“That’s An Attitude Thing”
September 30th, 2013The Xs and Os voice of reason of Bucs analysis, Dave Moore, breaks down the Bucs in the WDAE-AM 620 audio below. Interestingly, Moore stepped outside of his typical nuts and bolts chalk talk to explain that the Bucs’ offensive line is showing up weak.
“That’s an attitude thing,” Moore said.
The former tight end and current Buccaneers Radio Network analyst went on to talk about how the teamwork along the line has unraveled and they were thoroughly dominated in the second half by Arizona.
Moore also talked about his personal experiences on pre-Dungy Bucs teams that played with a losing mentality. He likens this Bucs team to those days.
On the upside, Moore liked much of what he saw from Mike Glennon and said Glennon didn’t miss any glaring opportunities downfield. Vincent Jackson, Moore said, needed to be more precise in his route running.
September 30th, 2013 at 11:37 am
With about 1:30 left on the clock, I watched the big money veteran OL get off the bench and very slowly shuffle onto the field with their heads hung low. They looked as if the game was a blowout loss. What a shame. That was the most sad moment of the game to me.
September 30th, 2013 at 11:40 am
I still want to know why we CONTINUED to run left when we were getting stuffed there ALL day. Yet, when we adjusted…oh wait…
September 30th, 2013 at 11:41 am
Wow! Dave Moore giving tips on route running. Incredible!
September 30th, 2013 at 11:43 am
O-line is playing less that healthy, in both Nicks and Joseph. Who knows who else is hurt that we (and opponents) never hear about.
To say after one game that they have a losing attitude is a pretty hasty rush to judgment.
September 30th, 2013 at 11:46 am
He also said he hardly made many passes beyond the line of scrimmage. It was obvious that Glennon had a whole different game plan than Josh had in his previous starts. What bothers me about that was Schiano adamantly saying there shouldn’t be much of a drop off in play calling because Glennon had as good a grasp on the offense than Freeman but yet, Schiano changed it to help him look better. Schiano clearly dismantled Freeman. He systematically started tearing him down before the combines. This is his circus that he created. Josh is his scapegoat for probably saving his job for another year.
Personally, this all leaves a bad taste in my mouth and I’m losing respect for many prominent news guys and talking heads for their smear campaign on Freeman and blackballing a disenfranchised young QB from future teams. Every bit of this witch hunt is all mostly on hearsay and rumor.
September 30th, 2013 at 11:59 am
We have no identity on offense, that is coaching all the way! Sully is a major problem in his play calling. Now would the right time to make McNulty the OC, IMO.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:09 pm
RBellBuc
Maybe Schiano dismantled Freeman…but he didn’t pur words in his mouth or throw errant passes for him. I’m quite certain Schiano wanted Freeman gone…but its Freeman who is now showing his true colors….and they aren’t pewter & red!!!
September 30th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
Its an interesting statement from a Buc vet. It does seem that this O-Line has lost its “hunger” for production and you have to wonder if that is due to 3 of 5 being satisfied with the signing bonuses they got or if their contracts are structured with very little incentives other than playing time.
Being a fan of Schiano and Glenno, it sucks to see he’s running out of time to turn it around but such is the life in the NFL. However, Schiano does make valid points regarding when and how they loaded this team. The guy who seemingly flies under the radar yet has been here just as long as Freeman and have much much more influence on the teams success is……Dominick aka Pewter Reports “unnamed source”. Dominick loaded the team to masks all of Freeman’s bad qualities. ProBowl offensive line, big athletic receivers, stud running back, now they have a very strong defense, the guy has done everything possible to build a team around the absolute worst QB in the league right now that “allegedly” has a substance abuse problem. That’s on Dominick and this fiasco has been brewing under his watch long before Schiano got here. Schiano also didn’t structure the contracts of any of these guys and the only way to get those guys to this turd ship was to sign them to guaranteed money. The reason I mention that is guaranteed money removes the incentives which are valuable motivators when the season is going off track, it keeps them playing hard. That’s all Dominick. Remember, he too had no track record of success but was merely Bruce Allens contract boy before the Glaziers handed him the job.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
Another thing,
Does anybody really think that if Schiano treated VJax or Revis the same way as Josh that they wouldn’t have gone to “ESPN” or even called Schiano out publicly?
Why should Josh be any different? He’s not less a man than them. He’s just younger.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Look Schiano has done great with the Defense. I don’t know if he’s putting his input too much into the offense or Sully is just not capable of being an OC. That offense looks awful and not coached up. No adjustments, same crap plays and defenses figure it out.
I had 4 full seasons and a horrible start to know that Freeman is not the QB of the future. At some point he had to take control of his own development rather than wait for someone to hold his hand and teach him how to read a defense. He was one part of the problem on offense, Sully is the other.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Next big story. How Schiano is ruining Doug Martin. Fantasy leagues are unloading Martin ASAP. National media says Schiano is the culprit.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
TBBF
So just because Josh wasn’t an elite QB under this coaches direction it was ok for Schiano to destroy what future he still may had by systematically shredding him in front of the whole sports world to see, instead of doing what non-maniacle coaches would do and have a sit down with him before the combines and say he wanted to go a different direction. This all was pretty transparent then that Josh wasn’t his guy. All summer he planted this seed. The dude a mad scientist that figured out an escape if things went south.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Joe – seriously deleting my takes? without even a response?? or reason? was I digging too deep with th 620 connection?
No. 1 and No. 1a rules here are don’t mis-represent Joe or lie about Joe, and don’t waste Joe’s time with nonsense. Joe has no time to babysit. Joe deleted about 100 of your posts recently. So that’s your answer as to why your comments don’t appear.–Joe
September 30th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
Glennon did a good distribution of the ball. He obviously need to do some timing with the 1st team WR but I thought he was ok. About as good as I thought he was going to be which means pretty average. I can see the big arm but I didn’t see much accuracy over 10 yards which is what matters most. Ogletree needs to be demoted, he clearly not good enough. Honestly I think the playcalling sucks and I can’t stand seeing those sideline jump balls to Jackson and Williams. They absolutely kill our drives and put the QB in impossible 3rd down and long situation
Our running game sucked yesterday I this is where I though that Hillis would have benefited the team. You pull out Martin and let Hillis do the pounding. Clearly Martin has hit the sophomore slump with fumbles, blown blitz assignments and dropped passes. OLine doesn’t look dominant at all.
Defense again was good and I can’t blame Revis for the TD, it happens. Foster needs to go to the probowl with David and McCoy. They gave the ball to the offense 3 times. Goldson is a marked man and he’ll continue to get flags for hits like that even if it was by the rules. I don’t think that the quality of the defense has anything to do with the scheme Schiano is running. I think it’s more raw talent that shows up on the defensive front. Stunts are killing CLayborn performance as he’s often half a second late on the QB because he has to run to the A gaps then go upfield to get to the QB.
I think the Glazer buying out tickets to stop the blackouts is their way to say to fans that they’re sorry they screwed up this year. I think either Schiano and or Dominik Heads will roll at the end of the season.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
Hmmmmmm
September 30th, 2013 at 12:26 pm
@ Tony
I can tell you if I’m in business & the owner says “sales are bad, what are you going to do about it?”….I’d say….we can replace the Sales Manager…
Sully might not be the problem….but if he isn’t the solution….he will get what many get when you aren’t at the top….the ax.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:29 pm
RBellBuc:
Do you really think that Schiano had to come up with such an elaborate scheme to get rid of Freeman? I believe they tried to get Palmer in the off season.
I don’t think any HC would be so maniacal to throw 3 games at the beginning of a season to get rid of a QB. Freeman threw himself away. That season he was 25tds 6 ints was because he put in the off season workouts with his team and got coached by Drew Brees on work ethic. worked for one season. Last year he regressed so much as a 4TH year starter towards the end of the season. He was as much to blame as the horrendous secondary last year. Too many 3 and outs. Maybe if he was groomed like Aaron Rodgers for a couple year he could have been great but thrown in too early for his week mind. His actions after being benched has spoken loudly of how he handles adversity.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
@ RBell Buc
Schiano probably wouldn’t treat VJax or Revis that way…but if he did, I can just about guarantee you that they would man-up and either keep their mouth shut or fight!!!
You are doing your best to redeem Freeman and blame everyone but him for his problems….”younger”…etc.
Freeman is a very rich child who never has to work another day in his life….and it shows!!!
September 30th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Schiano didn’t try to ruin Freeman, he just realized that Free’s strengths aren’t those needed to run the offense they’re trying to run. Free’s strengths are extending plays and throwing the ball down the field. They tried that, and Free couldn’t complete passes (with help at times from the receivers, but every QB has drops from their receivers). Glennon’s strengths are exactly what the coaching staff wants, which is the short-to-intermediate quick routes. The play-calling has been suspect all season, yes, but Sunday was the offensive design that is supposed to be on the field (just not executed). More time with the starters for Glennon will greatly help his cause.
Free’s off-field incidents and “alleged” problems are coming out, and it’s because teams are inquiring (as Mort said over the weekend), not because Schiano is trying to make him look bad. The ONLY thing Schiano cares about is winning, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just part of the conspiracy theorists who don’t understand professional sports.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
Keep in mind who hired Schiano and who picked Freeman…..Dominick. When did Schiano get hired, at the tail end of Jan, leaving them little time to put together a staff, prepare for the draft, etc. Schiano’s first year here was simply to get an understanding of what he had, he didn’t pick Freeman but the guy knows football and players very well. He knew last year Freeman was not his guy but Dominick was his boss and Dominick has his name on Freeman. A rookie head coach must show he can play the game, that’s the NFL however now what you are seeing is the team was built around the wrong player that has major character issues. Schiano has a team to manage and the team voted against Freeman being a captain for a reason. Now you have a circus as Freeman’s flaws are coming to the surface and jobs are now on the line. If blame is going to be distributed to either the GM or the coach, as the GM you want the perception to be the coach is a tyrant and the QB developed a diva/coke problem vs the GM just spent a ton of ownerships money to masks the QBs issues. That leaves you with a guy who really knows football being blindsided by a GM that doesn’t and a diva QB that feels entitled to play however he chooses. I’ll say it again, this circus is all on DOMINICK. There is a definite power play occurring at ONE BUC PLACE and in my opinion the players believe in Schiano however they are growing tired of the circus in general. The next best step is to get Freeman out of town asap and hang a “W” to remind the players they can win. This idea that the team isn’t playing for Schiano is ridiculous, we have lost 3 games in the closing seconds by less than 3pts each time. A team that quits doesnt play that hard to the very end each game.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
TTC,
Don’t take it so hard bro.
Play by the rules and you won’t get burned.
PS: Real trolls don’t cry to the mods.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Tampabaybucfan:
I guess we need to find out who has had more input in calling the offensive plays, Schiano or Sully.
If Schiano is overriding Sully’s calls to no results, then yeah Schiano needs to back off. But if Sully is making the calls with no results, he’s had 21 games to show improvement, maybe changing the Sales Manager with a new direction or better execution is needed.
But Schiano and amazingly Sherridan has fixed this defense in my eyes and special teams play has improved on Wannstedt’s helm. That leaves one suspect at the top.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
I can see Schiano becoming the new HC at UConn..
September 30th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
Just to show that some players line up behind their coach is this comment on Yahoo regarding the NYG.
Justin Tuck pledges to punch anyone in the mouth who turns on Tom Coughlin
It’s getting a bit feisty around the New York Giants. They are 0-4, and this talented but flawed team is starting to grasp for answers — and apparently are ready to resort to violence to prevent a mutiny.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:55 pm
I must be missing something. Last year under the SAME leaders we had a makeshift line which gave Freeman time to throw for over 4000 yds. Open holes for Martin. The only problem was Josh had his melt down. Plus in scoring position they would come away with 3 not 7. Now they get vets back change positions back and can’t open a can of beer. Much less protect a QB. It is said he was an A–hole last year. Now we were told he eased up this year? So which screwed this up? He let up, the line change? We damn near got to the playoffs last year.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:57 pm
tone850
This doesn’t sound like an endorsement of a player who lacks future development. This is what McNulty said about Josh, and what he had heard from others prior to coming to Tampa.
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/new-bucs-qb-coach-mcnulty-likes-freeman/2125889
or better yet here is McNulty’s take on working on improving his game.
http://blog.buccaneers.com/offseason-program/2013/06/mcnulty-mechanics-not-the-key-to-helping-freeman/
Now I know why Josh did pretty good when Ron Turner was his QB coach. He worked with Josh on his mechanics just like a pro golfer does at the driving range with a coach. But under McNulty he didn’t work on his mechanics and making sure he wasn’t picking up bad habits. Maybe this was Schiano’s plan to begin with. Why else would he keep Josh from getting more reps in preseason. Josh had his faults, yes he wasn’t elite, and maybe it was time to go. But to say this guy has no future is BS. With the right Coaches and system I have a feeling we haven’t heard the last of Josh no matter how much of a monster you make him out to be.
September 30th, 2013 at 12:58 pm
Don Penn allowed such easy sacks of Glennon, some of my friends are wondering if he did not intentionally sabotage Glennon, as payback for his buddy Freeman getting benched!
Maybe he just had a bad day ?
September 30th, 2013 at 1:01 pm
BucFan20
You say Josh had a meltdown, I say opposing teams caught up to defending Skullies playbook. And it continues to this day. Chew on that #1 fan
September 30th, 2013 at 1:05 pm
@tone850
I hear you…I really don’t know how much autonomy Sullivan has…I suspect a lot more than Sheridan.
If Schiano is cramming the plays & stategy down Sully’s throat..Dominick & in turn the Glazers will know that.
If Sully is running his offense…he is definately in trouble.
Everyone is assuming that Schiano runs everything…i’m not totally convinced of that.
At the press conference Schiano said “Everything starts with me” or something to that effect. Not many chose to hear that.
September 30th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Loolking backon the game MG played well for a rookie the 1st half… The 2nd half not so much and I think I notice something…
It looked to me as though during halftime, either the coaches or VJ himself got in MG’s head and told him to get VJ the ball…. The 1st half you could see MG going through his progressions smoothly but in the 2nd he kept looking VJ way longer like he was more focused on that 1 receiver as if he was told to…. That could be the reason for the 2 INTs which the Bucs may have won otherwise!… IMO
September 30th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
@ RBell
To me it looked like a meltdown. You don’t play the way he was then slide then beat Atlanta. You have your opinion I have mine. So go Chew on yours.
September 30th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
@ RBellBuc
Freeman’s in his fifth year as a starter, and second year in this offense. It was Glennon’s first NFL start. Freeman should be expected to be able to run the offense successfully by now, whereas Glennon will need to be eased into it.
I don’t think it’s a case of Schiano trying to intentionally make Freeman look bad, and then changing the offense to intentionally make Glennon look better. When he said there shouldn’t be much of a drop-off in play calling from Freeman to Glennon, I’m sure Schiano was thinking mid-term, like, I don’t know, at least giving the rookie three or four starts. In the short term, they need to account for the fact that Glennon is a rookie, and not just unload the entire playbook on him day one and expect flawless execution.
Glennon’s downfield accuracy is suspect right now, which is why you’ll probably see more short-to-intermediate pass plays before they completely trust him to execute the entire offensive system.
September 30th, 2013 at 1:22 pm
Not a big deal, but Joe’s been through this before. This is not a message board, and Joe does not give a thumbs up to taking the conversation off topic or directing readers to leave the website. Thanks. –Joe
September 30th, 2013 at 1:38 pm
mvermulm Says:
September 30th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Schiano didn’t try to ruin Freeman, he just realized that Free’s strengths aren’t those needed to run the offense they’re trying to run. Free’s strengths are extending plays and throwing the ball down the field. They tried that, and Free couldn’t complete passes (with help at times from the receivers, but every QB has drops from their receivers). Glennon’s strengths are exactly what the coaching staff wants, which is the short-to-intermediate quick routes
—————
False.
{sorry Joe if this is breaking policy. feel free to delete the link if so}
From an article on TampaBay.com 10/23/12:
“From the beginning, our philosophy is we want to run the football and take shots down the field,” – Schiano
http://www.tampabay.com/sports/football/bucs/greg-schianos-offensive-philosophy-working-backward-for-buccaneers/1258047
What I really want is an offensive head coach. Preferably someone who’s dealt with QB’s before. Someone we know that regardless of how good or offense looks, we don’t have to worry about some other team coming in and hiring our guy…forcing [insert any QB name here] to have to relearn a whole system.
It just seems as if it’s easier to groom your next DC vs grooming your next OC when you are a defensive minded HC.
September 30th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
@Joe,
so i just happened to see your post above mind after i hit submit, so i guess i’ll repost now, lol.
mvermulm Says:
September 30th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
Schiano didn’t try to ruin Freeman, he just realized that Free’s strengths aren’t those needed to run the offense they’re trying to run. Free’s strengths are extending plays and throwing the ball down the field. They tried that, and Free couldn’t complete passes (with help at times from the receivers, but every QB has drops from their receivers). Glennon’s strengths are exactly what the coaching staff wants, which is the short-to-intermediate quick routes
—————
False.
{sorry Joe if this is breaking policy. feel free to delete the link if so}
From an article on TampaBay.com 10/23/12:
“From the beginning, our philosophy is we want to run the football and take shots down the field,” – Schiano
What I really want is an offensive head coach. Preferably someone who’s dealt with QB’s before. Someone we know that regardless of how good or offense looks, we don’t have to worry about some other team coming in and hiring our guy…forcing [insert any QB name here] to have to relearn a whole system. I really wanted Free to be the guy, but if he’s not, it sucks but its on to the next one. since i’m TeamBucs, right now i’m TeamGlennon.
It just seems as if it’s easier to groom your next DC vs grooming your next OC when you are a defensive minded HC.
September 30th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
tone850 Says:
September 30th, 2013 at 12:51 pm
Tampabaybucfan:
I guess we need to find out who has had more input in calling the offensive plays, Schiano or Sully.
If Schiano is overriding Sully’s calls to no results, then yeah Schiano needs to back off. But if Sully is making the calls with no results, he’s had 21 games to show improvement, maybe changing the Sales Manager with a new direction or better execution is needed.
But Schiano and amazingly Sherridan has fixed this defense in my eyes and special teams play has improved on Wannstedt’s helm. That leaves one suspect at the top.
———————
Sheridan has stated time and time again that his is running the defense that Schiano calls. It is not his defense. I would bet money that it is the same situation with Sully. Considering what Fleck said, as reported here:
https://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=95082
My guess is that Sully might call the plays, but Schiano has final say.
September 30th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
@ Celly
I had read once (can’t recall where) that Schiano calls for run or pass & Sully decides exactly which play.
I have no idea if that is what they are doing.
You would think the media could find out who is calling the plays & how much autonomy they have.
If its Schiano, he absolutely needs to butt out. If Sully fails on his own then he needs to pay the consequence.
September 30th, 2013 at 2:13 pm
Illuminati
Don’t get me wrong. I want Glennon to succeed. But the point I’m trying to make is the offensive game plan in the first 3 games was suspect although Freeman did put us in a position to win in 2 of those games. This game he used a different game plan because of rookie Glennon and it failed against a severely handicapped defensive team. He claimed in his PC that MG8 was at the same pace as Freeman. Then I question why he completely changed his plan to a simple plan and put his QB in a no win situation. Glennons got the arm why didn’t Schiano unleash it instead of 80% check downs? I think he only attempted 2-3 passes over 25yds. This weak plan caused the Cards to load the box and strop the run. Wanting to ease his QB in while we’re sitting at 0-3 against a putrid Card squad is just ridiculous, especially when he said Glennon was our best chance to win. Now, Schiano gets a pass from everyone because he started a rookie in a game that Freeman would likely have won with a better game plan, not some watered down plan that had run plastered all over it. We should be 1-3
September 30th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
Dominik knows who’s calling what. He has his own headset to listen in remember.
https://www.joebucsfan.com/?p=59259
If Schiano is calling pass, run and Sullivan chooses the play, then Sully isn’t calling very good plays.
Schiano needs to know this is the NFL, let your coaches coach and make sure it up to standards, he doesn’t have to coach the offense except his input in deciphering what other defenses are doing to help the OC game plan.
September 30th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Serious question…
Why is it that when Free got a chance to run a hurry up / no huddle towards the end of the game, he has put us in a position to win. At 25, he already has 10 career comeback wins…which would be more if he’d always had a defense to help him out.
Why doesn’t he get a chance to control the offense from the huddle at times? He’s done it in the past, but why did they stop? Its just so frustrating to see him get misused the way he has been. Then, when he goes to wherever he goes next year and looks good, its going to be even more pile on Josh about, “he let us down cause he could never get it straight in Tampa.”
Also, one more thing. If i remember correctly, Schiano was our 2nd choice…maybe even 3rd.
Give me Bisaccia as a HC and Lovie as a DC. This off season, i would’ve liked to get Turner as the OC, but its highly doubtful that he makes a lateral move at this point in his career. With those 2 in place, I would be OK with looking to college to find what you might feel is a diamond in a rough HC that might be looking to be an OC in the NFL.
September 30th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
@mvermulm…
Welcome to the board. I agree with your response. Of course Schiano wants to take shots down the field…every QB does but the object of the game is to take what the defense gives you and that requires a QB who can make accurate short to intermediate throws and go through his progressions. Glennon seems to be good at that. He’ll only get better.
Right now the offensive line is suspect and V-Jax acts like if the ball is contested then the DB can have it. I know he’s playing hurt but it ticked me off the way he just let Peterson take that pass without trying to strip the ball or knock it down.
Anybody who thinks Schiano sabotaged Freeman probably thinks the Government blew up the Twin Towers. Just stupid..
September 30th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Couch-
Played 3rd worst team in the league.
How’d “winning with Glennon” turn out?
Lol
September 30th, 2013 at 6:22 pm
O-line is playing, like they want to get the coach fired!
October 1st, 2013 at 2:16 am
MakaEVILTheDon Says:
September 30th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
TTC,
Don’t take it so hard bro.
Play by the rules and you won’t get burned.
PS: Real trolls don’t cry to the mods.
__________________________________________________________
Hey MakaEVIL, I dont take it nearly as hard as you do up your privates. Whats with the infatuation with my situation woman?? How do I know youre a woman, well a real doesnt obsess over other men. Thats a female trait. 😉