“Weak-Minded” Bucs Doomed Raheem
January 4th, 2012
Apparently channeling years of training as a social worker, Bucs beat writer Stephen Holder says some young, key Buccaneers lacked the mental capacity to handle adversity last season.
Holder offered his take during a live chat today for his employer, TampaBay.com.
Comment From PherbPherb: What do you make of talking heads like Shaun King saying Raheem go screwed? Shouldn’t it be obvious that his team quit on him and that’s all on the head coach?
Stephen F. Holder: Yes, the team seemed to quit and it’s his job to get thru to them. BUT, I think the makeup of the team is a reason they quit on him. In other words, you had SOME young and weak-minded players who didn’t respond well when the pressure got turned up. Last year, there was no pressure and they were winning. Everyone gets lifted by the high tide, you know? But this year, things got sticky and guys didn’t respond. A lot of those young guys had never been tested like that.
Joe interprets Holder’s take as essentially blaming a poor screening process, aka rockstar general manager Mark Dominik, for leading to mental weaklings landing on Raheem’s roster in key positions. And these softies caved under pressure.
Wow. Joe’s heard it all now.
The Bucs routinely came out in games outschemed before the opening whistle, often defeated and deflated only minutes into the game. For Joe, that was a complete failure of coaching, from motivation to preparation.
Somehow, in 2010, young Buccaneers stepped up in key roles, routinely while trailing in pressure fourth-quarter situations. How many rookies made starts in 2010? Hats off to Raheem and his staff for that. But in 2011 the team was allegedly infested with weak-minded players?
Joe doesn’t get why it’s so hard to just call the last 10 games what they were: a collosal, historic failure by the coaching staff.
January 4th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Holder is a tool. But he has that “American Dad”, making him a favorite guest appearance for the talking heads which garners him a lot of air time. Too bad he rarely has anything insightful to say
January 4th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
Edit: …has that “American Dad” chin
January 4th, 2012 at 4:26 pm
“Joe doesn’t get why it’s so hard to just call the last 10 games what they were: a collosal, historic failure by the coaching staff.”
EXACTLY
The halftime adjustments and comeback wins got praise last year but many people did say they have to start better or it will catch up to them.
They never once showed any progress as a coaching staff in getting prepared for games.
January 4th, 2012 at 4:28 pm
@Joe,
In theory, I agree with you. However, I think you may be spinning things a little. I believe there is a lot of validity in what Holder is saying. As I said in an earlier post, athletes respond differently to tough times. Some quit, some try to do too much (covering for everyone else), others become extra selfish (trying to get their stats), others blame their coaches and/or teammates. To me that’s not a character flaw as much as a normal response by young players (who are not used to such adversity). Most of these guys never went through 10 game losing streaks in high school and college (as most are from high-profile, winning programs), so they are simply not used to it. This is the danger in going so young (although it would probably still happen to a more veteran group, just not as bad). It just kind of bit us in the arse this year, and Raheem (although primarily responsible for the adversity) took the fall for it.
January 4th, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Well I guess with the new coach handpicked by Dom if the coaching is bad it willl be on him next time.
I sure hope your right Mr. Joe.
Coaching v. talent is an age old debate in these parts, prior to 96. Looking back it was a good share of deficiency in both components.
January 4th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Sabatoged, weak-minded, young, whatever; let me know how Raheem’s next coaching job turns out?
January 4th, 2012 at 5:13 pm
I don’t care who is on your roster, when the game is over before the 1st quarter ends and you can’t be competive, thats on the coaches. When we get to week 14, and the coach finaly comes out and says we are going to have tough practices and hold guys accountable… that a joke. The colts have a worse roster than we do and they were competitive in 14 out of 16 games. We looked like a college team. I know we have a better roster than the broncos and panthers ect…
January 4th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Shaun King is not giving Rah his share of the failure.
But Joe isn’t giving Dom his fair share.
The truth is somewhere in between – I think Holder is right.
Young players who never dealt with this adversity and the lack of veteran leadership to keep everyone on track are a big reason why our season snowballed the way it did.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
Explain to me why Dominik is a “rockstar” please. The only reason he didn’t get thrown to the curb Monday with Rah is because the Glazer’s just reupped him last year with that new contract. If they get a name coach in here calling the shots he will be gone or he’ll be relegated to being in charge of the salary cap and that’s it. Joe(s) why do you carry a torch for this guy? He sucks.
And please just drop the “rockstar” adjective please. It’s embarrassing.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Dom lost my respect when during this epic tailspin he chose to not issue any kind of statement at all on the state of the franchise. When we were ballin and everyone had high expectations we never went a week without Dominik telling us how great he is.
This is my last year of patience with McCoy and that draft class. Looking at the 09 class with Free, Roy Miller, Biggers, etc sucks. Dom is horrible at evaluating pro talent, and even worse when it comes to picking coaches. God I hope we don’t hire Mike Sherman.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:12 pm
Joe,
You are really tripping. You aren’t giving Dom ANY of the blame. I’m starting to think you are employed by him….seriously!
January 4th, 2012 at 6:16 pm
It is strictly the responsibility of the head coach and his coaching staff to make sure the players are mentally and physically ready to play. Period
January 4th, 2012 at 6:20 pm
Joe,
Why the continual sniffing of Dom’s panties? I just dont get it.
Clearly Dom has acquired some weak-minded (Talib) and weak-physically (GMC) players. The signs were there on GMC with his embarrassing bench performance at the combine.
The strongest argument that anyone can make is that Rah’s horrible coaching made it difficult to separate bad players from bad coaching. There is no way possible to argue that Dom has done an adequate job (much less rockstar level).
I am not the only one (see above) who sees your bias to protect Dom which started a while back. No gm with a 17-31 record, no playoffs and no pro bowlers is a rockstar.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
Let’s rename the blog:
Joedomfan.com
January 4th, 2012 at 6:21 pm
BucFanFromLA:
Joe has written this countless times before — countless. Mistake No. 1, probably the most critical for the defense, was Dominik letting Barrett Ruud walk.
Second, Dominik let Cadillac walk was another mistake. And yes, Joe wrote about that as well.
Third, Joe called out Dominik from Day 1 when he was hard-selling The Great Lumpkin last summer. How many local talking heads were lapping up the The Great Lumpkin Kool-Aid then? Hell, Joe even took heat for mocking the move last summer.
And Joe thought the Quincy Black signing was akin to lighting $100 dollar bills on fire.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
Thomas:
LOL. Talib’s acquisition happened on Chucky’s watch.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:23 pm
The logo can be that picture of Dom we often see with that huge pimple and we can banner the Clayton, Black, Ward contracts on the page!
January 4th, 2012 at 6:25 pm
Obviously, I meant retained him after his 2011 shooting where the consensus was that he should be released. Dom chose to bring him back which added another weak-minded player to our weak-minded team.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
GMC= 8th highest paid player in NFL
GMC not even top 80???
Nice job Dom, you stink!!!!
January 4th, 2012 at 6:30 pm
Getting an NFL team motivated and prepared to play on Sunday’s has very little to do with the GM. Good coaches will at least have a team playing hard even if the talent level isn’t what it should be. This team was NEVER ready to play and the players themselves knew this coming into these games. The lack of simple game planning was obvious and the system they were trying to impliment really wasn’t a system at all. From the time Morris took over this team fell behind the moment the whistle blew. If it were not for Freeman last year and his last minute comebacks; we would have suffered a similar outcome then as well. The actual talent level on this team is up for debate, but the fact that this team was never motivated nor prepared is only on one person. Morris!
January 4th, 2012 at 6:31 pm
RIs_Buc:
Don’t just parrot the haters, do a little homework. This gibberish the Bucs don’t have veterans is pure nonsense.
Hell, the entire front line is veteran. The entire secondary was veteran players. K2 has been around how many years? Spurlock is a veteran. You may also be able to classify Geno Hayes and Quincy Black as veterans. How long has Black been in the NFL, four years?
What, should the Bucs re-sign Stylez White so he can show the young defensive line what strip clubs allow patrons to fire up cigars?
January 4th, 2012 at 6:34 pm
Thomas:
What, no love for Mike Nugent?
January 4th, 2012 at 6:37 pm
Judgement Day for DOM THIS OFFSEASON, Sh%* or get off the pot, Buster.
Bring in some FA’s, and some good ones.
Draft well too.
No more mistakes. The past 3 years were nothing but a mirage.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:38 pm
LOL JOE,
Why not have the picture cropped around a Hayneswurf Silloute Backround.
Another great DOM Move.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:44 pm
stevek:
What if the family who employs you says “no?”
Dominik got reupped for four years. That tells Joe Team Glazer is happy with his job performance.
January 4th, 2012 at 6:45 pm
Joe: What, no love for Mike Nugent?
He’s one of my favorite FA acquisitions Dom made by the way! 🙂
January 4th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
Joe Says:
January 4th, 2012 at 6:44 pm
stevek:
Judgement Day for DOM THIS OFFSEASON, Sh%* or get off the pot, Buster.
Bring in some FA’s, and some good ones.
What if the family who employs you says “no?”
Dominik got reupped for four years. That tells Joe Team Glazer is happy with his job performance.
DOM WOULD BE TOAST IF HE WAS GM FOR THE MANCHESTER UNITED!
January 4th, 2012 at 7:06 pm
Yea ran off Matt Bryant for tht puke.. Raheem is gone let make him a memory He sucked so does Dominik kets see if a new coach has him neutered
January 4th, 2012 at 7:21 pm
Gruden drafted Dexter Jackson out of ap state 2nd round pick wtf he drafter Talib when Jenkins was in his back yard enough said about the background check walk up the street and see 4 yourself
January 4th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
When the new coaching staff comes in and the team hits the field next season with the D-line healthy I’m going to laugh my ass off as I read all the posts about…”Wow! Guess I was wrong about Dom….he is a rockstar!” You guys are doing what nobody else who knows true talent is doing….underestimating the talent level that is on this team. Bring in the right coaches and a little depth at DT and our D-line won’t just be good, it will be the best in our division. That’s right…Bowers, Clayborne, Price and McCoy=DOMINANT. Now…without new LB’s and some DB help that won’t mean a whole lot, but we’ll get that help.
January 4th, 2012 at 7:38 pm
The acid test will be if Dom hires Mike Sherman and Joe says “we have to trust him”.
January 4th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
Bobby who did you get the stuff from Jeremy Stephens Mc Coy = Glass joe fragile as a prom queen soft as pillsbury
January 4th, 2012 at 7:44 pm
I think the worst thing about Mike Sherman is probably his personality.
He reminds me a lot of Wade Philips. Decent in the NFL Wins column, but a statue on the sideline, no fire, no personality.
January 4th, 2012 at 7:56 pm
Sandbagr, good one, Chucky will never live down the Dexter Jackson pick.
January 4th, 2012 at 7:59 pm
Goodness knows if the Glazer Boys are satisfied with Dom he must be outstanding.
January 4th, 2012 at 8:08 pm
eric:
Joe can say now, that would be a “no.”
January 4th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
do people honestly believe that raheem had no say over the players on his roster? a would bet big money that he pushed hard for quincy black and aqib talib to stay on the team.
January 4th, 2012 at 8:35 pm
Odd that many of these weak minded players were team captains on major college teams…isn’t that a key feature in the draft strategy….
January 4th, 2012 at 9:18 pm
A bucs accountant came into my brothers bank today to deposit money for the team and told him they are looking for an offensive coach specifically. Je also said Brian billick is on the radar. Then when he talked about free agency, he said that they will go after FA and if Frank Gore isnt resigned with the Niners that he will be a top priority on the bucs list. He also said that most of the LB’s and Secondary will be gone too. Just wanted to everyone know….
January 4th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
Believe it when I see it.
January 4th, 2012 at 9:56 pm
I think the worst thing about Mike Sherman is probably his personality.
He reminds me a lot of Wade Philips. Decent in the NFL Wins column, but a statue on the sideline, no fire, no personality. ————–————————– Bill Belicheck
January 4th, 2012 at 9:59 pm
@Clayburn94
I agree. But we should of course keep Foster, and keep Geno Hayes for depth.
Marinelli traded for Gaines Adams, maybe he’ll want Quincy Black. Let’s try it.
January 4th, 2012 at 10:17 pm
Wouldn’t it be fair to say that all parts of the organization did their fair share to create one of the more memorable cluster****s in recent pro sports history? From the Modular Home Emperors, the Glazers, all the way down to the GED-aspiring concession vendors; they all grossly underachieved.
Can we all please regroup and refocus our efforts on complaining about the next chapter of community-spirit crushing greed that the Glazers are formulating?
January 4th, 2012 at 11:30 pm
How dare this man place any more than 15% of the blame on Joe’s BFF???
January 5th, 2012 at 3:14 am
“Joe doesn’t get why it’s so hard to just call the last 10 games what they were: a collosal, historic failure by the coaching staff.”
That would be true, but only a partial truth. The last 10 games of the year could also be called an absolute disgrace for professional, millionaire, athlete entertainers. Yeah, those guys on the field getting paid to perform. I’ve read several places where former players have said we shouldn’t say players “quit” because we don’t know their mentality, what they were thinking. Well, that makes it worse. Because if they didn’t quit and that’s how they played then these guys are horrible players. It’d almost be better if the DID quit, at least then there may be hope they could play better.
The last 10 games were a collapse by all aspects of the team…. from coaches down. I can’t blame Dom mid-season, because you can’t replace starters with scrap heap players all year long with much success. He did ok with that last year, but doing it again would be asking too much.
January 5th, 2012 at 4:23 am
Dominick is fine by me has not had a worthless draft yet, Raheem was a young coach and he tried to do too much also he didnt separate himself from players probably will be better with another team
January 5th, 2012 at 10:02 am
“Dominik got reupped for four years. That tells Joe Team Glazer is happy with his job performance.”
Well with that logic then the Glazers must have been thrilled with Gruden & Allen since they both got reupped the year before they got fired as well.
January 5th, 2012 at 10:19 am
Dom got extended before the 10 game collapse. I don’t think Dom is quite as safe as some might think. The Glazers were happy with him, but I don’t believe they are so much now. Joel said all options are open and nothing is off the table. I would guess that Mark Dominick is on very thin ice, possibly even cracked ice. Time will tell as this unfolds. Raheem displayed more leadership in recent weeks that the Glazers and Dominick combined. While they were all dug in and hiding for cover, Raheem was on the front lines taking all the heat, and never ran from anything. Some of Raheem’s answers left a little to be desired, but he was always front and center, putting on a happy face. If nothing else I have to admire the guy for that. I would have had much more respect for Mark Dominick if he would came out of hiding a month ago and answered a few questions as well. He let Raheem take all the wrath, and that BS excuse Dom gave that he has been locked in his office evaluating and studying all the bad plays was just that, BS. I don’t doubt Dom’s drafting skills, but everything else leaves a little to be desired. Dom made several really bad decisions to start the season, and I’m still not a Ruud fan, but he could have signed another veteran to replace him. Thin freaking ice, very.
January 5th, 2012 at 11:24 am
@Joe,
while we may have veterans (youngest team in the NFL btw) that doesnt mean we have vet leadership. There are a couple on Offense (specifically on the O-line), but even Ronde is more of a lead by example guy.
Need more proof?
– The guy who helped get the Bucs defense organized this offseason, was a practice player we got from the Pats.
January 5th, 2012 at 12:06 pm
Obviously what the Glazers were thinking was “Why are we underperforming with the talent that we have on this roster??” The answer was “They are not being coached properly. This entire staff is NOT getting the most out of these players.” They believed in the talent but they didn’t believe in the offensive and defensive schemes that were being implemented.
I would come to that same conclusion. You go 10-6 last year, you beat Atlanta and New Orleans this year while starting out 4-2 and then the entire thing just collapses?? Did the talent just suddenly disappear or was there never any talent to begin with… Maybe Atlanta and New Orleans just laid down on us but decided to play tough against everyone else on their way to the playoffs… NO. The talent is there..it just needs to be coached and we need a staff that can game plan AND make adjustments. You will see different results next year but don’t expect the playoffs. These kids have to learn a brand new system and they are still the youngest team in the NFL. Even bringing in FA’s…they still have to learn a new system too. Give it a couple years and we’ll be fighting for the division title every year.