Lockout Is History — For The Moment
April 25th, 2011
Is this bye-bye Talib?
Exciting news on the NFL lockout front, if there is such a thing. The fancy federal judge presiding over the case has lifted the lockout this evening, essentially ruling in favor of the players, so reports Mike Florio, of ProFootballTalk.com.
The NFL reportedly will seek an immediate stay of the implementation of the decision.
If the stay is granted, the lockout would not be lifted until, at the earliest, after the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit issues a ruling in the case. The players surely would request expedited consideration of the appeal.
If Judge Nelson refuses to grant the stay, the NFL surely would seek a stay from the appeals court.
If neither court gives the league the stay, the doors will be forced open, soon.
Joe has no clue how long it might take for a stay to take effect. Does this mean free agency starts now?
So if Rick Stroud and Stephen Holder of the St. Pete Times are to be believed, is Aqib Talib getting cut tonight?
Will Barrett Ruud have another team?
UPDATE: 7:31 p.m. – Heartwarming and exciting news for fans, per ProFootballTalk.com. Read a great paragraph from the judge’s ruling here. Maybe this mess really will be settled sooner rather than later.
UPDATE 9:35 p.m.: For the legal types out there, here is the 89-page decision by Judge Nelson.
April 25th, 2011 at 6:20 pm
wow, awesome. let’s hope it at least lasts through the draft
April 25th, 2011 at 6:40 pm
I’m not sure if I’m a player that I’m packing my bags for camp yet. Seems there’s going to have to be a ruling on the stay before it’s worth showing up. Until then the lock out may still have an effect.
April 25th, 2011 at 6:50 pm
Not necissarily TrueBlue, If you read the article on PFT after this one Joe mentions, they mention that their is no documentation that would allow a stay. They mention that because that is not in the document, they might have to request Judge Doty to reword the end of her 89 page report to allow a Stay. Cool thing is that some of the PFT reporters are lawyers, so they understand a good portion of this mumbo jumbo :).
April 25th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Aqib is staying!!!!!!!!! if he isent but by friday.. my boy is a buccaneer.. sticking up for someone who beat and raped his siter isent that bad.. according to him he didnt even shoot 😀
April 25th, 2011 at 7:00 pm
Cut**
April 25th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
Hope you’re right bleeder. But if the NFL is actively trying to get a stay, a player would have to be checking with his agent or waiting for a phone call from the team. I just want to see these guys sweatin out some practices. Next season could be a lot of fun if they get ready.
April 25th, 2011 at 7:19 pm
I wouldn’t look for too many signings this week. Possibly a trade or two for draft choices, but that’s about it. I hope the team takes advantage of this time to contact all players (since the lockout is lifted, there is no ban on talking to players) and find out how their off-season work is coming along. Check in with those recovering from injury and make sure rehab is on schedule.
Where this could hurt the Bucs is the draft was the ONLY way for some teams to acquire a QB this off-season while a lockout was in place. That was pushing more QBs into the first round, and possibly ahead of some DEs the Bucs could be looking into. Now that teams can trade for guys like Kolb or Josh Johnson, there may be fewer teams needing to draft that QB.
Difficult situation for the NFL, because any activity could be subject to anti-trust suits and penalties, but if there is a complete lack of activity it can be considered collusion and also subject to anti-trust suits and penalties. NFL would be smart to make sure a couple moves take place, and that all teams contacts their players, while making sure not to do too much that could put the NFL at risk.
April 25th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
I was thinking it would be lifted for the draft. Now teams should be able to workout proper trades.
April 25th, 2011 at 8:47 pm
OMG, is there any proof that Talib did anything wrong?!? ANY? If we’re not sure, then why the hell would we do something so stupid by cutting him tonight?!?!
Oh well, if the Bucs are ready to rid themselves of their star defensive player just like that, they better have a plan to get Asomougha! Or else you can forget about the playoffs next year with that hard schedule we have. I don’t want to see E.J. Biggers going against Calvin Johnson, DeSean Jackson, Miles Austin, or many of the other elite receivers our defense faces next year.
Thank god Ronde didn’t retire!
April 25th, 2011 at 9:15 pm
“OMG, is there any proof that Talib did anything wrong?!? ANY? If we’re not sure, then why the hell would we do something so stupid by cutting him tonight?!?!”
———-
That’s what I’m saying Patrick! I’ve asked that question on 4 separate posts, and have yet to get an answer. People are convicting him of this offense because of his prior history. There is absolutely zero proof that I have heard that he even used a gun (other than the word of Billings – questionable character at best). I’m with you, unless we got a great backup plan or some sort of proof I haven’t heard, it is idiotic to get rid of him for this incident.
April 25th, 2011 at 9:24 pm
I love Talib as a player but really think it is time for him to go. From failing drug test in School ,his fight at the rookie camp, hitting a teamate with his helmet , Cussing Morris out in 09 cussing Refs out in 10, punching taxi man. Maybe he was not the shooter but he was there we cant ignore his acts of anger and say he sure was not capable of doing this. Cut him Asap or dont be mad when some these young players know they have leverage to do anything against the law
April 25th, 2011 at 9:47 pm
TJ,
I respect your stance a whole lot more than people who are automatically convicting him on this case. The only thing I disagree with is that I don’t blame him for being there, it is his family. I am not going to blame anyone for coming to the defense of a family member. No matter the character of his sister or mother, they are still his family and I wouldn’t expect him to turn his back on them. Assuming he is not the shooter or didn’t even handle the gun (very big assumption I know), did he really do anything differently than any of us would have done in the same circumstance? I will say this, if anyone ever beats my sister, they better prepare for an epic beat down.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:15 pm
Has anyone read Goodell’s take in this action? Are you kidding me? Last I checked it was the owners that wanted more and locked the players out. He’s saying the entire landscape if football will change now and without a CBA that only the large market teams will compete every year and the small market teams are only going to farm clubs for the others. I don’t think the players are asking for no CBA. Goodell is the worse commissioner the NFL has ever had.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Oh and if there is no CBA according to Goodell nothing happens to Talib which this article is not about but the league could not touch him only the team themselves could discipline him if they choose.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
Hawaiian,
While I do understand what you’re saying, it really must be understood how long this has been going on. Apparently Saran (Talib’s sister) and Billings have been together since their days in Cleveland. It’s not like this just happened over the past year, and the guy just won’t let it go. There were apparently (and I don’t have details, so don’t know number of times) multiple incidences of abuse (which means that there was continued contact after the first incident). There was a restraining order in place after the last incident. Saran had obviously been in contact with him, as he prevented her from calling 911 as one of the charges against him.
At what point do you, as a family member, say to your sister that you’ll be there for her as her brother anytime, but if she continues to make bad choices in this regard, you can’t continue to bail her out? Seriously, even with family, there has to be a limit of how much you can do and how far you’ll go. Bringing a loaded weapon to a confrontation, in my book, is going beyond that limit.
I don’t believe Billings statements on their own. I do believe the police must have had more to go on than just his statement to issue the warrant and file charges. It was apparently about a week between the incident and the filing of charges, which means the police did their due diligence and still found probably cause to file charges.
I will not say Aqib is “guilty” as nothing has been proven to this point. I will say I’ve seen many “guilty” people go free as “innocent” simply due to lack of evidence, a clerical error, or enough money to buy your way out (whether that be paying for witnesses, bribing the right people, or whatever). So, it’s difficult to say (no matter what the courts come up with) whether he’s innocent or guilty. That’s how muddled things have become in this day and age.
Adam “PacMan” Jones was not ever found “guilty” of anything illegal, he was just in the vicinity of some very serious incidences (including a shooting) one too many times and the NFL suspended him for a year. Ben Rothlisberger had all charges dropped, yet he was suspended 6 games (later reduced to 4). There will (in all likelihood) be a suspension in this case. It will be the second suspension, meaning any single incident to follow will result in an indefinite suspension requiring petition and reinstatement to the league. He has simply become too high a risk, regardless of skill. It is the wrong message to send to the locker room. It’s time for him to move on. He may have great success somewhere else and that will be too bad for the Bucs to have lost that talent, but what is gained in team unity and character is much greater.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:30 pm
The problem isn’t so much he’s guilty of this crime. He has a repeated history of violent behaviors that aren’t being corrected that make the team look bad and could potentially incur the wrath of Goodell. Every season he’s hit someone. First a teammate in practice, next a cabbie in the back of the head, now pistol-whipping a deserving lowlife. Lets not forget almost assaulting a referee after a game. Regardless of whether he was justified this time or not, his penchant for violence is a liability.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Brad,
What Goodell and the league are saying is that the players are saying the draft is “illegal” and the players should be able to come out of college and pick which team they wish to play for. Combine that with players saying the Salary Cap is restricting their earnings and should be eliminated (and very likely could win that if they win this case) and then you have teams with money buying the best players out of college. And of course, the players say that the Free Agency market has too many restrictions and it should be an unrestricted free agent market… now you’ve got teams with the most cash buying all the top talent and the only competitive teams are the ones willing to spend the most. Every other team won’t be able to compete, and will only be there to groom players until they’re good enough for the big money teams to come and take them away in unrestricted free agency. The competitive edge of the NFL over other sports will be totally wiped out in one fell swoop. The players will get their high payroll until people quit watching because they’re tired of seeing the Cowboys face the Patriots every year and the whole thing falls apart as everyone is now watching hockey, basketball or baseball. The advantage the NFL has is in the competition. That’s why college football has limited scholarships for division I schools. It spreads the talent out and makes everyone more competitive. I may have to stick solely to college football and basketball if this goes the way it’s currently headed.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
Fine if everyone wants to due away with Talib so be it but please believe as much as I do like EJ he cant cover the WRs were playing this season. If Talib is out someone of equal talent will have to be brought in if we want to continue to improve on our already subpar defense
April 25th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
Exactly guys supporting Aqib Talib… I’ve posted the links about an ex cop witnessing the incident and saying Talib never had a gun, the only gun found at the crime scene was Billings gun. Bucs release him for that, than I’m not renewing season tickets to watch teams spread us out and dominate us.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:54 pm
Bam Bam,
Great post, I got you. I know it comes across as if I am defending him, but it is more so I just want to learn more before I judge. I totally understand all of your points, and if I was a a betting man I would probably bet on the side that Talib is in some way guilty on this incident too. If he is, then I am definitely on the side of him being cut or traded. However, I just want to wait until all the facts are in. There is no rush, we might not even have a season next year.
I have no idea how much evidence is required in order to file charges against someone. I agree that it seems like it may require more than just the word of a convicted felon. I would just like to hear that evidence for myself before I pass judgment.
I definitely agree with you that he should tell his sister to leave the guy alone, but I’m not sure I agree that he should at any point not help her. Regardless of how bad a decision they make, they are still family and your natural instinct is to protect them. There is no doubt that his sister and mother are to blame for the current trouble he is in. Their poor decisions have gotten him in hot water. For that (and only that) I feel sorry for him.
Pacman and Big Ben are very good analogies. However, I just don’t see much evidence of any wrongdoing in this case to warrant a suspension. if it is proven he never even touched a gun, how can they suspend him? That is not being not guilty, that is being innocent. As you stated, there is a difference. In my opinion, his entire career with the Bucs really comes down to what REALLY happened that day. I just hope the organization makes the right decision. I will support the team regardless.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:06 am
Joe. do you have any sources regarding if bucs players will show up tomorrow. im eager to know which players do.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:38 am
Gavster:
Joe sent some texts out but as of yet heard nothing.
Joe’s holding his breath. Any moment, the 8th Circuit could give the owners a stay. As far as Joe can tell, this ruling is little more than foreplay.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:58 am
Don’t be so sure about that, Joe. From what I’ve been hearing, the way Judge Nelson wrote this up, there is a very good chance that the injunction will stick. If you’re holding your breath, your face might turn blue pretty before anything happens here.
April 26th, 2011 at 1:07 am
If Talib gets released, we’re in big trouble. Period
April 26th, 2011 at 1:21 am
Hawaiian Buc:
We are talking two different animals and Joe is not sure why people can’t see the difference.
Roger Goodell does not, never had to have, evidence that results in a conviction to suspend Talib. Was Tanard Jackson convicted of a crime? No he was not. Hell, Jackson wasn’t even charged with anything. Talib cannot brag as much.
People also seem to forget that, while there may be witnesses claiming Talib didn’t shoot a gun, what of the evidence of the victim’s face that Talib tried to pistol whip?
No matter the motives, there was a hassle that involved police, a gun, and probably physical violence with Talib being charged and arrested.
This is ample ammunition for Goodell to spank him for multiple games no matter what a jury decides.
Remember, Talib is a repeat offender in the court of Roger Goodell.
This is 2011 and not 1874 and Dodge City. Talib — who the Bucs specficially and the NFL in general are paying seven-figures of salary to — is supposed to act somewhat like a professional and not like a cowboy of the 19th century.
April 26th, 2011 at 1:30 am
How on Earth did the Bucs manage to somehow win three of four games — including a victory over the Super Bowl champions in their house — without God’s gift to a secondary in uniform?
Man, people act like Talib is Deion Sanders.
If Talib gets released or traded, there is only one person to blame: Talib.
April 26th, 2011 at 5:10 am
Joe,
I haven’t heard about Billing’s face and evidence of being pistol whipped. That’s the type of evidence I have been asking people to provide. If Talib used the gun as a weapon in any way, then I’m right there with you and everyone else that he needs to be gone.
I understand that the warden does what he wants, and I’m not doubting that he is going to suspend Talib. I just don’t think it’s fair if Talib never used a gun. But yeah, you are right, that probably won’t stop him.
April 26th, 2011 at 5:26 am
Patrick- quit running around in circles, saying the sky is falling! Talib has been guilty of so many things , and embarrassed this team so many times, that they are firing his sorry ass. There are thousands of people who can play CB In the NFL. The vast majority of them are much smarter than the idiot we are gonna fire. Relax. Talib is hurting this team a heck of a lot more than he’s helping it. We will be better of without him. Trust me. Remember last summer when you were so worried about Penn? The Bucs already have targeted a CB that will make you glad they fired Talib. It would be an improvement even if Talib wasn’t an idiot, cause this guy is better than Talib will ever be!
April 26th, 2011 at 5:59 am
Joe- you are exactly right! It’s even more irritating to me because the guy actually was blessed with some talent. He’s thrown away what many men work hard for, and never achieve.its sicken to see a young millionaire throw it all away, to be an idiotic thug!! He’ll end up in prison, which is exactly where he’s working to be. Just a pathetic waste of a gift from god!
April 26th, 2011 at 7:04 am
I love talib as muchas anyone but if we have toget rid of him so be it. He is a ball hawker but he kinda alsocaused a lot of big playsfor the opponent by gambling. Idk it’s not that hard to replace a cornerback.
April 26th, 2011 at 7:05 am
Hawaiian Buc
Remember, Texas isn’t as open as Florida and some states. Just a hunch, but if the guy really did get pistol whipped, the cops took photos of the damage to the guy’s grill.
April 26th, 2011 at 7:17 am
I’m buying the fact that Talib will be punished in some way or another. I’m also buying that he’s responsible and he deserves punishment. I’m not buying that out of hand, he should be dishonorably discharged, even before the matter has been adjudicated. He still has value to the Bucs and to other NFL teams. Six games or even a years suspension is not a death sentence in a NFL career. Ed Reed made the Pro Bowl after missing 6 games. Without naming names, there are others, including jail sentences, that have found success in the NFL. What matters here is how the Bucs decide to politically (public opinion) deal with this situation.
April 26th, 2011 at 9:40 am
This all assuming Goodell still has a job when the dust settles. What I don’t understand is what do you mean Tanard was not charged or found guilty. I thought he tested positive with a drug test. I think this is way different than if Talib is not charged with anything. I’m hoping this is one of the issues the players are discussing with the CBA.
April 26th, 2011 at 9:55 am
Brad:
Feel free to link to a story or court record where Tanard Jackson was charged by the state of Florida with a drug crime and found guilty or entered a plea of guilty. If so this is all news to Joe.