as well. These are all “franchise” guys carrying their teams.
April 17th, 2014 at 1:15 pm
JoeMan(Ziel)CrushFan…I’m glad you just threw that out there before Joe got to it, because it was coming for sure.
April 17th, 2014 at 2:26 pm
Joe had an article a little while ago in which A. Murray said the Bucs had shown no interest in him, could this be a smoke screen? Perhaps it’s Murray they are interested in. Licht said some time ago that he saw a franchise QB in the draft but not one of the “names” everyone is talking about. Can’t wait until the draft to see how all this intrigue plays out.
April 17th, 2014 at 2:56 pm
I dropped a deuce this morning that has about as much potential to be successful in the NFL as Bridgewater. I’d take Manziel & about 5-6 other QB’s in this draft over Bustwater.
April 17th, 2014 at 3:05 pm
i look at johnny manziel and i see vince young. a hero in the college game capable of making transcendent plays, who will not always be successful winning the respect of his NFL teammates and may never get over the fact that in the NFL he is going to have to changealot of what made him a legendary NCAA player
April 17th, 2014 at 3:39 pm
I see Mike Glennon as trade bait during the draft. I truely believe Light and Lovie think he is a decent QB, just not one who fits Tedfords offensive scheme. I think they will try to use a Glennon trade for an extra pick.
April 17th, 2014 at 3:42 pm
Hahahahah all the glennon lovers so mad….it’s amusing at this point and also a lil sad how sow so many can latch on to the most mediocre boring qb play seen in a long time. Tell me Mike glennon fan club how many points did the great Mike glennon put up in the second half of games last year total? Over/under 20?
April 17th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
The mystery offense which Mason Foster was asked about and gave a great answer about what he faced while playing Cal in the PAC 12!!
April 17th, 2014 at 3:45 pm
We might get a fifth rounder out of Glennon.
A second or third is a total pipe dream.
April 17th, 2014 at 3:48 pm
Vince Young scored a 6 on the Wonderlic.
April 17th, 2014 at 3:57 pm
knucknbuc…there is only but a few “Glennon lovers” as you state. I’m not one of them. I simply state what I saw on the field and the circumstances Glennon had to deal with. That does not make me a Glennon lover. I still predict Glennon will be McCown’s back up in 2014 though.
April 17th, 2014 at 4:13 pm
” how many points did the great Mike glennon put up in the second half of games last year total? Over/under 20?”
Did you look at how many second half points that the Bucs put up last season before Glennon ever stepped on the field?
April 17th, 2014 at 4:15 pm
knucknbuc Said:
“Hahahahah all the glennon lovers so mad….it’s amusing at this point and also a lil sad how sow so many can latch on to the most mediocre boring qb play seen in a long time. Tell me Mike glennon fan club how many points did the great Mike glennon put up in the second half of games last year total? Over/under 20?”
Hey Buckethead or knucklehead. Are you like 12 or something? Neener neener??
April 17th, 2014 at 5:31 pm
I love how faithful Joe is to permanent epithets like “bratty” Jay Cutler…
April 17th, 2014 at 6:10 pm
We better get our QB this year because you can count me out of the Jameis Winston sweepstakes next year. Can anyone say Darren Sharper? I would go with the prototypical size, though in Blake Bortles. Just don’t see Manziel’s game translating to the NFL. Bortles has the mobility of Manziel and the pocket presence of Andrew Luck. I wouldn’t pick any other QB at 7. If Bortles isn’t there then wait until the later rounds and take Murray or Carr.
April 17th, 2014 at 6:27 pm
Buccos…can you say innocent until proven guilty?
April 17th, 2014 at 6:46 pm
How can anybody want Winston, the rapist up in Tallahassee? The cover up is being revealed, police and the university blocked the investigation to protect Fla St. shot at title. The Capital up there let it happen, pure corruption. So now rape is nothing apparently, with more than one victim. There was no consent. It’s pathetic, all who delayed and aborted justice need to go to jail. Hey, where’s the white women at?
April 17th, 2014 at 8:35 pm
Bucfan#37 you must be a gator fan.
April 17th, 2014 at 8:44 pm
Hey now. I’m a gator fan but I would be happy with Winston. Lol
April 17th, 2014 at 8:51 pm
Couch – there are so many aspects of that story that are not being reported. I am not defending anyone. Just like the rest of the world no one knows what happened. I find it interesting that they leave out the fact her boyfriend at the time and his refusal to assist. again, i am too stupid to be judge or say I understand the facts but it’s more like a soap opera at this point if it ever gets proved he was guilty then the dudes a douchebag that being said I’d be ok if he got kicked out of school and enter the supplemental draft and threw 40 touchdowns for the bucs one day. but that is not going to be happening. we need wins
April 17th, 2014 at 8:58 pm
Right on, straight ahead gator fan here. always hated the criminoles. Now even more, although I know they get top talent and Derrick Brooks was a great player. It just aint right that football trumps justice.
April 17th, 2014 at 9:25 pm
Innocent until proven guilty. Nuff said.
April 17th, 2014 at 9:39 pm
I don’t think Winston did it, but I would not be surprised if Florida State tried to brush it under the rug to increase their chances of winning the title. Still pretty sketchy that it only started making news almost A FULL YEAR after it was reported.
Winston doesn’t seem anything like Roethlisberger. lol
April 21st, 2014 at 8:29 am
Sure, it must have been a conspiracy. She says she was drugged, so, I guess the FDLE lab, the FBI lab, and the U. of Florida chem lab all were in on the conspiracy. TBD has always sucked, but, that doesn’t make the accused guilty.
And, it’s funny to hear Gators chime in. If only that mass murderer Hernandez were stopped in Gainesville, but, instead they covered for him.